Laurence Fox - New Political Party

Laurence Fox - New Political Party

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A Winner Is You

24,942 posts

226 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
doesthiswork said:
Just what we need, an upper-class white man, who has enjoyed every priveledge in life, telling us what racism is and isn't.
Hey! It's tough to be born into an acting dynasty, enjoy the finest education available, receive a plethora of life advantages and still get a career off the ground. It's hard work getting your daddies agent to phone a few favours in...

He's the right wing version of Lily Allen.
Dismissing someone's opinion because of the colour of their skin will end racism for sure.

tangerine_sedge

4,699 posts

217 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
A Winner Is You said:
tangerine_sedge said:
doesthiswork said:
Just what we need, an upper-class white man, who has enjoyed every priveledge in life, telling us what racism is and isn't.
Hey! It's tough to be born into an acting dynasty, enjoy the finest education available, receive a plethora of life advantages and still get a career off the ground. It's hard work getting your daddies agent to phone a few favours in...

He's the right wing version of Lily Allen.
Dismissing someone's opinion because of the colour of their skin will end racism for sure.
I think you'll find I didn't reference skin colour...

Anyway, remove the colour of his skin and you still have someone who's received the benefit of privilege all his life pontificating to the massively less privileged.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
Privilege is just a rehashing of original sin.

A Kafka trap, predicated on a pre-judgement based on skin colour or culture.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 28th September 16:16

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
doesthiswork said:
Just what we need, an upper-class white man, who has enjoyed every priveledge in life, telling us what racism is and isn't.
Who is allowed to have a view on what racism is/isn't?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
doesthiswork said:
Just what we need, an upper-class white man, who has enjoyed every priveledge in life, telling us what racism is and isn't.
Who is allowed to have a view on what racism is/isn't?
We're all allowed to have a view on it, clearly. It's just you tend give more weight and credence to some people's opinions on certain subjects than others.


Fox said: "I’ve encountered racism from black people towards me, when I was working in Kenya [as a safari driver] for seven months. It’s the way you’re spoken to — racism can be deferential.”

Poor, poor Laurence, it must have been terrible for him. All those black people being nice and deferential to him. If only they could see beyond the colour of his skin, and treat him as he really deserved to be treated (as a tt, presumably).

Asked by the interviewer what he meant by the idea that “racism can be deferential”, Fox answered: “This is why you don’t get actors involved in chats like this. Because I’m just not smart enough to do it.”

And that's (partly) why I think his views on racism are pretty much worthless.



Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
doesthiswork said:
Murph7355 said:
doesthiswork said:
Just what we need, an upper-class white man, who has enjoyed every priveledge in life, telling us what racism is and isn't.
Who is allowed to have a view on what racism is/isn't?
We're all allowed to have a view on it, clearly. It's just you tend give more weight and credence to some people's opinions on certain subjects than others.


Fox said: "I’ve encountered racism from black people towards me, when I was working in Kenya [as a safari driver] for seven months. It’s the way you’re spoken to — racism can be deferential.”

Poor, poor Laurence, it must have been terrible for him. All those black people being nice and deferential to him. If only they could see beyond the colour of his skin, and treat him as he really deserved to be treated (as a tt, presumably).

Asked by the interviewer what he meant by the idea that “racism can be deferential”, Fox answered: “This is why you don’t get actors involved in chats like this. Because I’m just not smart enough to do it.”

And that's (partly) why I think his views on racism are pretty much worthless.
So, his views on racism are worthless for reasons other than he’s white, a man and from a privileged upbringing.

Got it.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
So, his views on racism are worthless for reasons other than he’s white, a man and from a privileged upbringing.

Got it.
I was originally commenting on this particular upper class, wealthy, privileged white man, but to be honest, most upper class, wealthy, privileged white men are going to be on the back foot if they take it upon themselves to deny racism is a problem when it's somewhat unlikely they will have suffered it themselves.



Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 28th September 22:37

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
doesthiswork said:
Kawasicki said:
So, his views on racism are worthless for reasons other than he’s white, a man and from a privileged upbringing.

Got it.
I was originally commenting on this particular upper class, wealthy, privileged white man, but to be honest, most upper class, wealthy, privileged white men are going to be on the back foot if they take it upon themselves to deny racism is a problem when it's somewhat unlikely they will have suffered it themselves.



Edited by doesthiswork on Monday 28th September 22:37
I think discounting someone’s opinion based even partly on their skin colour is best avoided. It doesn’t sit right with me.

