Cut traffic by blocking roads?
Discussion
From the BBC article
"Drivers mounted their cars on the pavement to avoid a road block set up on Upwood Road in Lewisham, south-east London, to try to reduce traffic in the area."
I think they mean "Drivers mounted the pavement in their cars...." but then I don't have a degree in media studies......
I can however speak and write English...
"Drivers mounted their cars on the pavement to avoid a road block set up on Upwood Road in Lewisham, south-east London, to try to reduce traffic in the area."
I think they mean "Drivers mounted the pavement in their cars...." but then I don't have a degree in media studies......
I can however speak and write English...
Harry7612 said:
You would plan your route to arrive in the end you need to access, it’s really not that complicated.
This road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
Assuming you know its there of course. This is Lewisham. Quite a busy place and an average emergency responder might not be hugely familiar with each road in the boroughThis road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
menousername said:
Harry7612 said:
You would plan your route to arrive in the end you need to access, it’s really not that complicated.
This road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
Assuming you know its there of course. This is Lewisham. Quite a busy place and an average emergency responder might not be hugely familiar with each road in the boroughThis road has been used as a rat run and there are sufficient main roads in the area, quite agree with this being closed for the benefit of the residents that live there.
menousername said:
Dg504 said:
I don’t expect driving within the north/south circular will ever get easier and in fairness it should be being discouraged as much as possible.
What if its essential to your work? 
If people who were able to do so didn't drive journeys of 0-5 miles, that would be about 50% of car journeys eliminated. Admittedly, for longer journeys, you're on the road for longer, but long journeys really are a small fraction of overall travel.
Edited by Solocle on Friday 3rd July 12:04
menousername said:
Dg504 said:
I don’t expect driving within the north/south circular will ever get easier and in fairness it should be being discouraged as much as possible.
What if its essential to your work? anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed regarding the road conditions speed humps, cameras etc. Disagree totally when you say bikes and scooters. They have just as much right to be on the road as you and high quality cycle lanes are few and far between at present. Have you ever considered for a moment how much longer your journey by car would take, and how much more congestion there would be for you if all those people commuting by bike etc instead decided to drive their cars to work? They are actually doing you a big favour by cycling.
Yes I get that an urban environment is busy and chaotic and that sometimes it can be frustrating. There are plenty of s
t cyclists out there and plenty of st car drivers too. I can also understand that it must be doubly hard or frustrating for those drivers who lack spacial awareness and good planning/observation skills when driving. Still, I don't think that gives anyone a reason to moan. If people find driving in a busy urban environment challenging then there are many extra training courses available to help them cope that little bit better. gazza285 said:
menousername said:
Dg504 said:
I don’t expect driving within the north/south circular will ever get easier and in fairness it should be being discouraged as much as possible.
What if its essential to your work? It depends on the definition of essential though. Laziness and disinclination to use public or non motor vehicle transport don't count as essential.
Newcastle Council are getting in on the act as well, permanently closing 5 bridges to cars to stop tax payers using the roads they've paid for. The one I'm familiar has been subject to a campaign by the local noisy rabble about people using 'their' road as a rat run. The bridge they're closing dates back to the 1,400s so the argument that it's a rat run rather fails there. Never the less, they have lots of Lib Dems on the Council so that's that.
I don't really care one way or another, that bridge was closed for 18 months while some road works were completed and it meant I was able to park at the bridge and walk to and from the office, which was quicker than driving the last bit, so while I was going into the office I was hoping they'd close it for selfish reasons.
But what's noticeable is that by trawling the local Facebook groups and Twitter is that support from the residents is way below 50% yet it has been done anyway for the vocal minority. The effect for the locals is that leaving the area now will concentrate all traffic in one direction and through the town centre and a few other very busy junctions.
There'll be change in some behaviour away from cars too, but it'll be people electing to work from home more at the three big employers nearby, which ultimately support many of the local shops. And the closed road will make a perfect car park for those that don't mind a short walk in the morning.
