If masks become compulsory in shops (Vol. 2)
Discussion
JagLover said:
Yes
Most of this is driven by ignorance of how viruses usually behave and which is presented by the media as some scary new thing with this virus.
Post viral fatigue is common and has been known about for years. It is far lower in Covid-19 patients than in those recovering from Glandular fever. I cannot find the stats online, but 1.5% after three months is probably the same sort of percentage as those recovering from seasonal Flu.
.
Where are you getting 1.5% from?Most of this is driven by ignorance of how viruses usually behave and which is presented by the media as some scary new thing with this virus.
Post viral fatigue is common and has been known about for years. It is far lower in Covid-19 patients than in those recovering from Glandular fever. I cannot find the stats online, but 1.5% after three months is probably the same sort of percentage as those recovering from seasonal Flu.
.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29... 50% is a bit higher than 1.5%
scottyp123 said:
Charlies Veitch's latest video about masks and control, he goes on a bit at first about how he was oppressed in ASDA until about 9 minutes 50 seconds, then he has a mini rant about masks. Nothing too serious or heavy, I just thought the bit about the woman in the lift was funny.
What an unpleasant person.Graveworm said:
JagLover said:
Yes
Most of this is driven by ignorance of how viruses usually behave and which is presented by the media as some scary new thing with this virus.
Post viral fatigue is common and has been known about for years. It is far lower in Covid-19 patients than in those recovering from Glandular fever. I cannot find the stats online, but 1.5% after three months is probably the same sort of percentage as those recovering from seasonal Flu.
.
Where are you getting 1.5% from?Most of this is driven by ignorance of how viruses usually behave and which is presented by the media as some scary new thing with this virus.
Post viral fatigue is common and has been known about for years. It is far lower in Covid-19 patients than in those recovering from Glandular fever. I cannot find the stats online, but 1.5% after three months is probably the same sort of percentage as those recovering from seasonal Flu.
.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29... 50% is a bit higher than 1.5%
isaldiri said:
You are out of your mind if you think 50% getting 'long covid' is the average for everyone getting infected. Out of that cohort in the study half were severe enough to have been admitted to hospital. Maybe 3% of all infections are actually severe enough to actually require admission.
And the other half were not severe enough and there was no difference in the percentages between the two cohorts, indeed it was kind of the point of the study. Do you have a different study with different outcomes?
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
grumbledoak said:
alangla said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54748253 - Masks in the classroom now.
Evil.bad company said:
semisane said:
vixen1700 said:
semisane said:
From your perspective
Why not try some critical thinking and put yourself in the shoes of the 'jumpers' .... ?
I have done and my conclusion is exactly the same, insane.Why not try some critical thinking and put yourself in the shoes of the 'jumpers' .... ?
1/10 - no contentperhaps they are elderly, anxious, frightened (possibly only read DM and watch the 'news'), frail, have comorbidities, possibility not as clever as some to realise it is only a 'cold', are carers - the list goes on and on (in my world any way)
but its just so much easier for some to label them 'jumpers' I s'pose
I reckon most are just stupid or naturally compliant.
Nothing wrong with being below average intelligence ('stupid' in your world) or compliant, so bit of a none post / issue .....except for those that feel the need to ridicule others perhaps not as fortunate as themselves - not a very good trait imho
Graveworm said:
And the other half were not severe enough and there was no difference in the percentages between the two cohorts, indeed it was kind of the point of the study.
Do you have a different study with different outcomes?
There are about 6% of the UK population estimated to have gotten covid. that's about 4m people. You are actually seriously suggesting that 2m people here have long covid....? Do you have a different study with different outcomes?
isaldiri said:
There are about 6% of the UK population estimated to have gotten covid. that's about 4m people. You are actually seriously suggesting that 2m people here have long covid....?
I am not suggesting anything. I am saying that's what the empirical data from that study seems to suggest although they talk about people who had some symptoms so it may not include asymptomatic infections. I think a French study found the same. A German study https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fu...suggests 78 odd percent have heart issues, most of those tested were previously healthy with an average age of 49.
Don't you think it's enough to warrant further research, before we assume it's no big deal and it just kills a handful of people a few days early and there are no other health consequences to speak of?
A couple of new mask related papers currently being censored by researchgate.net are reproduced here -
https://pdmj.org/
It's The Wrong Conclusions, Gromit!
https://pdmj.org/
It's The Wrong Conclusions, Gromit!
Graveworm said:
I am not suggesting anything. I am saying that's what the empirical data from that study seems to suggest although they talk about people who had some symptoms so it may not include asymptomatic infections. I think a French study found the same.
Don't you think it's enough to warrant further research, before we assume it's no big deal and it just kills a handful of people a few days early and there are no other health consequences to speak of?
