Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)

Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)

Author
Discussion

Brave Fart

2,345 posts

74 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
<edited for brevity>
My position is that they are not effective enough, especially given the lack of standard around material, how they’re worn etc. to justify being mandated in the settings they have been.
Pretty much my position too. It's not the existence of masks that I object to, or that people like seattaken feel the need to wear them. No, I object to their use in shops and public transport being compulsory.
I simply do not agree that there is enough evidence of the effectiveness of face coverings (note: not medical grade masks in a clinical setting) to merit legislation.
Passing a law requiring Mrs Miggins to drape a bit of cloth over her face so she can visit Sainsbury's is a step too far, in my opinion.

Oh, seattaken, sorry if that opinion makes you feel bullied!

Mahalo

460 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Brave Fart said:
I simply do not agree that there is enough evidence of the effectiveness of face coverings (note: not medical grade masks in a clinical setting) to merit legislation.
Here are 70 scientific research articles providing evidence that face coverings (masks) are effective and help prevent the spread of the respiratory infections.


1/70"Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets," Verma et al., June 30 2020, Phys Fluids: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/5.001601...
2/70"Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US" Lyu et al., June 16 2020, Health Affairs: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff....
3/70"Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks" Leffler et al., June 15 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22...
4/70"Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19" Zhang et al., June 11 2020, PNAS: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857
5/70"A modelling framework to assess the likely effectiveness of facemasks in combination with ‘lock-down’ in managing the COVID-19 pandemic" Stutt et al., June 10 2020, Proc. R. Soc. A.: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsp...
6/70META: "Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis," June 1 2020, Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
7/70"Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest" Greenhalgh, May 26 2020, Journal of Evaluation of Clinical Practice: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
8/70"COVID-19 and the Social Distancing Paradox: dangers and solutions" Marchiori, May 26 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.12446.pdf
9/70"Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach," Clase et al., May 22 2020, An of Int Med.: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2567
10/70"Quantitative Method for Comparative Assessment of Particle Filtration Efficiency of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks for PPE" Mueller et al., May 18 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
11/70"Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in households by face mask use, disinfection and social distancing: a cohort study in Beijing, China" Wang et al., May 11 2020, BMJ Global Health: https://gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/5/e002794.full....
12/70"The flow physics of COVID-19" Mittal et al., May 1 2020, J. Fluid Mech.: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
13/70"Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks" Konda et al., ACS Nano, April 24 2020: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
14/70"Epidemiological characteristics of COVID-19 in medical staff members of neurosurgery departments in Hubei province: A multicentre descriptive study," Wang et al., Apr 24 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.20...
15/70"A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible..." MacIntyre et al., Apr 21 2020, Int J Nursing Studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
16/70"Universal Masking is Urgent in the COVID-19 Pandemic: SEIR and Agent Based Models, Empirical Validation, Policy Recommendations," Kai et al., Apr 21 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
17/70"Assessment of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks in Terms of Particle Filtration Efficiency" Mueller et al., Apr 17 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
18/70"Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering," Anfinrud et al., Apr 15 2020, N Engl J Med: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800
19/70"Transmission of COVID-19 to Health Care Personnel During Exposures to a Hospitalized Patient — Solano County, California, February 2020," Heinzerling et al., Apr 14 2020, CDC MMWR: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e5.ht...
20/70META: "Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review," Howard et al., Apr 12 2020, Preprints: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v...
21/70META: "Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis," Greenhalgh et al., April 9 2020, BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435
22/70"The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption and Policies to Increase Supply of Medical Masks for Health Workers" Abaluck et al., April 6 2020, SSRN: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
23/70META: Facemasks and similar barriers to prevent respiratory illness such as COVID-19: A rapid systematic review," Brainard et al., April 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01...
24/70"Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis," Jefferson et al., Apr 7 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30...
25/70"Widespread use of face masks in public may slow the spread of SARS CoV-2: an ecological study," Kenyon, Apr 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31...
26/70"Could SARS-CoV-2 be transmitted via speech droplets?," Anfinrud et al., Apr 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.02...
27/70"Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks" Leung et al., Nat Med, April 3 2020: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
28/70"Potential Utilities of Mask-Wearing and Instant Hand Hygiene for Fighting SARS-CoV-2" Ma et al., J Med Virol., March 31 2020: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/j...
29/70"Calibrated Intervention and Containment of the COVID-19 Pandemic," Tian et al., Mar 16 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.07353...
30/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 Respirators Versus Surgical Masks Against Influenza: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis," Long et al., Mar 13 2020, J Evid Based Med.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32167245/
31/70"Association between 2019-nCoV transmission and N95 respirator use," Wang et al., Mar 3 2020, J Hosp Infect.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71344...
32/70"Risk of transmission via medical employees and importance of routine infection-prevention policy in a nosocomial outbreak of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)" Ki et al., Oct 30 2019, BMC Pulm Med.: https://bmcpulmmed.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10....
33/70"N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza among Health Care Personnel, A Randomized Clinical Trial," Radonovich et al., Sept 3 2019, JAMA: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/...
