Black Lives Matter - Who are they?
Discussion
Following the recent rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, I thought I would take a look at who is behind them and what they stand for. Do people really understand them and are they really a dangerous hard left wing movement.
Taking a look at the wiki its run by 3 women and they have funding of over $100m, with a significant part from the Soros and Ford foundations. They also seem to associate with a significant number of hard left groups, with the open goal of de-funding the police!
My concerns are that the recent protests are also being used as a cover to try to bring down Trump in a very undemocratic way. (Regardless if you like him or not, its not the way to do things). Now in the UK it seems to be an aim to cause as much trouble as they can. Could this be an attempt to derail Brexit and also bring down the conservative government?
Anyone else genuinely concerned about this group as its seems to of gained incredible momentum with incidents of intense violence and vandalism which I think will only get worse. I'm all for equality and I think the UK is one of the most equal places in the world and I don't see what else we can do to be more equal, so what will riots and demonstrations really achieve?
My gut tells me its the hard left in action, leveraging a nasty incident in the USA and gaining a momentum that really doesn't have good intentions at heart.
Taking a look at the wiki its run by 3 women and they have funding of over $100m, with a significant part from the Soros and Ford foundations. They also seem to associate with a significant number of hard left groups, with the open goal of de-funding the police!
My concerns are that the recent protests are also being used as a cover to try to bring down Trump in a very undemocratic way. (Regardless if you like him or not, its not the way to do things). Now in the UK it seems to be an aim to cause as much trouble as they can. Could this be an attempt to derail Brexit and also bring down the conservative government?
Anyone else genuinely concerned about this group as its seems to of gained incredible momentum with incidents of intense violence and vandalism which I think will only get worse. I'm all for equality and I think the UK is one of the most equal places in the world and I don't see what else we can do to be more equal, so what will riots and demonstrations really achieve?
My gut tells me its the hard left in action, leveraging a nasty incident in the USA and gaining a momentum that really doesn't have good intentions at heart.
I fully and completely support their primary cause of campaigning against systemic racism towards black people. However, that does not require the adoption of Marxist ideals which is what they appear to also advocate.
There are certainly questions to be answered regarding some of their inspiration however that doesn’t detract from their current focus which is wholly valid, worthwhile and necessary.
There are certainly questions to be answered regarding some of their inspiration however that doesn’t detract from their current focus which is wholly valid, worthwhile and necessary.
MrBarry123 said:
I fully and completely support their primary cause of campaigning against systemic racism towards black people. However, that does not require the adoption of Marxist ideals which is what they appear to also advocate.
There are certainly questions to be answered regarding some of their inspiration however that doesn’t detract from their current focus which is wholly valid, worthwhile and necessary.
The problem is that it's not just about ending racism. Their UK site openly states they want to end capitalism and disband the police, which is something they should be challenged on but people are too scared to do because they will be accused of being racist.There are certainly questions to be answered regarding some of their inspiration however that doesn’t detract from their current focus which is wholly valid, worthwhile and necessary.
This is the bit I don't understand. Extinction Rebellion and BLM's ostensible primary arguments are the type of argument that not many people can argue against. In fact it strikes me that they should be simple to promote and gain positive approval and lead to significant improvements.
But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
A Winner Is You said:
The problem is that it's not just about ending racism. Their UK site openly states they want to end capitalism and disband the police, which is something they should be challenged on but people are too scared to do because they will be accused of being racist.
I agree entirely.My current support for them is because they are helping to further a cause that needs furthering. Please don’t be in doubt that when their focus shifts to their other policies, which it will, my support for them will cease.
The sense in left-leaning British politics is being restored through the removal of Corbyn and his Momentum cronies and I’d be very disappointed if BLM allowed the far-left to creep back by exploiting anti-racism sentiment and creating the sense that only those opposed to capitalism can be considered to not be racist.
i4got said:
This is the bit I don't understand. Extinction Rebellion and BLM's ostensible primary arguments are the type of argument that not many people can argue against. In fact it strikes me that they should be simple to promote and gain positive approval and lead to significant improvements.
But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
You are assuming the palatable argument is their primary focus. Quite possible that the unpalatable goals are the primary drivers with the palatable goals just a useful cover. There may not be any infiltration going on. But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
Jinx said:
i4got said:
This is the bit I don't understand. Extinction Rebellion and BLM's ostensible primary arguments are the type of argument that not many people can argue against. In fact it strikes me that they should be simple to promote and gain positive approval and lead to significant improvements.
