Furlough fraud 1st case
Discussion
Cupramax said:
HMRC said:
"As usual, we have built steps in to prevent mistakes and fraud happening in the first place"
Not enough to stop paying out £495k incorrectly though? 
No perfect solution and this is no doubt the first of many such cases as claims are retrospectively investigated.
JagLover said:
Cupramax said:
HMRC said:
"As usual, we have built steps in to prevent mistakes and fraud happening in the first place"
Not enough to stop paying out £495k incorrectly though? No perfect solution and this is no doubt the first of many such cases as claims are retrospectively investigated.
Electro1980 said:
Find me a system that is not at risk of fraud.
This system has no initial checks - so whatever is asked for will be paid, whether the amount being asked for is correct or not. HMRC is pinning its hopes on "catching up" with incorrect frauds (whether fraudulent or errors) later. My hunch is that they will only have the resources to go after the really blatant fraudulent or incorrect claims and that thousands of smaller claims will never get investigated.Eric Mc said:
This system has no initial checks - so whatever is asked for will be paid, whether the amount being asked for is correct or not. HMRC is pinning its hopes on "catching up" with incorrect frauds (whether fraudulent or errors) later. My hunch is that they will only have the resources to go after the really blatant fraudulent or incorrect claims and that thousands of smaller claims will never get investigated.
This isn't true in the slightest.I certainly didn't see much in the way of numerical checks being included in the applications I've made.
If a business was able to receive almost half a million pounds from HMRC, what were HMRC doing at their end to check the application BEFORE they made the payout?
And if you have some insight into the checks HMRC are making, apart from some very rudimentary ones, perhaps you could let us know.
If a business was able to receive almost half a million pounds from HMRC, what were HMRC doing at their end to check the application BEFORE they made the payout?
And if you have some insight into the checks HMRC are making, apart from some very rudimentary ones, perhaps you could let us know.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Do you not have to input the employees name and NI number to make a furlough claim?
You do.I expect that claims were made using false employees. If that is the case, those false employees must have already been on the books before the furlough scheme was created - which in turn would indicate that these false employees were being used to perpetrate other types of frauds.
What beggars belief is that HMRC went ahead and paid the money out in the first place.
Eric Mc said:
You do.
I expect that claims were made using false employees. If that is the case, those false employees must have already been on the books before the furlough scheme was created - which in turn would indicate that these false employees were being used to perpetrate other types of frauds.
What beggars belief is that HMRC went ahead and paid the money out in the first place.
But HMRC know who your PAYE employees are, and I think only those previously reported under RTI could be claimed for. So HMRC can do real time ratification at the time of the claim.I expect that claims were made using false employees. If that is the case, those false employees must have already been on the books before the furlough scheme was created - which in turn would indicate that these false employees were being used to perpetrate other types of frauds.
What beggars belief is that HMRC went ahead and paid the money out in the first place.
Surely they are doing this?
Eric Mc said:
I certainly didn't see much in the way of numerical checks being included in the applications I've made.
If a business was able to receive almost half a million pounds from HMRC, what were HMRC doing at their end to check the application BEFORE they made the payout?
And if you have some insight into the checks HMRC are making, apart from some very rudimentary ones, perhaps you could let us know.
I guess there's two types of fraud:If a business was able to receive almost half a million pounds from HMRC, what were HMRC doing at their end to check the application BEFORE they made the payout?
And if you have some insight into the checks HMRC are making, apart from some very rudimentary ones, perhaps you could let us know.
- Business applies for furlough for the employees are still working and the business is still doing well.
- Person applies for furlough for a business they have no connection with, and receives payments into their bank account.
The article mentions the person has a business, so I assume it's the former and they have a couple of hundred employees, some of whom reported the company. I guess HMRC could also detect businesses still trading by using VAT returns and various other data they have access to?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
But HMRC know who your PAYE employees are, and I think only those previously reported under RTI could be claimed for. So HMRC can do real time ratification at the time of the claim.
Surely they are doing this?
Some firms "may" have claimed to have re-engaged terminated or old employees in order to claim.....Surely they are doing this?
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