Refugees / Asylum seekers crossing the channel

Refugees / Asylum seekers crossing the channel

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Discussion

BrundanBianchi

1,106 posts

44 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
There’s just been a lot of activity at the docks in Southampton ( again ) it seems that another load of stowaways have been found on a freighter. So it looks like this is the new way they’re getting to the U.K. then, now that the weather isn’t so good, and there’s less daylight.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BrundanBianchi said:
There’s just been a lot of activity at the docks in Southampton ( again ) it seems that another load of stowaways have been found on a freighter. So it looks like this is the new way they’re getting to the U.K. then, now that the weather isn’t so good, and there’s less daylight.
Should be an easy catch for the authorities now then.

BrundanBianchi

1,106 posts

44 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Alucidnation said:
Should be an easy catch for the authorities now then.
Let’s hope so. They are Albanians, who I believe won’t have any valid claim for asylum. I believe that bringing them in on freighters removes the argument that they should have claimed asylum in the first place they arrived, not travel through several countries, then claim asylum here.



Edited by BrundanBianchi on Wednesday 28th October 17:34

Legacywr

12,017 posts

187 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
Porsche guy said:
Lord Marylebone said:
..... the reasons for wanting to come to the UK than the asylum seekers who were interviewed and gave their reasons.

Bizarre, but there you go.

You think whatever makes you happy. (or angry. I'm convinced some of you just want to be angry)
And you expect them to tell the truth after they've destroyed their passports!

When ever I've seen the dingies on the news, they're mostly full of young men
What are you going on about?

My post was stating the reasons they give for wanting to reach the UK, when interviewed by various news teams and charities while still in France.

Why are you talking about destroying passports or being 'young men'?
I guess he’s referring to the statements by UK police, that most often, when apprehended, these migrants aren’t carrying any documents, or mobile phones with them.

Tom Logan

3,191 posts

124 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Alucidnation said:
Well, considering English is supposed to be one of the most complicated languages to learn, they will pick up French etc quite easily.
I think most suggest English is one of the easiest languages to learn.
It was a piece of piss for me, a Lancs lad.

biggrin

Tom Logan

3,191 posts

124 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Condi said:
What is Alp expecting? A French police officer in every port and at every beach to stop them? There are a few hundred miles of coastline littered with ports, harbors and beaches which can be used to load people onto boats. The smugglers are being paid thousands per trip and so there is a huge incentive for them to carry on and find a way to set sail. If he really thought it was simple to "stop them sailing" I'm sure the French would already have done so.

You simply cannot patrol hundreds of miles of coastline and expect vessels not to set sail, especially when there are many legal and legitimate boats using the same ports and routes.
Drones.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Condi said:
....
You simply cannot patrol hundreds of miles of coastline and expect vessels not to set sail, especially when there are many legal and legitimate boats using the same ports and routes.
I'm doubtful dinghies full of refugees are setting off from the same ports as legit' traffic...but if they are, one would think they would be sticking out like a sore thumb...smile

Condi

17,089 posts

170 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
I'm doubtful dinghies full of refugees are setting off from the same ports as legit' traffic...but if they are, one would think they would be sticking out like a sore thumb...smile
No, but what I mean is you can't simply monitor the Channel for dodgy traffic using radar or whatever, because there are many vessels using it (both large and small) for perfectly legal reasons. Sailing vessels frequently travel between France and the UK via smaller ports, and there is nothing at all illegal about you or I buying a RIB and setting off for France.

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Condi said:
Just reading an article about the family who died yesterday, and I do wonder what some people think the French can actually do about it?

news said:
Meanwhile, Alp Mehmet, from Migration Watch, blamed French officials for not preventing the 'totally avoidable' tragedy.

He told Talk Radio: 'Why didn't they stop them from sailing in the first place? We are talking about a lot of people in a big boat, someone should have noticed.'

The tragedy will intensify the pressure on the Government to broker a deal with the French to finally stop the crossings.
What is Alp expecting? A French police officer in every port and at every beach to stop them? There are a few hundred miles of coastline littered with ports, harbors and beaches which can be used to load people onto boats. The smugglers are being paid thousands per trip and so there is a huge incentive for them to carry on and find a way to set sail. If he really thought it was simple to "stop them sailing" I'm sure the French would already have done so.