I'm all for less unnecessary journeys and ultimately lowering the impact of cars on the built environment, but there are sensible ways to achieve that that don't involve shutting roads.
I don't really care one way or another, that bridge was closed for 18 months while some road works were completed and it meant I was able to park at the bridge and walk to and from the office, which was quicker than driving the last bit, so while I was going into the office I was hoping they'd close it for selfish reasons.
But what's noticeable is that by trawling the local Facebook groups and Twitter is that support from the residents is way below 50% yet it has been done anyway for the vocal minority. The effect for the locals is that leaving the area now will concentrate all traffic in one direction and through the town centre and a few other very busy junctions.
There'll be change in some behaviour away from cars too, but it'll be people electing to work from home more at the three big employers nearby, which ultimately support many of the local shops. And the closed road will make a perfect car park for those that don't mind a short walk in the morning.
I'm all for less unnecessary journeys and ultimately lowering the impact of cars on the built environment, but there are sensible ways to achieve that that don't involve shutting roads.
Seattaken said:
Similarly Lambeth have suddenly closed off large areas of residential streets to through traffic under the guise Covid emergency powers. I actually approve its rarely necessary to use a car in London.
What the whole of London?. Including all the parts not covered by the Tube network and where you need to travel between various suburbs. I spent a few years commuting from New Eltham to Crystal Palace. If I wasn't using a car I would have probably been best off using a helicopter.
London is a big place and if you live centrally not having a car might be feasible but that doesn't mean the whole city is like that. Including Lewisham, which is the subject of this thread.
Edited by JagLover on Friday 3rd July 13:25
oyster said:
What do you think the majority opinion will be from the residents of that council?
Remember that the vast majority of residents of Lewisham do not have access to a car.
Having worked in Lewisham and remembering streets lined with cars that sounded like b*llox and looking online 57% of the residents of Lewisham had access to a car in 2001. A figure that had been growing over time so unlikely to have fallen significantly since. Remember that the vast majority of residents of Lewisham do not have access to a car.
Seattaken said:
Similarly Lambeth have suddenly closed off large areas of residential streets to through traffic under the guise Covid emergency powers. I actually approve its rarely necessary to use a car in London.
I agree it is rarely necessary, but currently the advice from the government is not to use public transport, and employers are equally telling staff not to travel on public transport. It is hardly a surprise that car journeys have gone up. Some employers are even paying for rental cars for their employees, to allow them to stay off public transport! If only there was a clear policy on what to do!
Edited by Condi on Friday 3rd July 13:35
JagLover said:
What the whole of London?. Including all the parts not covered by the Tube network and where you need to travel between various suburbs.
I spent a few years commuting from New Eltham to Crystal Palace if I wasn't using a car I would have probably been best off using a helicopter.
London is a big place and if you live centrally not having a car might be feasible but that doesn't mean the whole city is like that. Including Lewisham, which is the subject of this thread.
I spent a few years commuting from New Eltham to Crystal Palace if I wasn't using a car I would have probably been best off using a helicopter.
London is a big place and if you live centrally not having a car might be feasible but that doesn't mean the whole city is like that. Including Lewisham, which is the subject of this thread.
That was a pleasant daytrip on a Sunday Morning - 4h 30m.
Sure, the A4020 was a freeflowing dual carriageway in Uxbridge, but you don't have to go to far towards the centre to hit the near-permanent traffic quagmire. From there, I was faster than the motor traffic.
JagLover said:
What the whole of London?. Including all the parts not covered by the Tube network and where you need to travel between various suburbs.
I spent a few years commuting from New Eltham to Crystal Palace if I wasn't using a car I would have probably been best off using a helicopter.
London is a big place and if you live centrally not having a car might be feasible but that doesn't mean the whole city is like that. Including Lewisham, which is the subject of this thread.
Would two wheels, powered or otherwise not have been best (presuming you’re not an undertaker or something)?I spent a few years commuting from New Eltham to Crystal Palace if I wasn't using a car I would have probably been best off using a helicopter.
