Possible fake brake pads - Padgid RS29

[hoganscrogan]

Just received some RSL29 for my M2 after a Castle Combe track day in which the standard pads were rubbish!

Purchased from a seemingly reputable website (avoided ebay) and received two boxes yesterday- front and rears. However the boxes had been opened with the hologram security seal broken and bits of ripped cardboard stuffed in as packing. They 'seem' OK but never purchased before so a bit nervous - before I kick off here are some pictures for anyone who has used these pads. Legit? Anyone got pictures of one they have received?

Fronts are made in USA rears state made in Germany - front pad brake material seems much rougher and open pore than rear pad material with rear material about 2-3mm thinner than front. Thanks for your hive mind!

Edited by hoganscrogan on Thursday 2nd July 08:49

Edited by hoganscrogan on Thursday 2nd July 08:50

Edited by hoganscrogan on Thursday 2nd July 08:57

[Smiljan]

Get in touch with them, they used to have a whole page on re-boxed fake pagid pads as it was a big problem and they limit their top warranty to direct purchases from Eurocarparts I think for this reason.

https://pagid.com/contact/

Let us know what they say, there are a lot of dodgy parts being produced and sold on eBay and the likes although you say you used a reputable supplier it may be worth getting in touch with the supplier also.

[hoganscrogan]

Cheers- yes I've already messaged Pagid, will let you know what/if I hear from them.

[hoganscrogan]

Retailer just got back to me and they open boxes and take picture before dispatch...

"This is due to the fact that the boxes have been opened by us prior to shipping.
We open and inspect all items before sending, we also pad out the boxes where possible to try and eliminate any damage happening during transit. (we use recycled material for this)

This is the picture taken of your pads prior to packing.

This way we can guarantee they left us in perfect condition.

We carry out this process to ensure claims can be made with couriers if any damage occurs during transit.

Looking at the picture we took I can see what you mean about the visual material difference, I'm sure the compound will be correct it just looks like the final finish is more course on the front pads.
I can email Pagid with this query if you like? "

[wioifoiee]

this is off topic and i'm sure you may already know this, so ignore me if you do,
i bought he same rsl29's for my 440i, from ca-international (now crest automative).
The guy there was helpful but told me rubbish when it came to bedding in procedure -

"do not bed them in like normal brake pads, these require 5-10 hard stops from 50mph to 10, repeteadley".

err.....No. not at all. Get to the track and i had shudder all day long.

what is actually needed is a 3 stage bedding in process; build up the transfer layer between disc and pad first, then generate high amounts of heat with hard stops, before a cool down period. I wish i'd ignored him and done my own research, which, as it turns out, is on the pagid website (doh).

https://uber9s.com/Pagid_bedding_in_procedure.pdf

http://www.pagidracing.com/en/information/technica...

and an excellent video of someone following it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqxpGhmwCY

Edited by wioifoiee on Thursday 2nd July 12:43

[hoganscrogan]

Cheers mate - will be following Pagids bedding in for sure! Looks like mine are legit at least.

This was me (and son) with the standard pads at Castle Combe - judder after one decent lap

[Sf_Manta]

hoganscrogan said:

Apologies for the side track but that's some epic photoshopping there with the numberplate and the rage faces

[mike74]

That's sounds like a whole lot of faffing from the retailer... so everything they sell they firstly open, photograph, reference and record each photographed item and then repackage?

Must be very time consuming for them!

Edited by mike74 on Thursday 2nd July 16:24

[Mark83]

Coincidentally I had some arrive this week for my M4 from MS Motorsport (great price and quick delivery). Box was sealed and pads very well packed from the factory in foam.

[hoganscrogan]

Mark83 said:

Coincidentally I had some arrive this week for my M4 from MS Motorsport (great price and quick delivery). Box was sealed and pads very well packed from the factory in foam.

Cheers Mark, your back plate yellow spray and friction material look same as my fronts, foam packing was all there plus bits of cardboard! Supplier was actually really helpful and all appears to be legit! Next trackday not until early sept so will let you all know how the Rs29's do.

I liked my photoshop number plate so much I've ordered 'DUUUUUH' from showplates so I can be anon on track. I'm a total nob I know. Hopefully the new pads will mean no rage face.

Edited by hoganscrogan on Friday 3rd July 08:29

[Humour]

mike74 said:

That's sounds like a whole lot of faffing from the retailer... so everything they sell they firstly open, photograph, reference and record each photographed item and then repackage?

Must be very time consuming for them!

Edited by mike74 on Thursday 2nd July 16:24

Sure, but labour time is not as costly as having to take the hit in 250quid product. Ship 20.of those in a week and 2 get fked by couriers and you have arguably lost half a month's warehouse labour equivalent in money.

Add to this that claims are not always a given and take ages to realise and a small business cashflow could easily put them in trouble.

Faff? Yes. I'm sure they have their reasons and not doing it to keep busy.

[Order66]

hoganscrogan said:

Cheers mate - will be following Pagids bedding in for sure! Looks like mine are legit at least.

Get some decent fluid in as well, with better pads the next weak link is the fluid - better doing it now and easy to do yourself if even mildly mechanically minded.

[mike74]

Humour said:

Sure, but labour time is not as costly as having to take the hit in 250quid product. Ship 20.of those in a week and 2 get fked by couriers and you have arguably lost half a month's warehouse labour equivalent in money.

Add to this that claims are not always a given and take ages to realise and a small business cashflow could easily put them in trouble.

