Cummings and goings...
Discussion
Electro1980 said:
The international comparisons are meaningless. They have all sorts of fiddling and try and compare radically different systems of teaching. They rely on a set of standard international tests. China is well known to teach to that test, and only pick high performing private schools to take the test.
There is no evidence of exams getting easier. No evidence of “debasement” at all. Lots of evidence for teaching improving and children working harder.
The evidence is from the universities having to run remedial maths classes to compensate for the poorer GCSE/Alevel/whatever teaching/courses. Students were found to not have maths skills they used to get at the old A level system in the 60's and 70's.There is no evidence of exams getting easier. No evidence of “debasement” at all. Lots of evidence for teaching improving and children working harder.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
Edited by s2art on Friday 10th July 17:51
Jasandjules said:
Genuine question - how long does the full tender process take?s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.Tuna said:
Jasandjules said:
Genuine question - how long does the full tender process take?RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Genuine question - in our current circumstances how urgent is a contract to canvas public opinion on Brexit (or any other matter)?
The claim as I understand it was that the contract was to see what people's attitudes were to things like lockdown and pandemic response, which would be valid.The Guardian are claiming that other work was done.
Tuna said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Genuine question - in our current circumstances how urgent is a contract to canvas public opinion on Brexit (or any other matter)?
The claim as I understand it was that the contract was to see what people's attitudes were to things like lockdown and pandemic response, which would be valid.The Guardian are claiming that other work was done.
cirian75 said:
Tuna said:
Jasandjules said:
Genuine question - how long does the full tender process take?I've been involved in a few government tender processes and you would not believe the amount of paperwork, departments, meetings, sign-offs etc needed for what should be a very simple matter.
I do similar things in the private sector and it takes 10% of the time as you deal with people actually doing the work and don't want to mess around
Government contracts - most of the civil servants I've come across are just happy to pass things to another department if it gets it off their desk and don't give a toss about timescales or the amount of hours/pay being wasted.
Long story short, it would probably cost £840K and 6-months of red-tape and nonsense to tender the project if the usual processes are observed.
If the contract value was in the £millions, different story but for £840K might as well give it to someone who wants it and get them to start work now rather than pissing around for 6 months and giving it to someone who put in a bid of £100K less.
OzzyR1 said:
If the contract value was in the £millions, different story but for £840K might as well give it to someone who wants it and get them to start work now rather than pissing around for 6 months and giving it to someone who put in a bid of £100K less.
Maybe, but giving it their “mates” adds another dimension really doesn’t it?It is to avoid such corruptions (or the speculation / accusation of such) that lengthy and fair rendering processes exist.
markyb_lcy said:
Maybe, but giving it their “mates” adds another dimension really doesn’t it?
More sensible than giving it to complete strangers, isn't it?As mentioned early, there's the smell test. People want this to be bad, so you can look at it as a back hander to mates - that's a great narrative and it smells. Or it may be that having worked with people you know can do a good job, and needing to get the work done quickly, you select the trusted option rather than sticking a pin in yellow pages, or spending nine months waiting for the tender process to be completed. Different perspective. Apply the smell test to some of the Guardian's reporting and it could be the odour comes from them.
Dunno. Both sides reach straight for the narrative that fits their preconceptions and holds their noses at the appropriate time.
Tuna said:
markyb_lcy said:
Maybe, but giving it their “mates” adds another dimension really doesn’t it?
More sensible than giving it to complete strangers, isn't it?As mentioned early, there's the smell test. People want this to be bad, so you can look at it as a back hander to mates - that's a great narrative and it smells. Or it may be that having worked with people you know can do a good job, and needing to get the work done quickly, you select the trusted option rather than sticking a pin in yellow pages, or spending nine months waiting for the tender process to be completed. Different perspective. Apply the smell test to some of the Guardian's reporting and it could be the odour comes from them.
Dunno. Both sides reach straight for the narrative that fits their preconceptions and holds their noses at the appropriate time.
I tend to think that with govts and humans generally that if a process is open to corruption, then at one time or another it will be corrupted. Whether this is absolutely the case here or not... probably nobody here can assert with any real authority.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Tuna said:
More sensible than giving it to complete strangers, isn't it?
Can you foresee any potential issue in awarding high value contracts, paid for by public money, without tender, to people you are known to be friendly with?If those firms are good (and they might be your mates because you've worked together successfully for years), no.
Quite often the timescale doesn't allow for a full tender process, especially to Govt requirements as the result is needed in less than 2 years time!
If something is needed quickly, absolutely no issues awarding a contract without tender, pubic money or not, I might be friends with the owner of the firm, but that is because he has given us the results we need in the past, when we need them.
If he hadn't, we probably wouldn't be friends anymore.
If you can't understand that, fair enough but thats why the private sector is already on site while the Government is still deciding on the wording of it's OJEU invitation.
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
That isn’t new.
My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.
Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.
Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
Starfighter said:
That isn’t new.
My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.
Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
The rot had already set in by the late 80's. I still socialise occasionally with my old A level math teacher, he agrees that a lot of stuff got dumbed down when they changed the curriculum and criteria in the 70's. In his day, first you got your degree in maths (or whatever) then you did teacher training. Then, as he put it, someone waved a magic wand and removed the requirement to do a subject degree first. Just teachers training college was enough. The grammar school I went to insisted that their teachers had a suitable (degree level) qualification in the subject they taught.My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.
Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
robemcdonald said:
I haven’t re every single post on this, but has anyone either read the article or looked at the company in question?
I have a genuine question (and no it’s got nowt to do with sea lions either)
Why would focus groups on brexit be so essential as to bypass the tender process?
Because it's the political equivalent of catnip to this lot.I have a genuine question (and no it’s got nowt to do with sea lions either)
Why would focus groups on brexit be so essential as to bypass the tender process?
Hence the mental gymnastics to make handing over close to a million quid outside of the usual tendering processes acceptable.
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