Black Lives Matter - Who are they?
Discussion
ReallyReallyGood said:
Blackmails origin has nothing to so with skin colour. Are you saying we should stop using words because it has the world ‘black’ in it? Are you insane?
Possibly, before watching the Ali clip I would have agreed with you, watching it set me to thinking how far we have allowed white=good black=bad creep into our everyday language.It's far better than it was, I recall chastising a 6 year old friend of my son for choosing who went first.
Ip Dip Dog s
t.when challenged he looked confused that I was cross with him and asked for an alternative, without thinking I fell back on my childhood 'eenie meenie minie mo' before realising what I was, innocently about to say.
There is power in language and yes I think that some of ours needs challenging.
Watch the clip.
Four Litre said:
My concerns are that the recent protests are also being used as a cover to try to bring down Trump in a very undemocratic way. (Regardless if you like him or not, its not the way to do things). Now in the UK it seems to be an aim to cause as much trouble as they can. Could this be an attempt to derail Brexit and also bring down the conservative government?
I suggested that last night on the statues thread, but it didn’t go down too well:https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
smithyithy said:
The other day on Reddit, there was an Ask Me Anything with Kailee Scales - the Managing Director of Black Lives Matter (USA):
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gyzs79/i_am...
Her replies to most of the genuine questions are quite revealing.. Most answers come across as PR quotes with little actual substance..
Even with Reddit being a very liberal / left site largely supporting the movement, it didn't go down very well, particularly questions regarding where their millions of dollars in funding and donations actually ends up, or how they imagine a de-policed society would actually happen / work.....
A lot of rather telling non-answers in that linkhttps://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gyzs79/i_am...
Her replies to most of the genuine questions are quite revealing.. Most answers come across as PR quotes with little actual substance..
Even with Reddit being a very liberal / left site largely supporting the movement, it didn't go down very well, particularly questions regarding where their millions of dollars in funding and donations actually ends up, or how they imagine a de-policed society would actually happen / work.....
minimoog said:
98elise said:
Is the intent to sack all the existing officers then replace them with another set of officers, only with a smaller budget?
Pretty much, yes. At least the officers who were problematic before get replaced. 98elise said:
Who does the police work while the new officers are trained? Who picked up the existing cases? From the outside it seems to be a monumental task with a multitude of problems to solve.
Indeed, but no-one said it would be easy. That didn't stop Camden, NJ doing it though, and it seems to have worked
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470135/new-polic...
BLM don't have a monopoly on anti-racism protesting. And over here in the UK, they just don't have the reach to draw out crowds as massive as they did at the weekend solely based on their own charter.
The protests for the last two weeks have been against institutionalised racism and police violence. The vast, VAST majority of people on these marches are there because they all agree that those two things are bad and worth some disruption to the status quo over. They will also broadly agree with the literal term "black lives matter". This doesn't mean anyone is necessarily exclusively trying to further the aims of BLM by being there.
BLM may be the figureheads or mouth piece of the crowd, but only because the crowd allows them to be so. In fact, its probably fair to say that BLM benefits hugely that so many people are naturally angry with the state of policing in minority communities that they are able to take a place at the front. The crowds aren't out because they feel sorry for the BLM campaigners and want to support them - they are out because the feel sorry for black people. The sentiment that has brought people out will be there regardless of any political hijacking of the BLM message, if that's something that occurs.
The protests for the last two weeks have been against institutionalised racism and police violence. The vast, VAST majority of people on these marches are there because they all agree that those two things are bad and worth some disruption to the status quo over. They will also broadly agree with the literal term "black lives matter". This doesn't mean anyone is necessarily exclusively trying to further the aims of BLM by being there.
BLM may be the figureheads or mouth piece of the crowd, but only because the crowd allows them to be so. In fact, its probably fair to say that BLM benefits hugely that so many people are naturally angry with the state of policing in minority communities that they are able to take a place at the front. The crowds aren't out because they feel sorry for the BLM campaigners and want to support them - they are out because the feel sorry for black people. The sentiment that has brought people out will be there regardless of any political hijacking of the BLM message, if that's something that occurs.
vikingaero said:
My question is this. What do BLM or those who support BLM want?
I'd argue as a 2nd gen immigrant that we are on the whole a pretty fair country with race laws and probably too much pro-discrimination. You will never change individuals views if they are rascists.
