Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 5)

[turbobloke]

The echo chamber says brainwashed with their personal attacks substituting for rational discussion.

Irony off the scale.

[markyb_lcy]

turbobloke said:

The echo chamber says brainwashed with their personal attacks substituting for rational discussion.

Irony off the scale.

How can a generalisation be a personal attack? Muppet.

[Alucidnation]

markyb_lcy said:

turbobloke said:

The echo chamber says brainwashed with their personal attacks substituting for rational discussion.

Irony off the scale.

How can a generalisation be a personal attack? Muppet.

Come on, no need for name calling.

I had you down as one of the more intelligent posters.

[markyb_lcy]

Alucidnation said:

Come on, no need for name calling.

I had you down as one of the more intelligent posters.

Well it’s a pretty silly thing to say, is it not, that I’m engaging in personal attacks when the target of my comment is “many of these lot”?

[Crackie]

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

IYO - others think differently - something you struggle with

Oh there is a big difference between "thinking differently" and not being able to exhibit basic human emotions.

That's where this thread has got to. There is no debate to be had. It is just people spouting abhorrent things and supporting a Government doing abhorrent things and then crying when others point it out.

That's not discussion. That's just people using the forum as a place to spout bile and explore the depths of their personality defects.

It is fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

You could have simply said "Good night chaps, I've completely lost the plot and all sense of perspective. I'm not thinking rationally and think that people who disagree with me, regarding how best to tackle childhood poverty, must have mental health issues".

[Disastrous]

Workhouses.

Ffs. Beyond parody. Love it.

What can you even say to that?? You have to assume slavery is back on the table too?

[markyb_lcy]

Disastrous said:

Workhouses.

Ffs. Beyond parody. Love it.

What can you even say to that?? You have to assume slavery is back on the table too?

You might have missed it, but we’ve also had forced sterilisation too

[stitched]

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

IYO - others think differently - something you struggle with

Oh there is a big difference between "thinking differently" and not being able to exhibit basic human emotions.

That's where this thread has got to. There is no debate to be had. It is just people spouting abhorrent things and supporting a Government doing abhorrent things and then crying when others point it out.

That's not discussion. That's just people using the forum as a place to spout bile and explore the depths of their personality defects.

It is fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

If a child goes hungry in this country it is for a reason, there is a slim possibility their parents have managed to find themselves a niche in the system leaving them with insufficient resources to feed their children.
Any case like this requires action asap.
Alternatively, IMHO more likely the parent/parents have prioritised other things as an alternative to providing food for their children, again action required asap but feeding their kids whilst continuing to provide sufficient resource is not fixing the problem.

[bitchstewie]

Disastrous said:

Workhouses.

Ffs. Beyond parody. Love it.

What can you even say to that?? You have to assume slavery is back on the table too?

Oh you have to remember they were driven to it by the rhetoric from all those terrible ignorant people saying "feed the kids".

Oddly enough I'm all for community initiatives and I do sometimes wonder if more could be done on that front as it's not always about financial support it's about that sense of purpose and self-worth.

I'm not convinced that's what people are talking about here though.

That's the joy of PH. You can suggest feeding kids and a pack of wolves will descend saying you have your priorities all wrong or you can suggest bringing back workhouses and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Funny old game.

[chrispmartha]

stitched said:

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

IYO - others think differently - something you struggle with

Oh there is a big difference between "thinking differently" and not being able to exhibit basic human emotions.

That's where this thread has got to. There is no debate to be had. It is just people spouting abhorrent things and supporting a Government doing abhorrent things and then crying when others point it out.

That's not discussion. That's just people using the forum as a place to spout bile and explore the depths of their personality defects.

It is fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

If a child goes hungry in this country it is for a reason, there is a slim possibility their parents have managed to find themselves a niche in the system leaving them with insufficient resources to feed their children.
Any case like this requires action asap.
Alternatively, IMHO more likely the parent/parents have prioritised other things as an alternative to providing food for their children, again action required asap but feeding their kids whilst continuing to provide sufficient resource is not fixing the problem.

It’s fixing the immediate problem of the kids not being fed, has anyone actually stated it fixes the root of the problem, you can try fix the immediate issue and the root of the issue, they are not mutually exclusive.