34/70"Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak" Yan et al., Sept 19 2018, Risk Analysis: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ri...
35/70"Risk Factors for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Personnel," Alraddadi et al., Nov 2016, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/11/16-0920_ar...
36/70"Surveillance of the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) coronavirus (CoV) infection in healthcare workers after contact with confirmed MERS patients" Kim et al., July 27 2016, Clin Microb Infect.: https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
37/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis" Smith et al. May 17 2016. CMAJ: https://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/188/8/567.full.pd...
38/70"Transmission among Healthcare Worker Contacts With a Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Patient in a Single Korean Centre," Kim et al., Feb 2016, Clin Microbiol Infect.: https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
39/70"Pilot Randomised Controlled Trial to Test Effectiveness of Facemasks in Preventing Influenza-like Illness Transmission among Australian Hajj Pilgrims in 2011," Barasheed et al., 2014, Infect Disord Drug Targets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25336079/
40/70"Protection by Face Masks against Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 Virus on Trans-Pacific Passenger Aircraft, 2009," Zhang et al., Sep 2013, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38109...
41/70"Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?" Davies et al., Aug 2013, Disaster Med Public Health Prep.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71086...
42/70"Effectiveness of surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols" Booth et al., May 2013, Journal of Hosp Inf: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/...
43/70"Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks" Milton et al. Mar 7 2013. PLoS Pathog: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC35913...
44/70"Effectiveness of Selected Surgical Masks in Arresting Vegetative Cells and Endospores When Worn by Simulated Contagious Patients," Green at al., Mar 16 2012, Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22476275/
45/70"The Role of Facemasks and Hand Hygiene in the Prevention of Influenza Transmission in Households: Results From a Cluster Randomised Trial; Berlin, Germany, 2009-2011," Suess et al., Jan 26 2012, BMC Infect Dis.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22280120/
46/70"Facemasks, Hand Hygiene, and Influenza among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Jan 25 2012, PLoS One: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.13...
47/70"Is Abdominal Obesity Associated With the 2009 Influenza A (H1N1) Pandemic in Korean School-Aged Children?" Kim et al., Dec 8 2011, Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
48/70META: "Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses" Jefferson et al., July 6 2011, Cochrane Database Syst Rev.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC69939...
49/70"Impact of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions on URIs and Influenza in Crowded, Urban Households," Larson et al., Mar 2010, Public Health Rep.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC28218...
50/70"Mask Use, Hand Hygiene, and Seasonal Influenza-Like Illness among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Feb 15 2010, J Infect Dis.: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/201/4/491/861...
51/70"Risk factors for SARS infection among hospital healthcare workers in Beijing: a case control study," Tang et al., Oct 7 2009, Trop Med & Int Health: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
52/70"Facemasks and Hand Hygiene to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households: A Cluster Randomized Trial," Cowling et al., 6 Oct 2009, Ann Intern Med.: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/0003-...
53/70"A Quantitative Assessment of the Efficacy of Surgical and N95 Masks to Filter Influenza Virus in Patients With Acute Influenza Infection," Johnson et al., July 15 2009, Clin Infect Dis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
54/70"Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households," MacIntyre et al., Feb 2009, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26626...
55/70"The First Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial of Mask Use in Households to Prevent Respiratory Virus Transmission," MacIntyre et al. Dec 1 2008, Int J Infect Dis.: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)0...
56/70"Risk Factors for SARS Infection Within Hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam," Nishiyama et al., Sep 2008, Jpn J Infect Dis.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18806349/
57/70"Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population," v.d.Sande et al., July 9 2008, PLoS One: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC24407...
58/70"Factors Associated With Nosocomial SARS-CoV Transmission among Healthcare Workers in Hanoi, Vietnam, 2003," Reynolds et al., Aug 2006, BMC Public Health: https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles...
59/70"Investigation of the Influencing Factors on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome among Health Care Workers," Pei et al., June 18 2006, Beijing Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16778970/
60/70"Simple Respiratory Mask," Dato et al., June 2006, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33730...
61/70"Rapid Awareness and Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome in Hanoi French Hospital, Vietnam," Jul 1 2005, Am J Trop Med and Hyg.: http://www.ajtmh.org/content/journals/10.4269/ajtm...
62/70"Asymptomatic SARS Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Workers, Singapore," Wilder-Smith et al., July 2005, Emerg Inf Dis.: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/04-1165_art...
63/70"Factors associated with transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome among health-care workers in Singapore," Teleman et al., Nov 8 2004, Epidemiol Infect.: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
64/70"SARS Transmission, Risk Factors, and Prevention in Hong Kong," Lau et al., Apr 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33230...
65/70"Mild Illness Associated with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection: Lessons from a Prospective Seroepidemiologic Study of Health-Care Workers in a Teaching Hospital in Singapore," Ho et al., Feb 15 2004, J Infect Dis.: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/4/642/839...
66/70"Risk Factors for SARS among Persons without Known Contact with SARS Patients, Beijing, China" Wu et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33229...
67/70"SARS among Critical Care Nurses, Toronto," Loeb et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33228...
68/70"Effectiveness of Personal Protective Measures in Prevention of Nosocomial Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Yin et al., Jan 2004. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing Xue Za Zhi: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15061941/
69/70"Illness in Intensive Care Staff After Brief Exposure to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Scales et al., Oct 2003, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC30330...
70/70"Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)," Seto et al., May 3 2003, Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...




