CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
smashing said:
Condi said:
The government really need to sort out the messaging and tell people the truth about the risks, otherwise we are going to end up in a cultural and economic wasteland.
I genuinely think that tipping point has been reached...its f
ked...completely fked hence the drive to get everyone back in the office ASAP and spend your money.As for spending money yes, no need to drag this on any longer.
sambucket said:
I hope you understand why I think your 'moral' objection to masks is the more emotional response.
You are just parroting Trump now as far as I can tell. Who I note, hasn't spoke with Dr Fauci for 5 weeks since he started pushing masks hard.
There may have been a justifiable argument for masks if the requirement was introduced at the same time as reducing the 2m social distancing, but it wasn't.You are just parroting Trump now as far as I can tell. Who I note, hasn't spoke with Dr Fauci for 5 weeks since he started pushing masks hard.
If it was safe to go about your business without a mast a few weeks ago why will it not be in a few days/weeks time?
If R is on the increase then will masks bring it down?
Vanden Saab said:
We are already running at many fewer deaths than usual for the time of year during a time when deaths are low. I expect this to continue until at least March or April next year. Due to the extra care most people are putting into avoiding spreading germs we may well end up with less deaths than normal. Will people then say Covid has allowed old people to live longer than their 'natural' time?
We had about 300 less deaths than the 5 year average last week, <100 the week before, that's not exactly 'many fewer deaths than usual'. Especially given ~55k extra people had died..... If it was simply killing old people slightly before their time as claimed we should probably be seeing thousands per week less than average deaths for the rest of the year and into next winter. MG CHRIS said:
Hopefully all this nonsense will pass and people will slip back into their old lives.
That's the problem. Why would it ever stop? As cmoose pointed out previously, it's being imposed (or looks like it will) based on completely ambiguous evidence. How does one then back out of the imposition of masks as it's not being based on any clear evidence.I am not ‘parroting trump’ because I have not been following anything he is saying about masks.
What I do know is that the construction sector has been operating throughout lockdown and the Govt endorsed procedures that they have been following have put masks as a last resort for any method statement.
Workers are encouraged to stay apart, limit time spent within 2m. Avoid time ‘face to face’ etc. But they have been told that masks should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. And we are talking about medical / graded masks here - not face coverings.
This is because, the science recognises that the level of protection from masks is lower than from the other measures and that psychologically workers will take more risk if they feel protected by PPE.
I haven’t imagined all this. It’s been a real focus for contractors for months.
And now masks are going to be our primary defence against transmission?
It’s bks pure and simple.
What I do know is that the construction sector has been operating throughout lockdown and the Govt endorsed procedures that they have been following have put masks as a last resort for any method statement.
Workers are encouraged to stay apart, limit time spent within 2m. Avoid time ‘face to face’ etc. But they have been told that masks should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. And we are talking about medical / graded masks here - not face coverings.
This is because, the science recognises that the level of protection from masks is lower than from the other measures and that psychologically workers will take more risk if they feel protected by PPE.
I haven’t imagined all this. It’s been a real focus for contractors for months.
And now masks are going to be our primary defence against transmission?
It’s b
ks pure and simple. isaldiri said:
We had about 300 less deaths than the 5 year average last week, <100 the week before, that's not exactly 'many fewer deaths than usual'. Especially given ~55k extra people had died..... If it was simply killing old people slightly before their time as claimed we should probably be seeing thousands per week less than average deaths for the rest of the year and into next winter.
Given as flu deaths were lower than usual, you could equally argue that Covid was simply mopping up a few who would have usually died in the preceding months anyway. I will not be wearing a mask unless I am absolutely forced to, e.g. if I have to go to hospital. Luckily I can't stand shopping & haven't visited the high street for months anyway, but if they will become mandatory in shops, I won't be visiting ANY of them anytime soon. Utterly ridiculous.
vixen1700 said:
Sorry, my mistake. The £1000 fine was for breaking quarantine coming in from abroad. It's £100 for not wearing a mask on TfL.
Although looking into it, no fines have yet been issued.
I haven't read the TfL or English public Transport regulations, but the Scottish shopping regs don't require anybody to wear a mask.Although looking into it, no fines have yet been issued.
You are required to wear a face covering. Rab Nesbitt is free to go shopping in Govan with his vest pulled up over his head.
I wonder how it will affect the likes of Meadowhall.
Will we have to wear a mask when walking the concourse and in shops, or just when in shops? What about the food/beverage outlets in the concourse?
What about the open plan dining area, obviously you can't wear a mast when eating, one side of a red line you don't the other you do?
Bloody ridiculous.
Will we have to wear a mask when walking the concourse and in shops, or just when in shops? What about the food/beverage outlets in the concourse?
What about the open plan dining area, obviously you can't wear a mast when eating, one side of a red line you don't the other you do?
Bloody ridiculous.
Andy888 said:
How hard is it to start getting these custom printed masks made up?
Just thinking, say you offered people a box of custom printed jobbies. Surely you could turn say £20 profit on a box atm. So I’d only need to find 5,000 punters to buy a box and I’d have enough for a Lambo.
£20 a box profit? A box of 10 blue ones from Screwfix is only £6 retail. Just thinking, say you offered people a box of custom printed jobbies. Surely you could turn say £20 profit on a box atm. So I’d only need to find 5,000 punters to buy a box and I’d have enough for a Lambo.
