Bianca Williams stop accusing race motivated.

[wjb]

Red 4 said:

Segregation is still common place in this country whether you like it or not.
You might like to think that we live in one big, happy, multi cultural society where everyone is 100% tolerant of everyone else. Unfortunately we don't.

Well that's something for you to be proud of then, I suppose.

[Mikebentley]

WJB he’s not saying he’s proud of anything. That’s you applying your bigoted view of his opinions and trying to categorise him. Black, white, mixed or any number of backgrounds we should all try and give everyone else the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is any better than anyone else. If they subsequently prove themselves to be knobs then they are a “Knobs” not “White knobs,Black knobs etc”
I hope if we met in real life you would extend me the same courtesy as I would extend you. If I witness racism I challenge it.

[Red 4]

wjb said:

Red 4 said:

Segregation is still common place in this country whether you like it or not.
You might like to think that we live in one big, happy, multi cultural society where everyone is 100% tolerant of everyone else. Unfortunately we don't.

Well that's something for you to be proud of then, I suppose.

Thanks for the odd reply. I'm not sure why you think segregation is something for me to be proud of.

It is a reality though. Asian communities can be quite insular (for example).
The fact is that people are different (culture, religion, beliefs, etc).
You appear to be saying everyone is the same which is plain wrong.

[98elise]

Red 4 said:

wjb said:

Red 4 said:

Segregation is still common place in this country whether you like it or not.
You might like to think that we live in one big, happy, multi cultural society where everyone is 100% tolerant of everyone else. Unfortunately we don't.

Well that's something for you to be proud of then, I suppose.

Thanks for the odd reply. I'm not sure why you think segregation is something for me to be proud of.

It is a reality though. Asian communities can be quite insular (for example).
The fact is that people are different (culture, religion, beliefs, etc).
You appear to be saying everyone is the same which is plain wrong.

We (humans) are tribal by nature. We tend to form social groups/tribes with people we have a things in common with. That's why you get communities based on language, heritage, religion etc.

The same can be seen abroad with minority white/English speaking expats or immigrants cluster together and socialise together.

[wjb]

Mikebentley said:

WJB he’s not saying he’s proud of anything. That’s you applying your bigoted view of his opinions and trying to categorise him. Black, white, mixed or any number of backgrounds we should all try and give everyone else the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is any better than anyone else. If they subsequently prove themselves to be knobs then they are a “Knobs” not “White knobs,Black knobs etc”
I hope if we met in real life you would extend me the same courtesy as I would extend you. If I witness racism I challenge it.

Bigoted view? In what way?

You say nobody is better than anyone else, I agree.

I'm not sure the "usual suspects" who post on these threads, you know, the same old names that pop up when race is mentioned, would agree.

Read some of the posts on this thread, really read them, read between the lines, not that you always have to...

Same as posts on the BLM thread, or the WLM (deleted) thread, or the Lewis Hamilton thread, etc.

Someone earlier said I had "an agenda" well I don't have an agenda, unless you think calling out racism when I see it an agenda.

Anyway I won't be conversing with people with those views, I've tried before, so why should I? I'll just call them out, they'll deny it and try turn it around on me, and that's fine.

[Red 4]

wjb said:

Mikebentley said:

WJB he’s not saying he’s proud of anything. That’s you applying your bigoted view of his opinions and trying to categorise him. Black, white, mixed or any number of backgrounds we should all try and give everyone else the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is any better than anyone else. If they subsequently prove themselves to be knobs then they are a “Knobs” not “White knobs,Black knobs etc”
I hope if we met in real life you would extend me the same courtesy as I would extend you. If I witness racism I challenge it.

Bigoted view? In what way?

You say nobody is better than anyone else, I agree.

I'm not sure the "usual suspects" who post on these threads, you know, the same old names that pop up when race is mentioned, would agree.

Read some of the posts on this thread, really read them, read between the lines, not that you always have to...

Same as posts on the BLM thread, or the WLM (deleted) thread, or the Lewis Hamilton thread, etc.

Someone earlier said I had "an agenda" well I don't have an agenda, unless you think calling out racism when I see it an agenda.

Anyway I won't be conversing with people with those views, I've tried before, so why should I? I'll just call them out, they'll deny it and try turn it around on me, and that's fine.

So why did you say I should be proud of continuing segregation ?

For the avoidance of doubt I do not recall ever posting on any of the threads you have mentioned. Nor have I expressed any racist views (or hinted at them).

It seems to me that you have a view of how you think things are (or would like them to be) but when people point to your errors and the flaws in your argument then you jump on your high horse and shout "Racist !".