Are you south asian background, like me, or other ancestry? Reason I ask is that there seems to be a difference between the racism that black people face vs what other ethnicities might get. Also on the social ladder, non black ethnicities tend to do better (Asian doctors, IT folk etc) so their financial reach and social standing also has an impact on how they perceive or deal with prejudice.I'd argue as a 2nd gen immigrant that we are on the whole a pretty fair country with race laws and probably too much pro-discrimination. You will never change individuals views if they are rascists.
Four Litre said:
My concerns are that the recent protests are also being used as a cover to try to bring down Trump in a very undemocratic way. (Regardless if you like him or not, its not the way to do things). Now in the UK it seems to be an aim to cause as much trouble as they can. Could this be an attempt to derail Brexit and also bring down the conservative government?rt.
Also, can I ask - what is concerning or undemocratic about people protesting, or causing trouble as you say? Its a mass turn out of people who feel strongly about something that falls to the responsibility of the Administration. The aim, regardless of the context of any protest in history, is to put pressure on said Administration to listen to their concerns and either offer something up to appease, or take the risk that doing nothing harms them come the next election cycle and face longer civic unrest. Its basically the exact same thing that happens in back rooms every day in politics between corporate lobbyists and politicians, except that is fuelled simply by enormous reserves of cash. "Do something beneficial for us during your term, or else we'll fund your opponent next time round". But instead, protestors are using their voices, bodies, and rights as its the only thing that comes anywhere near money's ability to influence power (and still comes up well short). "Do something meaningful for us, or else we'll control the headlines for the next month".Trump - or any other leader who faces off against protestors - only have themselves to blame if they show their hand and make a situation worse, leading to the untenability of their position. After all, that's the only way a leader or government can be "brought down", like you fear.
vikingaero said:
My question is this. What do BLM or those who support BLM want?
I'd argue as a 2nd gen immigrant that we are on the whole a pretty fair country with race laws and probably too much pro-discrimination. You will never change individuals views if they are rascists.
One of their co founders of BLM Louisville wrote this list of demands:I'd argue as a 2nd gen immigrant that we are on the whole a pretty fair country with race laws and probably too much pro-discrimination. You will never change individuals views if they are rascists.
1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.
2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.
3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.
4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.
7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the f
k they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.
9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.
10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/
Jinx said:
You are assuming the palatable argument is their primary focus. Quite possible that the unpalatable goals are the primary drivers with the palatable goals just a useful cover. There may not be any infiltration going on.
Yep Same way that greens were called watermelons (green on the outside red on the inside). Unsurprising as well to see such an organisation, with such a divisive and destructive agenda, is funded by Soros.
A Winner Is You said:
One of their co founders of BLM Louisville wrote this list of demands:
1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.
2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.
3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.
4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.
7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fk they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.
8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.
9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.
10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/
In 2017...spin from both sides?1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.
2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.
3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.
4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.
6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.
7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the f
k they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.
9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.
10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/
https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/24/did-blm-act...
https://magamedia.org/requests-for-white-people-fr...
My own view Is the elephant in the room is the large number of young black lads with no father figure (or no strong male role model) when growing up. That is one of the key determinants as to whether they achieve educationally, get involved in crime etc etc.
That really is the issue here, not the historical oppression that took place decades and decades ago, but it'll take a brave person to raise it head on.
That really is the issue here, not the historical oppression that took place decades and decades ago, but it'll take a brave person to raise it head on.
ReallyReallyGood said:
Blackmails origin
I never gave it much thought, only a quick look on wiki"Blackmail originally meant payments rendered by settlers in the counties of England bordering Scotland in exchange for protection from Scottish thieves and marauders.[3][7] The "mail" part of blackmail derives from Middle English male meaning "rent or tribute".[10] This tribute (male or reditus) was paid in goods or labour ("nigri"); hence reditus nigri, or "blackmail". Alternatively, it may be derived from two Scottish Gaelic words blathaich - to protect; and mal - tribute or payment."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail
princeperch said:
My own view Is the elephant in the room is the large number of young black lads with no father figure (or no strong male role model) when growing up. That is one of the key determinants as to whether they achieve educationally, get involved in crime etc etc.
That really is the issue here, not the historical oppression that took place decades and decades ago, but it'll take a brave person to raise it head on.
And if you look at the aims stated on their website they actively state they are against the nuclear family. See my post earlier in the thread for reference:That really is the issue here, not the historical oppression that took place decades and decades ago, but it'll take a brave person to raise it head on.
egomeister said:
I don't think anarchy is their target. The aims read exactly like critical theory / postmodernism which has some roots in Marxism. Reading through their beliefs on the website is quite eye opening: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
This sentence stood out for me as highlighting the collectivist end goals:
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
This sentence stood out for me as highlighting the collectivist end goals:
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
Gargamel said:
VBRJ
Obvs ?