markyb_lcy

8,824 posts

25 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?


smartypants

48,812 posts

132 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Alucidnation said:
I don't think anyone can have an exact percentage, but they must be reasonably effective as all doctors, surgeons etc have been wearing them in a clinical setting for years!
They really haven't.

Muncher

12,020 posts

212 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Mahalo said:
Here are 70 scientific research articles providing evidence that face coverings (masks) are effective and help prevent the spread of the respiratory infections.


1/70"Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets," Verma et al., June 30 2020, Phys Fluids: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/5.001601...
2/70"Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US" Lyu et al., June 16 2020, Health Affairs: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff....
3/70"Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks" Leffler et al., June 15 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22...
4/70"Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19" Zhang et al., June 11 2020, PNAS: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857
5/70"A modelling framework to assess the likely effectiveness of facemasks in combination with ‘lock-down’ in managing the COVID-19 pandemic" Stutt et al., June 10 2020, Proc. R. Soc. A.: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsp...
6/70META: "Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis," June 1 2020, Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
7/70"Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest" Greenhalgh, May 26 2020, Journal of Evaluation of Clinical Practice: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
8/70"COVID-19 and the Social Distancing Paradox: dangers and solutions" Marchiori, May 26 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.12446.pdf
9/70"Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach," Clase et al., May 22 2020, An of Int Med.: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2567
10/70"Quantitative Method for Comparative Assessment of Particle Filtration Efficiency of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks for PPE" Mueller et al., May 18 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
11/70"Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in households by face mask use, disinfection and social distancing: a cohort study in Beijing, China" Wang et al., May 11 2020, BMJ Global Health: https://gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/5/e002794.full....
12/70"The flow physics of COVID-19" Mittal et al., May 1 2020, J. Fluid Mech.: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
13/70"Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks" Konda et al., ACS Nano, April 24 2020: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
14/70"Epidemiological characteristics of COVID-19 in medical staff members of neurosurgery departments in Hubei province: A multicentre descriptive study," Wang et al., Apr 24 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.20...
15/70"A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible..." MacIntyre et al., Apr 21 2020, Int J Nursing Studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
16/70"Universal Masking is Urgent in the COVID-19 Pandemic: SEIR and Agent Based Models, Empirical Validation, Policy Recommendations," Kai et al., Apr 21 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
17/70"Assessment of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks in Terms of Particle Filtration Efficiency" Mueller et al., Apr 17 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
18/70"Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering," Anfinrud et al., Apr 15 2020, N Engl J Med: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800
19/70"Transmission of COVID-19 to Health Care Personnel During Exposures to a Hospitalized Patient — Solano County, California, February 2020," Heinzerling et al., Apr 14 2020, CDC MMWR: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e5.ht...
20/70META: "Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review," Howard et al., Apr 12 2020, Preprints: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v...
21/70META: "Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis," Greenhalgh et al., April 9 2020, BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435
22/70"The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption and Policies to Increase Supply of Medical Masks for Health Workers" Abaluck et al., April 6 2020, SSRN: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
23/70META: Facemasks and similar barriers to prevent respiratory illness such as COVID-19: A rapid systematic review," Brainard et al., April 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01...
24/70"Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis," Jefferson et al., Apr 7 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30...
25/70"Widespread use of face masks in public may slow the spread of SARS CoV-2: an ecological study," Kenyon, Apr 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31...
26/70"Could SARS-CoV-2 be transmitted via speech droplets?," Anfinrud et al., Apr 6 2020, medRxiv: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.02...
27/70"Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks" Leung et al., Nat Med, April 3 2020: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
28/70"Potential Utilities of Mask-Wearing and Instant Hand Hygiene for Fighting SARS-CoV-2" Ma et al., J Med Virol., March 31 2020: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/j...
29/70"Calibrated Intervention and Containment of the COVID-19 Pandemic," Tian et al., Mar 16 2020, arXiv: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.07353...
30/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 Respirators Versus Surgical Masks Against Influenza: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis," Long et al., Mar 13 2020, J Evid Based Med.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32167245/
31/70"Association between 2019-nCoV transmission and N95 respirator use," Wang et al., Mar 3 2020, J Hosp Infect.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71344...
32/70"Risk of transmission via medical employees and importance of routine infection-prevention policy in a nosocomial outbreak of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)" Ki et al., Oct 30 2019, BMC Pulm Med.: https://bmcpulmmed.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10....
33/70"N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza among Health Care Personnel, A Randomized Clinical Trial," Radonovich et al., Sept 3 2019, JAMA: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/...
34/70"Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak" Yan et al., Sept 19 2018, Risk Analysis: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ri...
35/70"Risk Factors for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Personnel," Alraddadi et al., Nov 2016, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/11/16-0920_ar...
36/70"Surveillance of the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) coronavirus (CoV) infection in healthcare workers after contact with confirmed MERS patients" Kim et al., July 27 2016, Clin Microb Infect.: https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
37/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis" Smith et al. May 17 2016. CMAJ: https://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/188/8/567.full.pd...
38/70"Transmission among Healthcare Worker Contacts With a Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Patient in a Single Korean Centre," Kim et al., Feb 2016, Clin Microbiol Infect.: https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
39/70"Pilot Randomised Controlled Trial to Test Effectiveness of Facemasks in Preventing Influenza-like Illness Transmission among Australian Hajj Pilgrims in 2011," Barasheed et al., 2014, Infect Disord Drug Targets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25336079/
40/70"Protection by Face Masks against Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 Virus on Trans-Pacific Passenger Aircraft, 2009," Zhang et al., Sep 2013, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38109...
41/70"Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?" Davies et al., Aug 2013, Disaster Med Public Health Prep.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71086...
42/70"Effectiveness of surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols" Booth et al., May 2013, Journal of Hosp Inf: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/...
43/70"Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks" Milton et al. Mar 7 2013. PLoS Pathog: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC35913...
44/70"Effectiveness of Selected Surgical Masks in Arresting Vegetative Cells and Endospores When Worn by Simulated Contagious Patients," Green at al., Mar 16 2012, Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22476275/
45/70"The Role of Facemasks and Hand Hygiene in the Prevention of Influenza Transmission in Households: Results From a Cluster Randomised Trial; Berlin, Germany, 2009-2011," Suess et al., Jan 26 2012, BMC Infect Dis.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22280120/
46/70"Facemasks, Hand Hygiene, and Influenza among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Jan 25 2012, PLoS One: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.13...
47/70"Is Abdominal Obesity Associated With the 2009 Influenza A (H1N1) Pandemic in Korean School-Aged Children?" Kim et al., Dec 8 2011, Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
48/70META: "Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses" Jefferson et al., July 6 2011, Cochrane Database Syst Rev.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC69939...
49/70"Impact of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions on URIs and Influenza in Crowded, Urban Households," Larson et al., Mar 2010, Public Health Rep.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC28218...
50/70"Mask Use, Hand Hygiene, and Seasonal Influenza-Like Illness among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Feb 15 2010, J Infect Dis.: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/201/4/491/861...
51/70"Risk factors for SARS infection among hospital healthcare workers in Beijing: a case control study," Tang et al., Oct 7 2009, Trop Med & Int Health: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
52/70"Facemasks and Hand Hygiene to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households: A Cluster Randomized Trial," Cowling et al., 6 Oct 2009, Ann Intern Med.: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/0003-...
53/70"A Quantitative Assessment of the Efficacy of Surgical and N95 Masks to Filter Influenza Virus in Patients With Acute Influenza Infection," Johnson et al., July 15 2009, Clin Infect Dis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
54/70"Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households," MacIntyre et al., Feb 2009, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26626...
55/70"The First Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial of Mask Use in Households to Prevent Respiratory Virus Transmission," MacIntyre et al. Dec 1 2008, Int J Infect Dis.: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)0...
56/70"Risk Factors for SARS Infection Within Hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam," Nishiyama et al., Sep 2008, Jpn J Infect Dis.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18806349/
57/70"Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population," v.d.Sande et al., July 9 2008, PLoS One: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC24407...
58/70"Factors Associated With Nosocomial SARS-CoV Transmission among Healthcare Workers in Hanoi, Vietnam, 2003," Reynolds et al., Aug 2006, BMC Public Health: https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles...
59/70"Investigation of the Influencing Factors on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome among Health Care Workers," Pei et al., June 18 2006, Beijing Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16778970/
60/70"Simple Respiratory Mask," Dato et al., June 2006, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33730...
61/70"Rapid Awareness and Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome in Hanoi French Hospital, Vietnam," Jul 1 2005, Am J Trop Med and Hyg.: http://www.ajtmh.org/content/journals/10.4269/ajtm...
62/70"Asymptomatic SARS Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Workers, Singapore," Wilder-Smith et al., July 2005, Emerg Inf Dis.: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/04-1165_art...
63/70"Factors associated with transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome among health-care workers in Singapore," Teleman et al., Nov 8 2004, Epidemiol Infect.: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
64/70"SARS Transmission, Risk Factors, and Prevention in Hong Kong," Lau et al., Apr 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33230...
65/70"Mild Illness Associated with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection: Lessons from a Prospective Seroepidemiologic Study of Health-Care Workers in a Teaching Hospital in Singapore," Ho et al., Feb 15 2004, J Infect Dis.: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/4/642/839...
66/70"Risk Factors for SARS among Persons without Known Contact with SARS Patients, Beijing, China" Wu et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33229...
67/70"SARS among Critical Care Nurses, Toronto," Loeb et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33228...
68/70"Effectiveness of Personal Protective Measures in Prevention of Nosocomial Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Yin et al., Jan 2004. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing Xue Za Zhi: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15061941/
69/70"Illness in Intensive Care Staff After Brief Exposure to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Scales et al., Oct 2003, Emerg Infect Dis.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC30330...
70/70"Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)," Seto et al., May 3 2003, Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
The vast majority of those links do not work. Just like masks.