Saying I should be proud of segregation (I have no idea why you said that) is just one example of you spitting the dummy out.

[jimPH]

Fact is, people read what they want to read. One way to do that is "read between the lines".

[anonymous-user]

Mikebentley said:

The crux of the issue for me is that it is a situation of their own making. Whoever thought it a good idea to make off from the Police when asked to stop? That is never going to end well.

The crux of the issue for me is that the authorities don't know how to react when accusations of racism are made.

[Hackney]

andymadmak said:

wjb said:

Why, is her complaint false or malicious?

I don't follow you.

I believe it might very well be. She is claiming racial profiling is what led to her stop and treatment.
The Police are saying the stop came about from the way the vehicle was being driven.
I believe she and her partner were treated the way they were at the stop because of the fact they had driven away when they stopped the first time. ( a fact that Ms Williams does not deny)

So, racial profiling? Or just someone who cannot accept they made a mistake and are making a false complaint to cover their tracks?
What do you think and why?

I find it incredible the number of people who think the clip they’ve seen shoes the result of a stop and search. Seemingly intelligent people unable to see that there was an attempted stop (for whatever reason, racist stop and search or otherwise) but the driver ignored this. Everything that happened after that is because the police were dealing with someone who drove away when told to stop. That’s bloody stupid.

[Dont Panic]

RaymondVanDerDon said:

The crux of the issue for me is that the authorities don't know how to react when accusations of racism are made.

A good point, the police should always react in the same way against such accusations with the words "Prove it", see you in court.
The police are entitled to exactly the same presumption of innocence as any other person and certain "Dicks" shouldnt keep apologising for them doing the job theyre employed to do, especially after some offended attention grabber or other ignores a legal instruction to pull over, just to try and make something out of nothing, probably to boost a less than stellar career.

[Randy Winkman]

98elise said:

Red 4 said:

wjb said:

Red 4 said:

Segregation is still common place in this country whether you like it or not.
You might like to think that we live in one big, happy, multi cultural society where everyone is 100% tolerant of everyone else. Unfortunately we don't.

Well that's something for you to be proud of then, I suppose.

Thanks for the odd reply. I'm not sure why you think segregation is something for me to be proud of.

It is a reality though. Asian communities can be quite insular (for example).
The fact is that people are different (culture, religion, beliefs, etc).
You appear to be saying everyone is the same which is plain wrong.

We (humans) are tribal by nature. We tend to form social groups/tribes with people we have a things in common with. That's why you get communities based on language, heritage, religion etc.

The same can be seen abroad with minority white/English speaking expats or immigrants cluster together and socialise together.

That's true. People have biases and show prejudice. But I don't think we should embrace that fact or use it as an excuse to tolerate bad behaviour.

[stitched]

Randy Winkman said:

98elise said:

Red 4 said:

wjb said:

Red 4 said:

Segregation is still common place in this country whether you like it or not.
You might like to think that we live in one big, happy, multi cultural society where everyone is 100% tolerant of everyone else. Unfortunately we don't.

Well that's something for you to be proud of then, I suppose.

Thanks for the odd reply. I'm not sure why you think segregation is something for me to be proud of.

It is a reality though. Asian communities can be quite insular (for example).
The fact is that people are different (culture, religion, beliefs, etc).
You appear to be saying everyone is the same which is plain wrong.

We (humans) are tribal by nature. We tend to form social groups/tribes with people we have a things in common with. That's why you get communities based on language, heritage, religion etc.

The same can be seen abroad with minority white/English speaking expats or immigrants cluster together and socialise together.

That's true. People have biases and show prejudice. But I don't think we should embrace that fact or use it as an excuse to tolerate bad behaviour.

Yep,
You'll often find people tend to group themselves.
It happens with religion, politics, race and many other categories.
Someone mentioned that they would be peeved if they had been stopped 40 or 50 times for their perceived group.
Firstly there is no evidence available to us that the driver in this case had ever been stopped before.
Second if there is a threat from a certain group I would expect police to concentrate their efforts according to statistics, be that 2 up moped riders, Irish accents when we were at risk, prioritising intelligence gathering among islamic groups or any other set of people.
Again I presume the officers concerned are required to record their on duty actions, why are people not requesting data on the profile of these specific officers choices of stopee over the last year.
Probably because it will fail to evidence their rather hysterical claims.
For the record I believe it is perfectly legal to ignore a request to stop from a police vehicle and drive to a safer stopping place in case of a fake police car being used.
You will be charged with failing to stop but IIRC a belief the car could be a fake and a desire to stop in a place with witnesses used to be a sufficient defence, of course the law might have changed on this.
The behaviour exhibited once they did stop however completely justified the police response.
Pair of entitled dicks who seem to believe they are somehow above the law, IMHO of course

[Pothole]

Dont Panic said:

RaymondVanDerDon said:

The crux of the issue for me is that the authorities don't know how to react when accusations of racism are made.