I could be wrong though.

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
This is 2020.

The best way to combat racism - apparently - is to treat people differently on the basis of their race.

No, I don't get it either.

FiF

43,962 posts

250 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Just a thought on this white male privilege schtick.

Just look where White British boys, especially those who get free school meals sit on this chart.


turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
FiF said:
Just a thought on this white male privilege schtick.

Just look where White British boys, especially those who get free school meals sit on this chart.
In keeping with that data and as I know you know, white working class pupils - boys in particular - have been very near the bottom of the educational achievement pile for some time. An appropriate amount of lip service is paid, given that schools and the system as a whole are data rich and it can't possibly be missed, but they're still in the same boat. It's almost as though there's no genuine sense of urgency.

2020
"Education and Attainment of White Working-Class Boys"
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-02-12/d...

2019
"Half of universities have fewer than 5% poor white students"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47227157

2018
"Why are white working class boys underachieving in our schools?"
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/201...

2017
"The under-achievement of white working class boys in England is well documented"
https://www.bera.ac.uk/blog/setting-and-the-academ...

2016
"Schools must focus on struggling white working-class pupils"
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/10/...

2015
"Underachievement by white working class children..."
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/neoliber...

2014
Underachievement in Education by White Working Class Children (pdf)
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cms...

2013
"Working class boys: schools must work with parents to raise their attainment"
https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teache...

That's enough privilege to be going on with before 7am.

FiF

43,962 posts

250 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Oh indeed there's certain stuff that comes out of HESA data that cannot be mentioned, I mean that literally, this cannot be talked about, it doesn't fit the narrative apparently.

Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Johnnytheboy said:
This is 2020.

The best way to combat racism - apparently - is to treat people differently on the basis of their race.

No, I don't get it either.
I'm not sure it's possible to combat racism without acknowledging different races.

Dont Panic

1,389 posts

50 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
Blakewater said:
Whilst we perhaps need to stand up to the virtue signallers of this world,
Like those fekkers who wear poppies in November?
Yeah, I know what you mean, spending some time considering what your grandad died for and showing respect for them....... who needs that kind of virtue signalling?

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
I'm not sure it's possible to combat racism without acknowledging different races.
Race can't even be defined. Prove me wrong biggrin

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Johnnytheboy said:
This is 2020.

The best way to combat racism - apparently - is to treat people differently on the basis of their race.

No, I don't get it either.
I'm not sure it's possible to combat racism without acknowledging different races.
Quite possibly, but then that's not what I said.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Interesting, and in the case of the chart, pretty depressing. Now compare that chart with a chart of average salary by race for the UK.

But... what's any of that got to do with the subject in hand?

- Laurence Fox is allowed to say what he likes, obviously
- Laurence Fox is, by any definition, wealthy, privileged, upper class, white, and male. While he should have paid more attention in his history lessons, I doubt he ever received a free school meal
- On this particular subject (what racism is not) I am much less likely to give weight to the opinion of someone who has clearly never been a victim of racism.

I don't see how there's anything controversial about the above.

chrispmartha

15,360 posts

128 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Dont Panic said:
Escapegoat said:
Blakewater said:
Whilst we perhaps need to stand up to the virtue signallers of this world,
Like those fekkers who wear poppies in November?
Yeah, I know what you mean, spending some time considering what your grandad died for and showing respect for them....... who needs that kind of virtue signalling?
You’re both missing and proving his point there.

You’re happy with ‘virtue signalling’ (horrible phrase) when it’s something you agree with. Theres no need to wear a poppy to do anything you have described

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
doesthiswork said:
Interesting, and in the case of the chart, pretty depressing. Now compare that chart with a chart of average salary by race for the UK.

But... what's any of that got to do with the subject in hand?

- Laurence Fox is allowed to say what he likes, obviously. <snip>
That's what it's got to do with the subject (as discussed in this thread), allegedly Fox is in no position to comment due to white male privilege, which description may or may not be wholly accurate but it rings hollow in the bigger picture.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 29th September 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Johnnytheboy said:
This is 2020.

The best way to combat racism - apparently - is to treat people differently on the basis of their race.

No, I don't get it either.
I'm not sure it's possible to combat racism without acknowledging different races.
Some might say that the comparison which led to this point isn't entirely valid.

Social warriors remembering they liked a Lily Allen tweet about Boris and facebookin' for glory isn't remotely equivalent to remembering the genuine warriors who died in WW1 and WW2.