Crap analogy alert. Have you ever had a temporary filling for a failed root canal? I have, it didn’t fix the actual cause of the issue but it stopped the pain whilst I waited for the actual problem to be fixed.

[don'tbesilly]

bhstewie said:

Disastrous said:

Workhouses.

Ffs. Beyond parody. Love it.

What can you even say to that?? You have to assume slavery is back on the table too?

Oh you have to remember they were driven to it by the rhetoric from all those terrible ignorant people saying "feed the kids".

Oddly enough I'm all for community initiatives and I do sometimes wonder if more could be done on that front as it's not always about financial support it's about that sense of purpose and self-worth.

I'm not convinced that's what people are talking about here though.

That's the joy of PH. You can suggest feeding kids and a pack of wolves will descend saying you have your priorities all wrong or you can suggest bringing back workhouses and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Funny old game.

Who was it that suggested bringing back workhouses?
Or did you just make that up?

Edit: It was Red 4 who suggested bringing back workhouses, so you didn't make it up.

Edited by don'tbesilly on Wednesday 28th October 08:18

[bitchstewie]

don'tbesilly said:

Who was it that suggested bringing back workhouses?
Or did you just make that up?

"My father and his brother spent some time in a workhouse when they were children, they did not like it but it did them both the world of good. They worked hard were both successful and were able to provide their children with a good home and food on the table everyday. Great idea."

In fairness saying they're a "great idea" isn't directly suggesting bringing them back.

Good boy

[markyb_lcy]

stitched said:

If a child goes hungry in this country it is for a reason, there is a slim possibility their parents have managed to find themselves a niche in the system leaving them with insufficient resources to feed their children.
Any case like this requires action asap.
Alternatively, IMHO more likely the parent/parents have prioritised other things as an alternative to providing food for their children, again action required asap but feeding their kids whilst continuing to provide sufficient resource is not fixing the problem.

Reasonable comments (although I don’t agree with your weighting of “slim possibility” and “more likely”).

You’re right, feeding the hungry child doesn’t fix the (root of the) problem. It’s a sticky plaster, but a reasonable and required one.

Root causes still need to also be fixed. In some cases that is support for parents (and not just financial support - mental health support for example, which in this country is by all accounts not that easy to access on the NHS). The alternatives to supporting the parents are to take children into care (I’m going to discount silly suggestions like workhouses and forced sterilisation on ethical grounds). This costs much, much more and carries other problems for the children.

[don'tbesilly]

bhstewie said:

don'tbesilly said:

Who was it that suggested bringing back workhouses?
Or did you just make that up?

"My father and his brother spent some time in a workhouse when they were children, they did not like it but it did them both the world of good. They worked hard were both successful and were able to provide their children with a good home and food on the table everyday. Great idea."

In fairness saying they're a "great idea" isn't directly suggesting bringing them back.

Good boy

Vanden Saab said:

Red 4 said:

Vanden Saab said:

Red 4 said:

I'm surprised nobody in government has come up with the idea of a return to workhouses TBH.

Make the kids work for their supper. They can make PPE for the NHS for now (we'll think what else they can make post pandemic if that time ever comes).
Government provide a roof over their heads. Keeps 'em fed and watered. Visiting rights for parents (for a minimal fee) once a week, etc etc.

This will teach them all about the work ethic and the country will be stronger as a result.
The downsides are minimal.
Who's up for it ? Turbobloke ? Tuna ? What say you ?

My father and his brother spent some time in a workhouse when they were children, they did not like it but it did them both the world of good. They worked hard were both successful and were able to provide their children with a good home and food on the table everyday. Great idea.

The problem is, there are laws against this kind of stuff now.

Modern slavery and all that blah. What do you think ? Should we take the Victorians as our role models and take a trip down memory lane a la JagLover with his history lesson on malnourishment in the scum class back then or should we adust the workhouse model ?
Even a bit ?

At least down the coal mines nodoby can hear the kids scream.

I welcome your suggestions.

Where is your line then, once you have fed every child what is next. To coin a phrase what is your exit strategy? We provide child allowance specifically to make sure that children are fed and clothed but £21.05 for the first child and £13.95 for any others is not enough. Now everybody has to pay for these same children to eat at school and at home and you can guarantee that once some parents realise that they can get an extra ££££ in their pocket if they do not feed their kids they will do it...