smartypants

48,812 posts

132 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
No. ROFLCOPTERS have though.


grumbledoak

28,201 posts

196 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Eleven and a half years he's been compiling that list! We should at least read them.

Mahalo

460 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
It does assumes that people wish to be informed and are willing to put in the effort to read the articles - sadly I think with certain posters on here those two hopes are futile. I guess some people just like to be spoon fed by fake news with simple slogans.

Mahalo

460 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Muncher said:
The vast majority of those links do not work. Just like masks.
Thanks for informing me - there does indeed appear to be a problem with some of the links. I can correct if you would like as they should all link to valid research articles.

Mahalo

460 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Links should now work ....
1/70"Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets," Verma et al., June 30 2020, Phys Fluids:   https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/5.001601...
2/70"Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US" Lyu et al., June 16 2020, Health Affairs:   https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff....
3/70"Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks" Leffler et al., June 15 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22...
4/70"Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19" Zhang et al., June 11 2020, PNAS:    https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857
5/70"A modelling framework to assess the likely effectiveness of facemasks in combination with ‘lock-down’ in managing the COVID-19 pandemic" Stutt et al., June 10 2020, Proc. R. Soc. A.:   https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsp...
6/70META: "Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis," June 1 2020, Lancet:   https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
7/70"Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest" Greenhalgh, May 26 2020, Journal of Evaluation of Clinical Practice:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
8/70"COVID-19 and the Social Distancing Paradox: dangers and solutions" Marchiori, May 26 2020, arXiv:    https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.12446.pdf
9/70"Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach," Clase et al., May 22 2020, An of Int Med.:    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2567
10/70"Quantitative Method for Comparative Assessment of Particle Filtration Efficiency of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks for PPE" Mueller et al., May 18 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
11/70"Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in households by face mask use, disinfection and social distancing: a cohort study in Beijing, China" Wang et al., May 11 2020, BMJ Global Health:   https://gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/5/e002794.full....
12/70"The flow physics of COVID-19" Mittal et al., May 1 2020, J. Fluid Mech.:   https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
13/70"Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks" Konda et al., ACS Nano, April 24 2020:   https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
14/70"Epidemiological characteristics of COVID-19 in medical staff members of neurosurgery departments in Hubei province: A multicentre descriptive study," Wang et al., Apr 24 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.20...
15/70"A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible..." MacIntyre et al., Apr 21 2020, Int J Nursing Studies:    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
16/70"Universal Masking is Urgent in the COVID-19 Pandemic: SEIR and Agent Based Models, Empirical Validation, Policy Recommendations," Kai et al., Apr 21 2020, arXiv:    https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
17/70"Assessment of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks in Terms of Particle Filtration Efficiency" Mueller et al., Apr 17 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
18/70"Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering," Anfinrud et al., Apr 15 2020, N Engl J Med:   https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800
19/70"Transmission of COVID-19 to Health Care Personnel During Exposures to a Hospitalized Patient — Solano County, California, February 2020," Heinzerling et al., Apr 14 2020, CDC MMWR:   https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e5.ht...
20/70META: "Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review," Howard et al., Apr 12 2020, Preprints:    https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v...
21/70META: "Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis," Greenhalgh et al., April 9 2020, BMJ:   https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435
22/70"The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption and Policies to Increase Supply of Medical Masks for Health Workers" Abaluck et al., April 6 2020, SSRN:   https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
23/70META: Facemasks and similar barriers to prevent respiratory illness such as COVID-19: A rapid systematic review," Brainard et al., April 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01...
24/70"Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis," Jefferson et al., Apr 7 2020, medRxiv:    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30...
25/70"Widespread use of face masks in public may slow the spread of SARS CoV-2: an ecological study," Kenyon, Apr 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31...
26/70"Could SARS-CoV-2 be transmitted via speech droplets?," Anfinrud et al., Apr 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.02...
27/70"Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks" Leung et al., Nat Med, April 3 2020:    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
28/70"Potential Utilities of Mask-Wearing and Instant Hand Hygiene for Fighting SARS-CoV-2" Ma et al., J Med Virol., March 31 2020:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/j...
29/70"Calibrated Intervention and Containment of the COVID-19 Pandemic," Tian et al., Mar 16 2020, arXiv:   https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.07353...
30/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 Respirators Versus Surgical Masks Against Influenza: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis," Long et al., Mar 13 2020, J Evid Based Med.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32167245/
31/70"Association between 2019-nCoV transmission and N95 respirator use," Wang et al., Mar 3 2020, J Hosp Infect.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71344...
32/70"Risk of transmission via medical employees and importance of routine infection-prevention policy in a nosocomial outbreak of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)" Ki et al., Oct 30 2019, BMC Pulm Med.:   https://bmcpulmmed.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10....
33/70"N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza among Health Care Personnel, A Randomized Clinical Trial," Radonovich et al., Sept 3 2019, JAMA:   https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/...
34/70"Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak" Yan et al., Sept 19 2018, Risk Analysis:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ri...