I am amazed this question got asked on this site.
Off course Obvs ?
I am amazed this question got asked on this site.
I am thinking of setting up an organisation "puppy lives matter". Stated aims will be to give regular floggings to any middle class whites using the phrase "white privilege" and to seize the assets of any company involved in empty virtue signalling on social media.
If anyone disagrees with these policies I will ask "so you are in favour of killing puppies then?"
Wrathalanche said:
BLM don't have a monopoly on anti-racism protesting. And over here in the UK, they just don't have the reach to draw out crowds as massive as they did at the weekend solely based on their own charter.
The protests for the last two weeks have been against institutionalised racism and police violence. The vast, VAST majority of people on these marches are there because they all agree that those two things are bad and worth some disruption to the status quo over. They will also broadly agree with the literal term "black lives matter". This doesn't mean anyone is necessarily exclusively trying to further the aims of BLM by being there.
BLM may be the figureheads or mouth piece of the crowd, but only because the crowd allows them to be so. In fact, its probably fair to say that BLM benefits hugely that so many people are naturally angry with the state of policing in minority communities that they are able to take a place at the front. The crowds aren't out because they feel sorry for the BLM campaigners and want to support them - they are out because the feel sorry for black people. The sentiment that has brought people out will be there regardless of any political hijacking of the BLM message, if that's something that occurs.
I assume your talking about the USA not UK?The protests for the last two weeks have been against institutionalised racism and police violence. The vast, VAST majority of people on these marches are there because they all agree that those two things are bad and worth some disruption to the status quo over. They will also broadly agree with the literal term "black lives matter". This doesn't mean anyone is necessarily exclusively trying to further the aims of BLM by being there.
BLM may be the figureheads or mouth piece of the crowd, but only because the crowd allows them to be so. In fact, its probably fair to say that BLM benefits hugely that so many people are naturally angry with the state of policing in minority communities that they are able to take a place at the front. The crowds aren't out because they feel sorry for the BLM campaigners and want to support them - they are out because the feel sorry for black people. The sentiment that has brought people out will be there regardless of any political hijacking of the BLM message, if that's something that occurs.
Four Litre said:
I assume your talking about the USA not UK?
Don't think there was anything in my comment that was region specific. Could apply to both. Of course, people in the UK could also be turning out in numbers due the revulsion of the actions of our American cousin's use of neck restraints. It certainly has troubled me greatly.Wrathalanche said:
Don't think there was anything in my comment that was region specific. Could apply to both. Of course, people in the UK could also be turning out in numbers due the revulsion of the actions of our American cousin's use of neck restraints. It certainly has troubled me greatly.
What police violence (which you mentioned in your post) are they protesting about in the UK?Despite our constant diet of American TV shows and Films we don't actually live in America.
Generally I despise Katie Hopkins but she actually asked a number of valid questions;
Why do black lives matter any more than anyone else’s, all lives matter?
What are they truly asking for?
Why do BLM not seem bothered by black / black crime? In Chicago alone on the same weekend 10 young black men were shot dead by other black men but that doesn’t incite anything?
Why on earth is it now happening in the UK? Throwing historic statues into the river because they traded slaves 400 years ago? I’ve no issue with updating cities / statues to reflect modern values, but allowing this to be done in a criminal manner; where does it stop?
They should put all the statues back and follow the proper process to replace them, rename streets, etc.
ETA; I don’t believe the UK Police are inherently racist, in the USA ... well having spent a fair bit of time there, both holidaying and working, there is still a massive ‘undercurrent’ of inherent racism.
Why do black lives matter any more than anyone else’s, all lives matter?
What are they truly asking for?
Why do BLM not seem bothered by black / black crime? In Chicago alone on the same weekend 10 young black men were shot dead by other black men but that doesn’t incite anything?
Why on earth is it now happening in the UK? Throwing historic statues into the river because they traded slaves 400 years ago? I’ve no issue with updating cities / statues to reflect modern values, but allowing this to be done in a criminal manner; where does it stop?
They should put all the statues back and follow the proper process to replace them, rename streets, etc.
ETA; I don’t believe the UK Police are inherently racist, in the USA ... well having spent a fair bit of time there, both holidaying and working, there is still a massive ‘undercurrent’ of inherent racism.
Edited by Lord.Vader on Wednesday 10th June 14:32
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