Faff? Yes. I'm sure they have their reasons and not doing it to keep busy.

Yes I wasn't criticising them or suggesting it's a pointless exercise, I can fully appreciate why they do it, just must be a real faff for them, that's all

[AdiT]

I heard a story a little while ago... A well known pad manufacturer (A) was sold to another (B) who basically wanted the factories to produce there own pads and didn't produces pads under man A's name. They then sold the trademark A to a well-known parts retailer who then put that name on their own brand, made in China pads.... Allegedly

[xjay1337]

wioifoiee said:

this is off topic and i'm sure you may already know this, so ignore me if you do,
i bought he same rsl29's for my 440i, from ca-international (now crest automative).
The guy there was helpful but told me rubbish when it came to bedding in procedure -

"do not bed them in like normal brake pads, these require 5-10 hard stops from 50mph to 10, repeteadley".

err.....No. not at all. Get to the track and i had shudder all day long.

what is actually needed is a 3 stage bedding in process; build up the transfer layer between disc and pad first, then generate high amounts of heat with hard stops, before a cool down period. I wish i'd ignored him and done my own research, which, as it turns out, is on the pagid website (doh).

https://uber9s.com/Pagid_bedding_in_procedure.pdf

http://www.pagidracing.com/en/information/technica...

and an excellent video of someone following it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqxpGhmwCY

Edited by wioifoiee on Thursday 2nd July 12:43

I run Rs29.

My bedding in was approx 2 or 3 miles in town to bed then aggressive bed in process from around 80 to 20 and then cool fully then 100 to 30.

I have no vibration.

If you getting vibration it may be stock discs. They seem to be pretty weak.
I seemingly warped a set of brand new OEM discs half a track day.

I use mtec j hook discs now - had no problems infact on 2nd set of discs pads.

Edited by xjay1337 on Saturday 4th July 19:20

[Order66]

xjay1337 said:

I seemingly warped a set of brand new OEM discs half a track day.

Warping of discs is generally a myth. Its almost impossible to heat the steel to the point it bends unevenly while rotating. Warping is uneven deposits of pad material on the surface of the disc - generally from not cooling the brakes sufficiently before coming off-track, so that the pad material "bonds" to the surface of the disc. You can correct this with a more aggressive pad - which can effectively "clean" the surface of the disc and remove the softer bonded material, or go to extremes like having the disc skimmed.

Aside from size and if they are slotted or not, there isn't much performance difference in discs(unless completely changing material - i.e. steel to carbon). More expensive ones tend to be made from more corrosion resistant material, but don't fundamentally alter performance - they could even be heavier and be detrimental to performance. OEM discs with good pads, fluid and technique should work just fine.

[xjay1337]

Order66 said:

Warping of discs is generally a myth. Its almost impossible to heat the steel to the point it bends unevenly while rotating. Warping is uneven deposits of pad material on the surface of the disc - generally from not cooling the brakes sufficiently before coming off-track, so that the pad material "bonds" to the surface of the disc. You can correct this with a more aggressive pad - which can effectively "clean" the surface of the disc and remove the softer bonded material, or go to extremes like having the disc skimmed.

Aside from size and if they are slotted or not, there isn't much performance difference in discs(unless completely changing material - i.e. steel to carbon). More expensive ones tend to be made from more corrosion resistant material, but don't fundamentally alter performance - they could even be heavier and be detrimental to performance. OEM discs with good pads, fluid and technique should work just fine.

I said seemingly. It certainly wasn't pad build up.

I've had pad build up before. And occasionally still do with these pads.

I'm pretty experienced with brakes. As I'm an experienced track- dayer. I don't sit on brakes in pits. I do a good cool down lap with no brake application and leave my car hand brake off and roll the car.

I also have dedicated brake ducts.

Since changing to a different disc I've not had any issues. And my driving habits haven't changed. Other people who track their x35i and x40i also have similar experiences

I'm just advising the guy with the 440i that it could he a similar

[wioifoiee]

xjay1337 said:

I run Rs29.

My bedding in was approx 2 or 3 miles in town to bed then aggressive bed in process from around 80 to 20 and then cool fully then 100 to 30.

I have no vibration.

If you getting vibration it may be stock discs. They seem to be pretty weak.
I seemingly warped a set of brand new OEM discs half a track day.

I use mtec j hook discs now - had no problems infact on 2nd set of discs pads.

Edited by xjay1337 on Saturday 4th July 19:20

yes.........and if you read my post properly, you will read that i did not bed them in, in the manner in which you did, and the manner in which pagid describe. Which is why i did experience judder, unlike you.
That was kind of the point of my post.

[hoganscrogan]

Fitted the Pagid RS29's to my M2 comp - suuuper easy, surprisingly simple job. Took me about an hour and a half to do all four corners. Bedded pads in Sunday as per Pagid's website and they feel good, no squeaking!

The standard BMW pads I took off have a much smaller friction material patch and displayed some very minor chunking/chips but still have lots of thickness (8 months old 1 track day).

[xjay1337]

wioifoiee said:

yes.........and if you read my post properly, you will read that i did not bed them in, in the manner in which you did, and the manner in which pagid describe. Which is why i did experience judder, unlike you.
That was kind of the point of my post.

Ok...... i also on my 2nd set of pad didn't do a hard break in on these.... and they're fine.

I'm trying to help not be an arse so no need for smart arse comments.

Some ppl on this forum .... honestly ...