Tesla most valuable automaker in the world

Tesla most valuable automaker in the world

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Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
....

They have 20% of the global EV market. VW at their peak had 11% of the car market.

....
I'm not a Tesla knocker (Musk is a dick, but the cars are interesting), however do those stats tell the whole story?

Didn't Benz once have 100% of the car market?

And how has Tesla's percentage of the market moved over time? They were, after all, early entrants.

Do we think Tesla can learn to build cars quicker than traditional manufacturers can learn how to build EVs? I'm not convinced. If I were in the market for a new EV now, I think I'd go Taycan. Lower down the market am less sure. But with lots of manufacturers now offering 200-300 mile ranges I think much of the Tesla advantage has gone and the judgements will start to be on the car side and the price.

Focussing on the battery tech and infrastructure, plus perhaps upper end halo cars would be the best move IMO.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
I'm not a Tesla knocker (Musk is a dick, but the cars are interesting), however do those stats tell the whole story?

Didn't Benz once have 100% of the car market?

And how has Tesla's percentage of the market moved over time? They were, after all, early entrants.

Do we think Tesla can learn to build cars quicker than traditional manufacturers can learn how to build EVs? I'm not convinced. If I were in the market for a new EV now, I think I'd go Taycan. Lower down the market am less sure. But with lots of manufacturers now offering 200-300 mile ranges I think much of the Tesla advantage has gone and the judgements will start to be on the car side and the price.

Focussing on the battery tech and infrastructure, plus perhaps upper end halo cars would be the best move IMO.
They increased their global market share last year. Taycan costs 3 times what a model 3 does and is less efficient and charges slower. has zero chance of ever driving itself etc.

Ford Mach-e can perhaps do 300 miles if it delivers, buyt using 1/3rd more battery than the faster model Y.

VW is spending $7bn on a new startup software spin off for a car OS as they are 7 years behind tesla, when they are finished they will still only own 60% of the code running on their cars.

NVidia will have something potentially comparable to the HW3 fsd computer available in 2024.

Its not my fault you all cant see where their advantages lie, the market obviously does.

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
They increased their global market share last year. Taycan costs 3 times what a model 3 does and is less efficient and charges slower. has zero chance of ever driving itself etc.

Its not my fault you all cant see where their advantages lie, the market obviously does.
You are not really comparing like with like there.

In price terms the Model 3 is just below the Jaguar Ipace.

A long range performance version of the Model 3 is £56K. Jaguar Ipace £64K

Comparison

Tesla Model 3 long range performance model
456 BHP
0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds
Real world range (what car) 237 miles

Jaguar Ipace
395 BHP
0-60 in 4.5 seconds
Real world range (what car) 253 miles

You can get less powerful versions of the Model 3 that are cheaper but really it comes down to factors like ride and handling, styling and cabin quality.

As a pure car manufacturer I don't really think they have some massive advantage. If the market is given them some sky high valuation and it is justified then it will be on other factors.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
What car range lol ffs

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
What car range lol ffs
If you have an alternative source please show it, but the range is unlikely to be the official one, in the same way ICE cars rarely achieve their official MPGs.

Glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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The old guard are really going to struggle

You ask any non enthusiast what’s an electric car what do they say. Tesla

If the so called big boys want to catch up it needs a ground up rethink and a complete change of tact

Vw ford Toyota etc could solidify a single charging standard and grow a huge charging network of their own overnight but it would need them to stop being rivals and agree for once

And bring their business models out from the dark ages. Tesla can decide on a new software or change in the afternoon code it in the evening and have it rolled out to every car overnight. They do software and just happen to sell you that with a semi decent car attached

The frightening thing for the big boys is that Tesla is starting to get a grip on quality control and spreading into other markets

Guess what the softwares already there so minor adaptions for different hardware configs isn’t exactly hard. Scale a few features out and reduce hardware specs a touch and Tesla will soon be offering another new model below the 3 that will hammer everyone on cost and most importantly desirability

Think of them like Apple as mentioned above

Lots of people aspire to own the product what happens when Apple offer a cut down version with
Roughly the same features but at a lower price point to target a different demographic people flock to it

98elise

26,377 posts

160 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
Just imagine how valuable they might become if they ever turn a profit.
It has?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
JagLover said:
If you have an alternative source please show it, but the range is unlikely to be the official one, in the same way ICE cars rarely achieve their official MPGs.
There's heaps of group tests including a 20 EV test in Norway recently.

The whart car method is terribly flawed and claiming the ipace has the same range as the model 3 just makes it look foolish.

I chose the taycan because it has similar space and style to the 3 and its the fastest charging non tesla.

I'm not going to argue every point here because we've been over it all. I'm just explaining what a lot of people on here seem not to want to understand.

The world is changing and established auto manufacturing isn't changing fast enough

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
There's heaps of group tests including a 20 EV test in Norway recently.

The whart car method is terribly flawed and claiming the ipace has the same range as the model 3 just makes it look foolish.

I chose the taycan because it has similar space and style to the 3 and its the fastest charging non tesla.

I'm not going to argue every point here because we've been over it all. I'm just explaining what a lot of people on here seem not to want to understand.