It appears to me that the moment of crisis is near. HMG are going to have to start making choices or the economic situation is going to deteriorate rapidly. How long can city centres remain empty? How long can we justify retaining transport staff when services are running at less than 50% of normal.
Equally, having opened Pandora's box on WFH, how can they compel people to return to work in a way which most people now want to avoid? When at the same time telling them to go to work but work from home.
The real tipping point is coming. Furlough is ending but I also think that the impact on the public sector has been grossly under-estimated so far. Our new way of working needs fewer of them. The real fun begins when you start down that line.
I see no easy way out of this in the short term. At best we are in for a re-run of the 1980s and the painful transition from an industrial to service orientated economy. I don't know what the post covid economy will look like but I can only see pain on the horizon.
When I started my practice 13 years ago, I stripped it to the bone. No admin staff, use of serviced offices, WFH or work from an office next to home and the productivity effect was enormous. We moved to the cloud in 2011. I was able to do the same job as others on 50-66% of their rates. My client motto was: "I can have a better office anytime you are prepared to pay for it".
However, almost all of these productivity gains were deflationary. Fewer staff, cheaper rent, etc, etc. There will be a market for office space but at what rent or capital cost?
Equally, having opened Pandora's box on WFH, how can they compel people to return to work in a way which most people now want to avoid? When at the same time telling them to go to work but work from home.
The real tipping point is coming. Furlough is ending but I also think that the impact on the public sector has been grossly under-estimated so far. Our new way of working needs fewer of them. The real fun begins when you start down that line.
I see no easy way out of this in the short term. At best we are in for a re-run of the 1980s and the painful transition from an industrial to service orientated economy. I don't know what the post covid economy will look like but I can only see pain on the horizon.
When I started my practice 13 years ago, I stripped it to the bone. No admin staff, use of serviced offices, WFH or work from an office next to home and the productivity effect was enormous. We moved to the cloud in 2011. I was able to do the same job as others on 50-66% of their rates. My client motto was: "I can have a better office anytime you are prepared to pay for it".
However, almost all of these productivity gains were deflationary. Fewer staff, cheaper rent, etc, etc. There will be a market for office space but at what rent or capital cost?
Alucidnation said:
Or, CV19 has been dealt with in a reasonably timely manner and everyone is being encouraged/asked to go back to work if they can do so safely.
As for spending money yes, no need to drag this on any longer.
If covid had been dealt with then there wouldn't be the need for any masks, basically the government are saying there is still a killer disease out there but you need to give your hard earned money to my conglomerate mates so you will have to inconvenience yourself by wearing a mask. The concern from the government seems to be dead people can't spend.As for spending money yes, no need to drag this on any longer.
scottyp123 said:
If covid had been dealt with then there wouldn't be the need for any masks, basically the government are saying there is still a killer disease out there but you need to give your hard earned money to my conglomerate mates so you will have to inconvenience yourself by wearing a mask. The concern from the government seems to be dead people can't spend.
Only 1 in 3900 people with coronavirus. Not COVID - just the virus.It’s been ‘dealt with’. If you think otherwise then you have wholly unrealistic expectations. No Govt can wink this illness out of existence.
scottyp123 said:
Alucidnation said:
Or, CV19 has been dealt with in a reasonably timely manner and everyone is being encouraged/asked to go back to work if they can do so safely.
As for spending money yes, no need to drag this on any longer.
If covid had been dealt with then there wouldn't be the need for any masks, basically the government are saying there is still a killer disease out there but you need to give your hard earned money to my conglomerate mates so you will have to inconvenience yourself by wearing a mask. The concern from the government seems to be dead people can't spend.As for spending money yes, no need to drag this on any longer.
I’m classed as a crown servant (not CS) and like many others have worked from home since late March. The only impact of me being forced back to the office would be less work being done (mainly due to distractions and face to face meetings) and a slightly higher tax take from my spending on fuel.
If I worked in a city centre I’d be very reluctant to spend in the likes of Pret; lockdown has allowed me to really evaluate my finances and where my money goes.
The large organisation I work for published a mission statement for the future of working fairly early on, stating that flexible working would remain after CV19. It will be interesting if they have to back-pedal on that.
If I worked in a city centre I’d be very reluctant to spend in the likes of Pret; lockdown has allowed me to really evaluate my finances and where my money goes.
The large organisation I work for published a mission statement for the future of working fairly early on, stating that flexible working would remain after CV19. It will be interesting if they have to back-pedal on that.
So my principled opposition to the face nappy lasted all of 24 hours. I had to reluctantly venture to B&Q today to purchase paint that I forgot to order earlier in the week. I donned a disposable surgical mask and within a few minutes I found it pretty oppressive. All I wanted to do was to get in and out of the store as quickly as possible. Retail is so fecked if this is it's near term future. Far from making me think it is safe, I simply wanted to never to come back.
ant1973 said:
So my principled opposition to the face nappy lasted all of 24 hours. I had to reluctantly venture to B&Q today to purchase paint that I forgot to order earlier in the week. I donned a disposable surgical mask and within a few minutes I found it pretty oppressive. All I wanted to do was to get in and out of the store as quickly as possible. Retail is so fecked if this is it's near term future. Far from making me think it is safe, I simply wanted to never to come back.
Why did you do that? Are you in Scotland?I’ll only wear a mask if it’s law and even then it’ll be kept in my pocket and worn very reluctantly if told to.
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