You simply cannot patrol hundreds of miles of coastline and expect vessels not to set sail, especially when there are many legal and legitimate boats using the same ports and routes.
The majority of crossings arrive onshore between Dover and Deal, many around St Margarets Bay, the exceptions being those crossings that are intercepted by Border Force, these are then taken into Dover Port.

Most of the crossings start from beaches between Calais and Dunkirk (shortest distance to beaches in Kent).
The coastline between Calais and Dunkirk is approx 44 miles.

There is no need to patrol hundreds of miles of French coastline, the French know only too well where the most popular beaches are for where these crossings are organised and start from.

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Condi said:
What is Alp expecting? A French police officer in every port and at every beach to stop them? There are a few hundred miles of coastline littered with ports, harbors and beaches which can be used to load people onto boats. The smugglers are being paid thousands per trip and so there is a huge incentive for them to carry on and find a way to set sail. If he really thought it was simple to "stop them sailing" I'm sure the French would already have done so.

You simply cannot patrol hundreds of miles of coastline and expect vessels not to set sail, especially when there are many legal and legitimate boats using the same ports and routes.
Sure you can. We have these destroyers that can spot a Bluetit having a dump at a range of 200 miles, they can certainly spot a rubber boat at 10 miles.

If people are going to be deterred from doing this, there needs to be a simple rule: you will be intercepted by the French or UK military and returned to France. Doesn’t matter where you are in the Channel, you are going back to France. If you jump overboard to avoid being returned to France, you will be boathooked into the boat, or left to swim. The fact that you are going to be left to swim (and probably drown) will be relayed to you in all languages currently used by asylum seekers.

Any other response will encourage people to make perilous journeys. The only way to stop them doing this is making the odds of succeeding vanishingly small.

Condi

17,089 posts

170 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
rxe said:
Sure you can. We have these destroyers that can spot a Bluetit having a dump at a range of 200 miles, they can certainly spot a rubber boat at 10 miles.

If people are going to be deterred from doing this, there needs to be a simple rule: you will be intercepted by the French or UK military and returned to France. Doesn’t matter where you are in the Channel, you are going back to France.
1) Yes, they can spot a rubber dinghy no doubt, but some/many of those will be perfectly legal journeys by French or British people and the Border Force are going to be very busy if they stop every single pleasure craft leaving a French port.

2) Except that once they are in British waters they become our responsibility and we can't just "take them back". Besides, having control of our waters is a big thing for Brexit Britain and have been the sticking point behind trade negotiations with Brussels. You would have thought if the UK is going to place so much importance on our sovereignty and banning EU fishing vessels then we'd understand that with rights come responsibilities. hehe You can't on the one hand cry that you want your own waters back, and then on the other hand illegally send people back to French waters just because you don't like them being there!

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Condi said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm doubtful dinghies full of refugees are setting off from the same ports as legit' traffic...but if they are, one would think they would be sticking out like a sore thumb...smile
No, but what I mean is you can't simply monitor the Channel for dodgy traffic using radar or whatever, because there are many vessels using it (both large and small) for perfectly legal reasons. Sailing vessels frequently travel between France and the UK via smaller ports, and there is nothing at all illegal about you or I buying a RIB and setting off for France.
It will only be a short stretch of coast line around dunkerque and calais, the shortest distance, a reporter was watching some launch from a beach and phoned the police, who weren't interested.
It could be stopped now if they were returned to France, if you do get to stay why set off ?

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
As pointed out above, they can only be returned to France if they are stopped in French waters, which would require the French stopping them?

If we stop them in UK waters then we cannot just take them back to France.

Jazzy Jag

3,412 posts

90 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
As pointed out above, they can only be returned to France if they are stopped in French waters, which would require the French stopping them?

If we stop them in UK waters then we cannot just take them back to France.
How would the French stop them being returned?


Tom Logan

3,191 posts

124 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
It will only be a short stretch of coast line around dunkerque and calais, the shortest distance, a reporter was watching some launch from a beach and phoned the police, who weren't interested.
It could be stopped now if they were returned to France, if you do get to stay why set off ?
The french authorities aren't interested in stopping them, quite the opposite, they want rid and are only too happy to turn a blind eye and allow the migrants to embark on their jaunt.