It does nothing of the sort it’s a study of those who have recovered from an “acute infection”. It specifically states in the article that of the small sample 55% had been hospitalised with covid and the remainder had received outpatient treatment. Given that the overwhelming majority of covid cases don’t require any medical intervention whatsoever it categorically does not suggest anything like the claim you originally made.Don't you think it's enough to warrant further research, before we assume it's no big deal and it just kills a handful of people a few days early and there are no other health consequences to speak of?
To your second paragraph, absolutely.
Graveworm said:
isaldiri said:
There are about 6% of the UK population estimated to have gotten covid. that's about 4m people. You are actually seriously suggesting that 2m people here have long covid....?
I am not suggesting anything. I am saying that's what the empirical data from that study seems to suggest although they talk about people who had some symptoms so it may not include asymptomatic infections. I think a French study found the same. A German study https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fu...suggests 78 odd percent have heart issues, most of those tested were previously healthy with an average age of 49.
Don't you think it's enough to warrant further research, before we assume it's no big deal and it just kills a handful of people a few days early and there are no other health consequences to speak of?
The preprint from the zoe app analysis suggests 1 in 20 might have signs of long covid. That sounds vaguely plausible. You posting of a study to try to suggest long covid is at 50% is simply nonsensical given the numbers of people involved as we quite obviously don't have literally millions of people having long covid.
isaldiri said:
Graveworm said:
isaldiri said:
There are about 6% of the UK population estimated to have gotten covid. that's about 4m people. You are actually seriously suggesting that 2m people here have long covid....?
I am not suggesting anything. I am saying that's what the empirical data from that study seems to suggest although they talk about people who had some symptoms so it may not include asymptomatic infections. I think a French study found the same. A German study https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fu...suggests 78 odd percent have heart issues, most of those tested were previously healthy with an average age of 49.
Don't you think it's enough to warrant further research, before we assume it's no big deal and it just kills a handful of people a few days early and there are no other health consequences to speak of?
The preprint from the zoe app analysis suggests 1 in 20 might have signs of long covid. That sounds vaguely plausible. You posting of a study to try to suggest long covid is at 50% is simply nonsensical given the numbers of people involved as we quite obviously don't have literally millions of people having long covid.
djc206 said:
It does nothing of the sort it’s a study of those who have recovered from an “acute infection”. It specifically states in the article that of the small sample 55% had been hospitalised with covid and the remainder had received outpatient treatment. Given that the overwhelming majority of covid cases don’t require any medical intervention whatsoever it categorically does not suggest anything like the claim you originally made.
To your second paragraph, absolutely.
SARS "One" had about 40 percent, 4 years later so it's not like there isn't something comparable. To your second paragraph, absolutely.
In the study they found the same percentages, in those admitted and those who were not admitted, which is the point of the study. Acute is just the opposite of chronic as this is literally saying there appear to be chronic issues.
But at least we agree there needs to be some more research.
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 30th October 18:17
DocJock said:
scottyp123 said:
Charlies Veitch's latest video about masks and control, he goes on a bit at first about how he was oppressed in ASDA until about 9 minutes 50 seconds, then he has a mini rant about masks. Nothing too serious or heavy, I just thought the bit about the woman in the lift was funny.
What an unpleasant person.Graveworm said:
That's the corrected version.
Where they changed a lot of numbers but not the conclusions. Which was utterly bizarre. And as was pointed out compared vs a fully healthy cohort it's utterly incorrect compared to comparison to a risk adjusted cohort. 80% myocarditis or whatever it claimed due to covid was just plainly an incorrect one.
Graveworm said:
SARS "One" had about 40 percent, 4 years later so it's not like there isn't something comparable.
Sars1, a vastly more serious disease that put a hell of a lot of patients in icu. Comparison of long after effects to sars-cov2 would be absurd given the far less severe incidence of disease. People who have severe disease end up with long dated complications - not exactly a shock.Edited by isaldiri on Friday 30th October 18:24
isaldiri said:
Where they changed a lot of numbers but not the conclusions. Which was utterly bizarre.
And as was pointed out compared vs a fully healthy cohort it's utterly incorrect compared to comparison to a risk adjusted cohort. 80% myocarditis or whatever it claimed due to covid was just plainly an incorrect one.
The majority were previously healthy. The leader of the study said that they were relatively young, healthy patients who fell ill in the spring, Many of them had just returned from ski vacations. None of them thought they had anything wrong with their hearts. And as was pointed out compared vs a fully healthy cohort it's utterly incorrect compared to comparison to a risk adjusted cohort. 80% myocarditis or whatever it claimed due to covid was just plainly an incorrect one.
SlimJim16v said:
I've read a lot about long covid, 5% is the most common figure I've been seeing. 50% would be frightening if it was true.
Viral infections often have long term symptoms. People can suffer loss of energy for a couple of years after glandular fever, they can die from viral myocardiitis, after a bout of flu lung function can take many months to return tp pre virus levels of functioning.
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