35/70"Risk Factors for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Personnel," Alraddadi et al., Nov 2016, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/11/16-0920_ar...
36/70"Surveillance of the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) coronavirus (CoV) infection in healthcare workers after contact with confirmed MERS patients" Kim et al., July 27 2016, Clin Microb Infect.:   https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
37/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis" Smith et al. May 17 2016. CMAJ:    https://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/188/8/567.full.pd...
38/70"Transmission among Healthcare Worker Contacts With a Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Patient in a Single Korean Centre," Kim et al., Feb 2016, Clin Microbiol Infect.:   https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
39/70"Pilot Randomised Controlled Trial to Test Effectiveness of Facemasks in Preventing Influenza-like Illness Transmission among Australian Hajj Pilgrims in 2011," Barasheed et al., 2014, Infect Disord Drug Targets:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25336079/
40/70"Protection by Face Masks against Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 Virus on Trans-Pacific Passenger Aircraft, 2009," Zhang et al., Sep 2013, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38109...
41/70"Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?" Davies et al., Aug 2013, Disaster Med Public Health Prep.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71086...
42/70"Effectiveness of surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols" Booth et al., May 2013, Journal of Hosp Inf:   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/...
43/70"Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks" Milton et al. Mar 7 2013. PLoS Pathog:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC35913...
44/70"Effectiveness of Selected Surgical Masks in Arresting Vegetative Cells and Endospores When Worn by Simulated Contagious Patients," Green at al., Mar 16 2012, Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22476275/
45/70"The Role of Facemasks and Hand Hygiene in the Prevention of Influenza Transmission in Households: Results From a Cluster Randomised Trial; Berlin, Germany, 2009-2011," Suess et al., Jan 26 2012, BMC Infect Dis.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22280120/
46/70"Facemasks, Hand Hygiene, and Influenza among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Jan 25 2012, PLoS One:    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.13...
47/70"Is Abdominal Obesity Associated With the 2009 Influenza A (H1N1) Pandemic in Korean School-Aged Children?" Kim et al., Dec 8 2011, Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
48/70META: "Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses" Jefferson et al., July 6 2011, Cochrane Database Syst Rev.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC69939...
49/70"Impact of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions on URIs and Influenza in Crowded, Urban Households," Larson et al., Mar 2010, Public Health Rep.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC28218...
50/70"Mask Use, Hand Hygiene, and Seasonal Influenza-Like Illness among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Feb 15 2010, J Infect Dis.:   https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/201/4/491/861...
51/70"Risk factors for SARS infection among hospital healthcare workers in Beijing: a case control study," Tang et al., Oct 7 2009, Trop Med & Int Health:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
52/70"Facemasks and Hand Hygiene to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households: A Cluster Randomized Trial," Cowling et al., 6 Oct 2009, Ann Intern Med.:   https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/0003-...
53/70"A Quantitative Assessment of the Efficacy of Surgical and N95 Masks to Filter Influenza Virus in Patients With Acute Influenza Infection," Johnson et al., July 15 2009, Clin Infect Dis:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
54/70"Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households," MacIntyre et al., Feb 2009, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26626...
55/70"The First Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial of Mask Use in Households to Prevent Respiratory Virus Transmission," MacIntyre et al. Dec 1 2008, Int J Infect Dis.:   https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)0...
56/70"Risk Factors for SARS Infection Within Hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam," Nishiyama et al., Sep 2008, Jpn J Infect Dis.:    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18806349/
57/70"Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population," v.d.Sande et al., July 9 2008, PLoS One:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC24407...
58/70"Factors Associated With Nosocomial SARS-CoV Transmission among Healthcare Workers in Hanoi, Vietnam, 2003," Reynolds et al., Aug 2006, BMC Public Health:  https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles...
59/70"Investigation of the Influencing Factors on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome among Health Care Workers," Pei et al., June 18 2006, Beijing Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16778970/
60/70"Simple Respiratory Mask," Dato et al., June 2006, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33730...
61/70"Rapid Awareness and Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome in Hanoi French Hospital, Vietnam," Jul 1 2005, Am J Trop Med and Hyg.:   http://www.ajtmh.org/content/journals/10.4269/ajtm...
62/70"Asymptomatic SARS Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Workers, Singapore," Wilder-Smith et al., July 2005, Emerg Inf Dis.:   https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/04-1165_art...
63/70"Factors associated with transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome among health-care workers in Singapore," Teleman et al., Nov 8 2004, Epidemiol Infect.:   https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
64/70"SARS Transmission, Risk Factors, and Prevention in Hong Kong," Lau et al., Apr 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.:    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33230...
65/70"Mild Illness Associated with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection: Lessons from a Prospective Seroepidemiologic Study of Health-Care Workers in a Teaching Hospital in Singapore," Ho et al., Feb 15 2004, J Infect Dis.:   https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/4/642/839...
66/70"Risk Factors for SARS among Persons without Known Contact with SARS Patients, Beijing, China" Wu et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33229...
67/70"SARS among Critical Care Nurses, Toronto," Loeb et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33228...
68/70"Effectiveness of Personal Protective Measures in Prevention of Nosocomial Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Yin et al., Jan 2004. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing Xue Za Zhi:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15061941/
69/70"Illness in Intensive Care Staff After Brief Exposure to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Scales et al., Oct 2003, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC30330...
70/70"Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)," Seto et al., May 3 2003, Lancet:   https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...