London is a big place and if you live centrally not having a car might be feasible but that doesn't mean the whole city is like that. Including Lewisham, which is the subject of this thread.
You only need to look at the make up of traffic going up old Kent road each morning - 90% vans and trucks. Which it should be and which should be facilitated where possible. These aren’t the guys rat running through lewisham though. The problem is the people who don’t understand or can’t comprehend not driving the <5 mile journeys around the borough.
Don’t then get me started on the Facebook crew who still think road tax exists and ‘roads are for my shiny expensive car’ ...
There has been a policy round here of reducing road capacity for the last 10 years after a failed CC proposal. The LA want to screw the roads up as much as possible.
The main way they are doing this is taking any major road that has 2 lanes in each direction and bringing the pavement out into lane 1 thus taking 50% of the capacity away straight away.
Should be illegal to do this, and there is often zero reason to do so.
Here is an example. 4 lanes, 2 each way reduced to 2 lanes 1 each way. Was there a lot of accidents. No. Was there some local protest about traffic. No. Has traffic been sent on another route to ease congestion. No.
And guess what, traffic is now a nightmare and it can take up to an hour to get through this section. Madness. I could name 4 or 5 places within 5 miles of this one thats had the exact same treatment.
The main way they are doing this is taking any major road that has 2 lanes in each direction and bringing the pavement out into lane 1 thus taking 50% of the capacity away straight away.
Should be illegal to do this, and there is often zero reason to do so.
Here is an example. 4 lanes, 2 each way reduced to 2 lanes 1 each way. Was there a lot of accidents. No. Was there some local protest about traffic. No. Has traffic been sent on another route to ease congestion. No.
And guess what, traffic is now a nightmare and it can take up to an hour to get through this section. Madness. I could name 4 or 5 places within 5 miles of this one thats had the exact same treatment.
Someone should let the councils know that the Covid 19 restrictions are being lifted!
Out of curiosity what are the road blocks made out of and can they be moved?
Andy20vt said:
Agreed regarding the road conditions speed humps, cameras etc. Disagree totally when you say bikes and scooters. They have just as much right to be on the road as you and high quality cycle lanes are few and far between at present.
.
Totally agree and guess it is OK for cars and other motor vehicles to use the pavements to get past blockades too..
Out of curiosity what are the road blocks made out of and can they be moved?
oyster said:
rustfalia said:
Idiot councils.
What do you think the majority opinion will be from the residents of that council?Remember that the vast majority of residents of Lewisham do not have access to a car.
Here is a snippet.
A senior TP (transport planner) for Lewisham Council, told the assembly:
“We believe that Healthier Neighbourhoods is a radical solution but is also one that can work and has worked in other parts of London.”
Residents voiced their frustration about not being involved in the initial consultation.
Senior TP said when the council first liaised with residents it was “community engagement” rather than a 'consultation'. (oh dear!)
Senior TP said: “I completely accept that there’s not been a clear message on what’s community engagement and what’s consultation.
What we have done is engaged 'some' (oh dear!) of the community.
We have some 'raw data' (oh dear!)
We wanted to understand what local people felt in the area and so we ran some 'community engagement' (oh dear!) based around getting people’s feeling for the area and their issues around travelling and around their streets. (but apparently most people knew nothing about it!)
Senior TP said one of the main issues raised was concerns about pollution and that 'workshops' (oh dear!) were held to look at solutions to that and rat-running.
“That is where our concept design with the model filters came from. (oh dear, modelling!)
Rest assured we won’t be passing any scheme that can’t pass the resilience test of TfL,” Senior TP added.
But residents remained unconvinced with one, who lives in Morley Road in Lewisham, saying she would have to “drive the entire circuit of the scheme” to get anywhere. The current plans would prevent access to Burnt Ash Hill and Lee Green except via Lewisham High Street or the South Circular Road.
And there's more but I won't add it. You can guess it.
Councils. Run by idiots.
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