A good point, the police should always react in the same way against such accusations with the words "Prove it", see you in court.
The police are entitled to exactly the same presumption of innocence as any other person and certain "Dicks" shouldnt keep apologising for them doing the job theyre employed to do, especially after some offended attention grabber or other ignores a legal instruction to pull over, just to try and make something out of nothing, probably to boost a less than stellar career.

I strongly suspect Dick only did as the mayor told her.

[Red 4]

Pothole said:

Dont Panic said:

RaymondVanDerDon said:

The crux of the issue for me is that the authorities don't know how to react when accusations of racism are made.

A good point, the police should always react in the same way against such accusations with the words "Prove it", see you in court.
The police are entitled to exactly the same presumption of innocence as any other person and certain "Dicks" shouldnt keep apologising for them doing the job theyre employed to do, especially after some offended attention grabber or other ignores a legal instruction to pull over, just to try and make something out of nothing, probably to boost a less than stellar career.

I strongly suspect Dick only did as the mayor told her.

Dick has not apologised for the officers' actions. She has said there is no case to answer in relation to allegations of misconduct (although the case has been referred to the IOPC). She said sorry for any distress caused. There's a difference.

[Earthdweller]

Red 4 said:

Dick has not apologised for the officers' actions. She has said there is no case to answer in relation to allegations of misconduct (although the case has been referred to the IOPC). She said sorry for any distress caused. There's a difference.

Whilst you are correct, that fact has been lost in our “15s soundbite world”

The headlines all screamed “Met Police apologise for racially profiling athletes”

It is, without doubt an apology that has massively backfired and had exactly the opposite effect it intended

[Graveworm]

Pothole said:

Dont Panic said:

RaymondVanDerDon said:

The crux of the issue for me is that the authorities don't know how to react when accusations of racism are made.

A good point, the police should always react in the same way against such accusations with the words "Prove it", see you in court.
The police are entitled to exactly the same presumption of innocence as any other person and certain "Dicks" shouldnt keep apologising for them doing the job theyre employed to do, especially after some offended attention grabber or other ignores a legal instruction to pull over, just to try and make something out of nothing, probably to boost a less than stellar career.

I strongly suspect Dick only did as the mayor told her.

Then you really don't know her.

[Dont Panic]

Red 4 said:

Dick has not apologised for the officers' actions. She has said there is no case to answer in relation to allegations of misconduct (although the case has been referred to the IOPC). She said sorry for any distress caused. There's a difference.

Do the police regularly apologise for distress caused to possible suspects being arrested who have failed to stop?

More to the point whey should they?
Bianca the wan..........er athlete created the situation herself, if anyone should be apologising its her, but thatll never happen, her great big chip will get in the way of it, either that or her 4X8 foot race card will.

[Red 4]

Earthdweller said:

Red 4 said:

Dick has not apologised for the officers' actions. She has said there is no case to answer in relation to allegations of misconduct (although the case has been referred to the IOPC). She said sorry for any distress caused. There's a difference.

Whilst you are correct, that fact has been lost in our “15s soundbite world”

The headlines all screamed “Met Police apologise for racially profiling athletes”

It is, without doubt an apology that has massively backfired and had exactly the opposite effect it intended

What was she meant to do ? Offer no apology ? Say "Tough, you shouldn't have behaved like a pair of buffoons" ?

If the press choose to spin what she actually said (as they do) then she can't help that.
The press could also have gone the other way with it and said "Commissioner refuses to apologise for officers stop and search tactics" - or similar.

She actually came across a quite bullish (IMO) during the press conference and put Kuenssberg quite firmly in her place. Dick needs to tread a very fine line given the current climate and I think that this was very much a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I'm sure the troops on the ground would have liked her to tell Williams to jog on but she can't do that.

Edited by Red 4 on Sunday 12th July 12:13

[anonymous-user]

Red 4 said:

What was she meant to do ? Offer no apology ? Say "Tough, you shouldn't have behaved like a pair of buffoons" ?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 12th July 12:13

It would make a refreshing change.

[XCP]

I can't see the fake police car excuse standing up. It was an SPG van with several officers in broad daylight.