The world is changing and established auto manufacturing isn't changing fast enough
I am sure the world is changing and if I had the money I would be sorely tempted by a Jaguar Ipace over an ICE alternative.

You are though coming across as rather a Tesla fan boy in this respect. You seemed to choose the Taycan as your comparative as it was considerably more expensive. However it isn't actually 3 times more expensive as you claimed. Particularly if you pay extra for a Model 3 with decent range. Looking at pictures of the Taycan it also looks rather different.

I think we can all agree that car manufacturers have been slow off the mark, particularly German ones. We can also agree that too little thought was given to the charging network by those manufacturers.

What many are disputing is that Tesla cars are amazingly better than the alternative. A comparison to the nearest alternative shows similar performance and range with what many people consider to be inferior cabin quality in the Tesla.

In this country electric cars are likely to be most popular with those still able to get company cars as the P11D Benefit in Kind system is heavily pushing us that way. So they will be likely used mainly by middle aged (and older) Managers and Directors of owner managed businesses. This means that traditional car makers have a very good chance once they have a full range of products at acceptable price points.

Edited by JagLover on Thursday 2nd July 08:17

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
Ugly and cheaply made cars.

Excellent infrastructure, pioneer of EV tech but can they maintain their market share or will they fade away and become a N-1 supplier into the main players today for batteries / drive trains.

Tesla’s autopilot / self drive feature has failed and they continue to flog a dead horse, that is where they will be overtaken.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
I'm a tesla fan boy because they are doing great things.

They are not the only company making decent EV's, hyundai, xpeng etc are. But they are far from the comprehensive package as a business.

Again not going to justify myself or my view in here. Feel free to carry on misunderstanding.


Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
I'm a tesla fan boy because they are doing great things.

They are not the only company making decent EV's, hyundai, xpeng etc are. But they are far from the comprehensive package as a business.

Again not going to justify myself or my view in here. Feel free to carry on misunderstanding.
Statements like that do not do your argument any favours. My opinion of Tesla as a brand is that it attracts boring dicks who turn linguistic cartwheels to justify paying through the nose for being development mules and driving unattractive, buggy cars and you have just reinforced that, so forgive my misunderstanding.

silly

I have no doubt EVs will 'get there' but IMHO the all-electric version of the MGZS will be responsible for getting more people into them than Tesla will ever be.

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 2nd July 08:33

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
Also feel free to throw your toys out the pram.


We've had endless arguments on here about tesla and EVs in general mostly fueled by the daily mail attitudes of some. I'm not arguing them again.


Byker28i

58,860 posts

216 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
JagLover said:
In price terms the Model 3 is just below the Jaguar Ipace.

A long range performance version of the Model 3 is £56K. Jaguar Ipace £64K
But do you need the performance model? Someone at work finally got their model 3 last year after 3 years on the waiting list, £48k with every option including autopilot for the long range. - now it's £47K.

He finds it easily does over 300 mile range so thats sorted. He had problems with a door lock, but apart from that it's good. Secrutiy mode is a neat feature, alerts your phone if someone goes too near the car and the cameras record.

Perfect for the daily commute, but once you get past Swansea, you're screwed for chargers in South Wales and we're back to the old problem of not enough public chargers everywhere and if you don't own a house with a driveway and have to park in the street you can't charge.

I could see me having one if the second hand price was cheap enough. EV will be the way performance will go.

Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 2nd July 08:35

Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Security mode is a neat feature, alerts your phone if someone goes too near the car and the cameras record.
Hmmm. I've managed to add that level of security to a 10 year old Jag using aftermarket parts. No biggy, and not exactly an EV USP.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
Evercross said:
I have no doubt EVs will 'get there' but IMHO the all-electric version of the MGZS will be responsible for getting more people into them than Tesla will ever be.
sure ... sure...


Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
Evercross said:
I have no doubt EVs will 'get there' but IMHO the all-electric version of the MGZS will be responsible for getting more people into them than Tesla will ever be.
sure ... sure...

Hah! You took me literally. The MGZS has been responsible for getting EVs in general a lot more exposure because of its marketing and publicity - it broke a price point and made people who previously would never have considered an electric car start thinking they could afford one and start paying attention to the market for them.

Up until then premium pricing (a la Tesla) just meant the majority of people were dismissing the prospect of owning an EV as 'too expensive'.

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 2nd July 08:50

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
The MG/Saic plus a bunch of other Chinese brands will flood Europe with cars soon.

Very much like the Android vs Apple thing in the phone space. Even though I dislike apple I know they are by far the most profitable phone manufacturer..

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Just imagine how valuable they might become if they ever turn a profit.
Imagine if you were not so out of touch and out of date?
Really?

Internet said:
Tesla has had only a handful of quarterly profits in its 10 years as a public company. On a strict accounting basis the company posted yet another loss for 2019. However, Tesla posted a $386 million profit in the final three months of 2019 using the operating basis followed by most analysts and investors
Making a one off 3 month profit in a year with another 3 quarters of losses is not making a profit.

They've never had a year without making a loss.



TheRainMaker

6,306 posts

241 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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Tesla the most unreliable car manufacture according to JD Power

250 faults per 100 cars well above the industry average of 166.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21302804/tesla-...

Shame really as they have done a massive amount of good to make EV cars more mainstream.