markyb_lcy

8,824 posts

25 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Mahalo said:
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
It does assumes that people wish to be informed and are willing to put in the effort to read the articles - sadly I think with certain posters on here those two hopes are futile. I guess some people just like to be spoon fed by fake news with simple slogans.
Well I can tell you for a fact that I don’t have the will or inclination to read 70 of these such papers. Have you read them all yourself cover to cover, or did you think a volume of links would win an argument?

If you could pick 3 of them (assuming you’ve read them all) then I would appreciate that and I would be far more inclined to read and comment on them.

MOTORVATOR

5,036 posts

210 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Half a dozen posts demanding evidence and then when an effort is made to do so berate the individual for doing it.

Why would you do that? scratchchin

markyb_lcy

8,824 posts

25 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Half a dozen posts demanding evidence and then when an effort is made to do so berate the individual for doing it.

Why would you do that? scratchchin
See my more recent post for a more fleshed out reasoning than my admittedly knee-jerk reaction.

isaldiri

11,077 posts

131 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Seattaken said:
isaldiri said:
What so now hospital staff don't wash their hands and that's why outbreaks are happening in hospitals...?

You claimed masks work. If they do places where outbreaks are happening most regularly are also oddly the places with the highest levels of mask usage.
Great logic, its up there with; lots of people die in hospitals after having a heart attack so don't go to hospital when you have a heart attack.
Hardly. In your example, that would be if it was being shown going to the hospital meant my likelihood of a heart attack was higher while there then yep i most certainly would be a bit more wary about going.

The point which you are refusing to address is that for all your so called mask effectiveness people are still catching covid in hospitals in pretty large numbers. The risk factor of the setting is by far more important than any small reduction that may or may not happen wearing some lousy face covering.