But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
You are assuming the palatable argument is their primary focus. Quite possible that the unpalatable goals are the primary drivers with the palatable goals just a useful cover. There may not be any infiltration going on. But time after time they allow themselves to be infiltrated by people who want to hijack their movements for their own purposes - generally the overthrow of capitalism. This in turn, turns the majority away from the primary message.
Surely if you actually believe in the primary motive for a movement you would not allow this to keep happening. It leads people, rightly or wrongly, to think that these movements are NOT grass roots movements who believe in their message and are in fact the same group of anarchists who search around for a cause on which to gain some leverage and support from well-meaning supporters.
Jinx said:
You are assuming the palatable argument is their primary focus. Quite possible that the unpalatable goals are the primary drivers with the palatable goals just a useful cover. There may not be any infiltration going on.
This is my concern- and incidentally the same applies to Extinction Rebellion; Trojan Horses, both organisations. They use the cover of a popular concept (racial equality, save the planet) to hide ludicrous policies designed to achieve system change.Don't be fooled; these are dangerous organisations exploiting the concerns of ordinary citizens.
Slightly off topic and very old but this by Muhammad Ali is topical. He was always the greatest.
Muhammad Ali: 'Why is everything white?' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5298860...
Muhammad Ali: 'Why is everything white?' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5298860...
Brave Fart said:
Jinx said:
You are assuming the palatable argument is their primary focus. Quite possible that the unpalatable goals are the primary drivers with the palatable goals just a useful cover. There may not be any infiltration going on.
This is my concern- and incidentally the same applies to Extinction Rebellion; Trojan Horses, both organisations. They use the cover of a popular concept (racial equality, save the planet) to hide ludicrous policies designed to achieve system change.Don't be fooled; these are dangerous organisations exploiting the concerns of ordinary citizens.
Brave Fart said:
Don't be fooled; these are dangerous organisations exploiting the concerns of ordinary citizens.
Which is an argument anyone can use for their ideological opposite. Momentum? UKIP? I think the BLM movement is very different in the US and UK, the banner is being used by a lot of people who are far far away even from the periphery of any kind of organisational power.
From this side of the Atlantic the police are pretty unrecognizable from the UK police force which still follows the police by consent philosophy and while I have no doubt that the UK has long standing racist issues (see the Windrush debacle) it feel like its orders of magnitude lower than the US. This is an opinion I am happy to be challenged on as I have no experience with the police or the lives of people in BAME communities and can only really base my opinions on the news and media from the two countries.
There seems to be an inherent bias to hold a group with opposite views to you to a higher standard than you would a group the represents your own views. Take Brexit, the EDL, and other groups/initiatives that have been discussed on PH. It would be easy to go after each of these in the same manner you would the BLM movement, and easy to group everyone as being the same rather than a collective of people with a loose aim to make life better for a certain demographic.
bad company said:
Slightly off topic and very old but this by Muhammad Ali is topical. He was always the greatest.
Muhammad Ali: 'Why is everything white?' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5298860...
Not seen that, thanks.Muhammad Ali: 'Why is everything white?' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5298860...
Eye opening really, I always thought ranting about black boards and baa baa ludicrous and actually still do but his comments about art depicting angels etc as all white struck a chord.
Also white angel cakes and brown devil cakes, words like blackmail, black op's etc showing an institutional negativity we have allowed to creep into our language, these things I would like to see addressed.
Four Litre said:
These are my thoughts entirely. My worry is that with the other organisations not working, they are using racism as the ultimate tool to block any challenge to their cause. People are literally terrified of being labelled a racist for speaking out or challenging any view. I think BLM have an ultimate goal in mind and its not what a lot of people think it is.
Agreed, and well expressed. I notice placards stating things like "silence is violence". It's all part of this narrative that "if you don't actively support us, you're against us" which leads to the view that any criticism of, say, BLM means that you're a racist. That's how they try to hide their anarchist agenda.The other day on Reddit, there was an Ask Me Anything with Kailee Scales - the Managing Director of Black Lives Matter (USA):
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gyzs79/i_am...
Her replies to most of the genuine questions are quite revealing.. Most answers come across as PR quotes with little actual substance..
Even with Reddit being a very liberal / left site largely supporting the movement, it didn't go down very well, particularly questions regarding where their millions of dollars in funding and donations actually ends up, or how they imagine a de-policed society would actually happen / work.....
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gyzs79/i_am...
Her replies to most of the genuine questions are quite revealing.. Most answers come across as PR quotes with little actual substance..
Even with Reddit being a very liberal / left site largely supporting the movement, it didn't go down very well, particularly questions regarding where their millions of dollars in funding and donations actually ends up, or how they imagine a de-policed society would actually happen / work.....
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