Good lad

[bitchstewie]

See now you're getting the hang of it.

Pop it in your little ring binder.

[don'tbesilly]

bhstewie said:

See now you're getting the hang of it.

Pop it in your little ring binder.

You're going down the IForB route, lying.

How embarrassing

[bitchstewie]

markyb_lcy said:

Reasonable comments (although I don’t agree with your weighting of “slim possibility” and “more likely”).

You’re right, feeding the hungry child doesn’t fix the (root of the) problem. It’s a sticky plaster, but a reasonable and required one.

Root causes still need to also be fixed. In some cases that is support for parents (and not just financial support - mental health support for example, which in this country is by all accounts not that easy to access on the NHS). The alternatives to supporting the parents are to take children into care (I’m going to discount silly suggestions like workhouses and forced sterilisation on ethical grounds). This costs much, much more and carries other problems for the children.

I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that the measures Rashford has suggested and that have received so much backing are anything other than a sticking plaster.

People seem to be conflating short-term sticking plaster fixes with a long term solution.

I doubt anyone is against reviewing the entire system or "whatever it takes" to put a robust long term solution in place.

The simple and obvious point is that won't happen overnight.

The kids in the tweet I posted did go to bed full last night though.

[markyb_lcy]

bhstewie said:

I doubt anyone is against reviewing the entire system or "whatever it takes" to put a robust long term solution in place.

The simple and obvious point is that won't happen overnight.

The kids in the tweet I posted did go to bed full last night though.

Well the current party of govt have had 10 years to do something about it to avoid the need for these sticking plasters. I dare say the govts that came before them could have done more too. Of course nobody could have known we were due an epidemic and nobody could have foreseen we would react in the extreme way we have, but if the system is one crisis away from leaving kids hungry then it is unsustainable and not fit for purpose.

[130R]

markyb_lcy said:

bhstewie said:

I doubt anyone is against reviewing the entire system or "whatever it takes" to put a robust long term solution in place.

The simple and obvious point is that won't happen overnight.

The kids in the tweet I posted did go to bed full last night though.

Well the current party of govt have had 10 years to do something about it to avoid the need for these sticking plasters. I dare say the govts that came before them could have done more too. Of course nobody could have known we were due an epidemic and nobody could have foreseen we would react in the extreme way we have, but if the system is one crisis away from leaving kids hungry then it is unsustainable.

We don't need a separate policy for taxpayer financed meals. We have Universal Credit in this country. Either that is set at an acceptable level or it isn't. If it isn't then that should be addressed. If it is but some people need more support then local authorities should give that support with additional money they have already been given. This is how a government should function rather than letting premier league footballers dictate policy on the hoof because this political football is being used to influence simpletons that think meals are 'free' and children in the UK are 'starving'.

[markyb_lcy]

130R said:

markyb_lcy said:

bhstewie said:

I doubt anyone is against reviewing the entire system or "whatever it takes" to put a robust long term solution in place.

The simple and obvious point is that won't happen overnight.

The kids in the tweet I posted did go to bed full last night though.

Well the current party of govt have had 10 years to do something about it to avoid the need for these sticking plasters. I dare say the govts that came before them could have done more too. Of course nobody could have known we were due an epidemic and nobody could have foreseen we would react in the extreme way we have, but if the system is one crisis away from leaving kids hungry then it is unsustainable.

We don't need a separate policy for taxpayer financed meals. We have Universal Credit in this country. Either that is set at an acceptable level or it isn't. If it isn't then that should be addressed. If it is but some people need more support then local authorities should give that support with additional money they have already been given. This is how a government should function rather than letting premier league footballers dictate policy on the hoof because this political football is being used to influence simpletons that think meals are 'free' and children in the UK are 'starving'.

UC has been fraught with problems from the start. Not necessarily amounts of the payments but the waiting lists (or rather forced waiting periods) for accessing help. My reading of it is that it was made intentionally that way so less people would see it as an “easy option”. If so then we have to accept there are other consequences to that.

As for the additional funds to local councils... they have literally only just got this money, or been pledged it. I’m sure we can all appreciate these things take time to set up.