smartypants

48,812 posts

132 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Mahalo said:
Links should now work ....
1/70"Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets," Verma et al., June 30 2020, Phys Fluids:   https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/5.001601...
2/70"Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US" Lyu et al., June 16 2020, Health Affairs:   https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff....
3/70"Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks" Leffler et al., June 15 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22...
4/70"Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19" Zhang et al., June 11 2020, PNAS:    https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857
5/70"A modelling framework to assess the likely effectiveness of facemasks in combination with ‘lock-down’ in managing the COVID-19 pandemic" Stutt et al., June 10 2020, Proc. R. Soc. A.:   https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsp...
6/70META: "Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis," June 1 2020, Lancet:   https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
7/70"Face coverings for the public: Laying straw men to rest" Greenhalgh, May 26 2020, Journal of Evaluation of Clinical Practice:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
8/70"COVID-19 and the Social Distancing Paradox: dangers and solutions" Marchiori, May 26 2020, arXiv:    https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.12446.pdf
9/70"Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach," Clase et al., May 22 2020, An of Int Med.:    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2567
10/70"Quantitative Method for Comparative Assessment of Particle Filtration Efficiency of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks for PPE" Mueller et al., May 18 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
11/70"Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in households by face mask use, disinfection and social distancing: a cohort study in Beijing, China" Wang et al., May 11 2020, BMJ Global Health:   https://gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/5/e002794.full....
12/70"The flow physics of COVID-19" Mittal et al., May 1 2020, J. Fluid Mech.:   https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
13/70"Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks" Konda et al., ACS Nano, April 24 2020:   https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
14/70"Epidemiological characteristics of COVID-19 in medical staff members of neurosurgery departments in Hubei province: A multicentre descriptive study," Wang et al., Apr 24 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.20...
15/70"A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible..." MacIntyre et al., Apr 21 2020, Int J Nursing Studies:    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
16/70"Universal Masking is Urgent in the COVID-19 Pandemic: SEIR and Agent Based Models, Empirical Validation, Policy Recommendations," Kai et al., Apr 21 2020, arXiv:    https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
17/70"Assessment of Fabric Masks as Alternatives to Standard Surgical Masks in Terms of Particle Filtration Efficiency" Mueller et al., Apr 17 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17...
18/70"Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering," Anfinrud et al., Apr 15 2020, N Engl J Med:   https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800
19/70"Transmission of COVID-19 to Health Care Personnel During Exposures to a Hospitalized Patient — Solano County, California, February 2020," Heinzerling et al., Apr 14 2020, CDC MMWR:   https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e5.ht...
20/70META: "Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review," Howard et al., Apr 12 2020, Preprints:    https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v...
21/70META: "Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis," Greenhalgh et al., April 9 2020, BMJ:   https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435
22/70"The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption and Policies to Increase Supply of Medical Masks for Health Workers" Abaluck et al., April 6 2020, SSRN:   https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i...
23/70META: Facemasks and similar barriers to prevent respiratory illness such as COVID-19: A rapid systematic review," Brainard et al., April 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01...
24/70"Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis," Jefferson et al., Apr 7 2020, medRxiv:    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30...
25/70"Widespread use of face masks in public may slow the spread of SARS CoV-2: an ecological study," Kenyon, Apr 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31...
26/70"Could SARS-CoV-2 be transmitted via speech droplets?," Anfinrud et al., Apr 6 2020, medRxiv:   https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.02...
27/70"Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks" Leung et al., Nat Med, April 3 2020:    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
28/70"Potential Utilities of Mask-Wearing and Instant Hand Hygiene for Fighting SARS-CoV-2" Ma et al., J Med Virol., March 31 2020:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/j...
29/70"Calibrated Intervention and Containment of the COVID-19 Pandemic," Tian et al., Mar 16 2020, arXiv:   https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2003/2003.07353...
30/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 Respirators Versus Surgical Masks Against Influenza: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis," Long et al., Mar 13 2020, J Evid Based Med.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32167245/
31/70"Association between 2019-nCoV transmission and N95 respirator use," Wang et al., Mar 3 2020, J Hosp Infect.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71344...
32/70"Risk of transmission via medical employees and importance of routine infection-prevention policy in a nosocomial outbreak of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)" Ki et al., Oct 30 2019, BMC Pulm Med.:   https://bmcpulmmed.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10....
33/70"N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza among Health Care Personnel, A Randomized Clinical Trial," Radonovich et al., Sept 3 2019, JAMA:   https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/...
34/70"Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak" Yan et al., Sept 19 2018, Risk Analysis:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ri...
35/70"Risk Factors for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Personnel," Alraddadi et al., Nov 2016, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/11/16-0920_ar...
36/70"Surveillance of the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) coronavirus (CoV) infection in healthcare workers after contact with confirmed MERS patients" Kim et al., July 27 2016, Clin Microb Infect.:   https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
37/70META: "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis" Smith et al. May 17 2016. CMAJ:    https://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/188/8/567.full.pd...
38/70"Transmission among Healthcare Worker Contacts With a Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Patient in a Single Korean Centre," Kim et al., Feb 2016, Clin Microbiol Infect.:   https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/a...
39/70"Pilot Randomised Controlled Trial to Test Effectiveness of Facemasks in Preventing Influenza-like Illness Transmission among Australian Hajj Pilgrims in 2011," Barasheed et al., 2014, Infect Disord Drug Targets:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25336079/
40/70"Protection by Face Masks against Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 Virus on Trans-Pacific Passenger Aircraft, 2009," Zhang et al., Sep 2013, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38109...
41/70"Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?" Davies et al., Aug 2013, Disaster Med Public Health Prep.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC71086...
42/70"Effectiveness of surgical masks against influenza bioaerosols" Booth et al., May 2013, Journal of Hosp Inf:   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/...
43/70"Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks" Milton et al. Mar 7 2013. PLoS Pathog:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC35913...
44/70"Effectiveness of Selected Surgical Masks in Arresting Vegetative Cells and Endospores When Worn by Simulated Contagious Patients," Green at al., Mar 16 2012, Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22476275/
45/70"The Role of Facemasks and Hand Hygiene in the Prevention of Influenza Transmission in Households: Results From a Cluster Randomised Trial; Berlin, Germany, 2009-2011," Suess et al., Jan 26 2012, BMC Infect Dis.:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22280120/
46/70"Facemasks, Hand Hygiene, and Influenza among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Jan 25 2012, PLoS One:    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.13...
47/70"Is Abdominal Obesity Associated With the 2009 Influenza A (H1N1) Pandemic in Korean School-Aged Children?" Kim et al., Dec 8 2011, Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
48/70META: "Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses" Jefferson et al., July 6 2011, Cochrane Database Syst Rev.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC69939...
49/70"Impact of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions on URIs and Influenza in Crowded, Urban Households," Larson et al., Mar 2010, Public Health Rep.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC28218...
50/70"Mask Use, Hand Hygiene, and Seasonal Influenza-Like Illness among Young Adults: A Randomized Intervention Trial," Aiello et al., Feb 15 2010, J Infect Dis.:   https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/201/4/491/861...
51/70"Risk factors for SARS infection among hospital healthcare workers in Beijing: a case control study," Tang et al., Oct 7 2009, Trop Med & Int Health:   https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j...
52/70"Facemasks and Hand Hygiene to Prevent Influenza Transmission in Households: A Cluster Randomized Trial," Cowling et al., 6 Oct 2009, Ann Intern Med.:   https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/0003-...
53/70"A Quantitative Assessment of the Efficacy of Surgical and N95 Masks to Filter Influenza Virus in Patients With Acute Influenza Infection," Johnson et al., July 15 2009, Clin Infect Dis:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
54/70"Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households," MacIntyre et al., Feb 2009, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26626...
55/70"The First Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial of Mask Use in Households to Prevent Respiratory Virus Transmission," MacIntyre et al. Dec 1 2008, Int J Infect Dis.:   https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)0...
56/70"Risk Factors for SARS Infection Within Hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam," Nishiyama et al., Sep 2008, Jpn J Infect Dis.:    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18806349/
57/70"Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population," v.d.Sande et al., July 9 2008, PLoS One:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC24407...
58/70"Factors Associated With Nosocomial SARS-CoV Transmission among Healthcare Workers in Hanoi, Vietnam, 2003," Reynolds et al., Aug 2006, BMC Public Health:  https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles...
59/70"Investigation of the Influencing Factors on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome among Health Care Workers," Pei et al., June 18 2006, Beijing Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban:   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16778970/
60/70"Simple Respiratory Mask," Dato et al., June 2006, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33730...
61/70"Rapid Awareness and Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome in Hanoi French Hospital, Vietnam," Jul 1 2005, Am J Trop Med and Hyg.:   http://www.ajtmh.org/content/journals/10.4269/ajtm...
62/70"Asymptomatic SARS Coronavirus Infection among Healthcare Workers, Singapore," Wilder-Smith et al., July 2005, Emerg Inf Dis.:   https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/04-1165_art...
63/70"Factors associated with transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome among health-care workers in Singapore," Teleman et al., Nov 8 2004, Epidemiol Infect.:   https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambri...
64/70"SARS Transmission, Risk Factors, and Prevention in Hong Kong," Lau et al., Apr 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.:    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33230...
65/70"Mild Illness Associated with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection: Lessons from a Prospective Seroepidemiologic Study of Health-Care Workers in a Teaching Hospital in Singapore," Ho et al., Feb 15 2004, J Infect Dis.:   https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/4/642/839...
66/70"Risk Factors for SARS among Persons without Known Contact with SARS Patients, Beijing, China" Wu et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33229...
67/70"SARS among Critical Care Nurses, Toronto," Loeb et al., Feb 2004, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33228...
68/70"Effectiveness of Personal Protective Measures in Prevention of Nosocomial Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Yin et al., Jan 2004. Zhonghua Liu Xing Bing Xue Za Zhi:  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15061941/
69/70"Illness in Intensive Care Staff After Brief Exposure to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome," Scales et al., Oct 2003, Emerg Infect Dis.:   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC30330...
70/70"Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)," Seto et al., May 3 2003, Lancet:   https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
I've just read a few of those.