One other thing to consider is that the gendarmerie/douane work 'office hours' and don't normally turn out at night unless there is an emergency, anyone who has driven overnight through France will know this. The migrants will almost have a clear run from the beach during the hours of darkness for the above reason.

Stan the Bat

8,843 posts

211 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
Porsche guy said:
Lord Marylebone said:
..... the reasons for wanting to come to the UK than the asylum seekers who were interviewed and gave their reasons.

Bizarre, but there you go.

You think whatever makes you happy. (or angry. I'm convinced some of you just want to be angry)
And you expect them to tell the truth after they've destroyed their passports!

When ever I've seen the dingies on the news, they're mostly full of young men
What are you going on about?

My post was stating the reasons they give for wanting to reach the UK, when interviewed by various news teams and charities while still in France.

Why are you talking about destroying passports or being 'young men'?
You're a bit deluded mate.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Stan the Bat said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Porsche guy said:
Lord Marylebone said:
..... the reasons for wanting to come to the UK than the asylum seekers who were interviewed and gave their reasons.

Bizarre, but there you go.

You think whatever makes you happy. (or angry. I'm convinced some of you just want to be angry)
And you expect them to tell the truth after they've destroyed their passports!

When ever I've seen the dingies on the news, they're mostly full of young men
What are you going on about?

My post was stating the reasons they give for wanting to reach the UK, when interviewed by various news teams and charities while still in France.

Why are you talking about destroying passports or being 'young men'?
You're a bit deluded mate.
I’m not deluded, I just like an accurate conversation “mate”.

I’m fully aware that many migrants arrive with no documents, but that wasn’t what we were talking about, hence my query.

We were talking about the reasons that migrants give for wanting to come to the UK, which I provided. 'Porsche guy' quoted me and randomly started going on about something totally different, which just didn't make any sense.

Any issues with that?


Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 18:59

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
As pointed out above, they can only be returned to France if they are stopped in French waters, which would require the French stopping them?

If we stop them in UK waters then we cannot just take them back to France.
That’s the agreement we need to come to with the French.

If we can get to that agreement, they’ll stop dying in the channel, they either apply properly for asylum in France or UK, or if they know they have no chance (because they’re economic migrants) they’ll go home. Everyone wins, including the migrants.

At the moment both France and the UK are dangling some illusion that as long as they make it half way, they’re fine. This leads to them drowning in tragic accidents.

Stan the Bat

8,843 posts

211 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
Stan the Bat said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Porsche guy said:
Lord Marylebone said:
..... the reasons for wanting to come to the UK than the asylum seekers who were interviewed and gave their reasons.

Bizarre, but there you go.

You think whatever makes you happy. (or angry. I'm convinced some of you just want to be angry)
And you expect them to tell the truth after they've destroyed their passports!

When ever I've seen the dingies on the news, they're mostly full of young men
What are you going on about?

My post was stating the reasons they give for wanting to reach the UK, when interviewed by various news teams and charities while still in France.

Why are you talking about destroying passports or being 'young men'?
You're a bit deluded mate.
I’m not deluded, I just like an accurate conversation “mate”.

I’m fully aware that many migrants arrive with no documents, but that wasn’t what we were talking about, hence my query.

We were talking about the reasons that migrants give for wanting to come to the UK, which I provided. 'Porsche guy' quoted me and randomly started going on about something totally different, which just didn't make any sense.

Any issues with that?


Edited by Lord Marylebone on Wednesday 28th October 18:59
You believe all the reasons they give then---deluded, dude.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
rxe said:
Lord Marylebone said:
As pointed out above, they can only be returned to France if they are stopped in French waters, which would require the French stopping them?

If we stop them in UK waters then we cannot just take them back to France.
That’s the agreement we need to come to with the French.

If we can get to that agreement, they’ll stop dying in the channel, they either apply properly for asylum in France or UK, or if they know they have no chance (because they’re economic migrants) they’ll go home. Everyone wins, including the migrants.

At the moment both France and the UK are dangling some illusion that as long as they make it half way, they’re fine. This leads to them drowning in tragic accidents.
Yes, I totally agree that we need some form of agreement along those lines with France as part of solving the issue.

Whether that will be forthcoming or not is anyones guess.