I wouldn't be using the ones I've read at random as your evidence if I were you. "Inconclusive" would be the buzz word to describe them.

Interesting to read though to be fair. Amazing there has been a need for so many studies, you'd have thought one would have been enough if results were so spectacularly in their favour? wink



MOTORVATOR

5,036 posts

210 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Half a dozen posts demanding evidence and then when an effort is made to do so berate the individual for doing it.

Why would you do that? scratchchin
See my more recent post for a more fleshed out reasoning than my admittedly knee-jerk reaction.
Nope still don't get it.

You do realise that every one of the interventions are incremental in their nature. Nobody has ever claimed wearing a mask is the whole solution.

If it is deemed customers wearing a mask allows a shop to operate rather being closed all well and good in my book. If you find that far too much of an effort just don't go to those shops. Same outcome for you?

markyb_lcy

8,824 posts

25 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Half a dozen posts demanding evidence and then when an effort is made to do so berate the individual for doing it.

Why would you do that? scratchchin
See my more recent post for a more fleshed out reasoning than my admittedly knee-jerk reaction.
Nope still don't get it.

You do realise that every one of the interventions are incremental in their nature. Nobody has ever claimed wearing a mask is the whole solution.

If it is deemed customers wearing a mask allows a shop to operate rather being closed all well and good in my book. If you find that far too much of an effort just don't go to those shops. Same outcome for you?
Yes, I accepted and paid tribute to that in an earlier post you didn’t read smile

The only thing that deems a shop able to operate because people wear masks is the mandating of masks by govt. nothing else.

We were in shops throughout the whole first wave and much of the start of summer without masks and they appeared to operate just fine to me.

I’ve been visiting (only) essential shops and far less frequently than usual. I have not been wearing a mask and have only been challenged once. In my area, mask wearing vs non-mask wearing is about 50:50. We have low levels of infections scratchchin

MOTORVATOR

5,036 posts

210 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
Did a wall of text ever win an argument?
Half a dozen posts demanding evidence and then when an effort is made to do so berate the individual for doing it.

Why would you do that? scratchchin
See my more recent post for a more fleshed out reasoning than my admittedly knee-jerk reaction.
Nope still don't get it.

You do realise that every one of the interventions are incremental in their nature. Nobody has ever claimed wearing a mask is the whole solution.

If it is deemed customers wearing a mask allows a shop to operate rather being closed all well and good in my book. If you find that far too much of an effort just don't go to those shops. Same outcome for you?
Yes, I accepted and paid tribute to that in an earlier post you didn’t read smile

The only thing that deems a shop able to operate because people wear masks is the mandating of masks by govt. nothing else.

We were in shops throughout the whole first wave and much of the start of summer without masks and they appeared to operate just fine to me.

I’ve been visiting (only) essential shops and far less frequently than usual. I have not been wearing a mask and have only been challenged once. In my area, mask wearing vs non-mask wearing is about 50:50. We have low levels of infections scratchchin
I still don't get it.

I come from an era where we introduced the wearing of hard hats on construction sites. All the same arguments given about it not needed for me blah blah blah.

Nowadays you turn up on a site and refuse to wear one you don't enter simple. You don't have long drawn out conversations about the efficacy and lack of risk as there's precisely nothing to going to fall out of the sky and hit me that I can see etc. It's mandatory end of story.

If it were me to be honest I wouldn't be allowing you in my shop any more than I would be allowing you on my construction site.

Mahalo

460 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Well I can tell you for a fact that I don’t have the will or inclination to read 70 of these such papers. Have you read them all yourself cover to cover, or did you think a volume of links would win an argument?

If you could pick 3 of them (assuming you’ve read them all) then I would appreciate that and I would be far more inclined to read and comment on them.
I have speed read all of them - most of them seem to have a short abstract at the front which tells you the key points.
I did extract the abstract from a number just now but lost the post.
Articles I randomly chose were 1,10,20,30,40 and 50.

Please note that masks will not provide a 100% protection and need to be combined with other risk reduction techniques such as hand washing, good ventilation, minmising exposure time etc but the science indicates that face masks do help lower the spread of respiratory viruses.


markyb_lcy

8,824 posts

25 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2020
quotequote all
Mahalo said:
markyb_lcy said:
Well I can tell you for a fact that I don’t have the will or inclination to read 70 of these such papers. Have you read them all yourself cover to cover, or did you think a volume of links would win an argument?

If you could pick 3 of them (assuming you’ve read them all) then I would appreciate that and I would be far more inclined to read and comment on them.
I have speed read all of them - most of them seem to have a short abstract at the front which tells you the key points.
I did extract the abstract from a number just now but lost the post.
Articles I randomly chose were 1,10,20,30,40 and 50.

Please note that masks will not provide a 100% protection and need to be combined with other risk reduction techniques such as hand washing, good ventilation, minmising exposure time etc but the science indicates that face masks do help lower the spread of respiratory viruses.
Thanks, I will pencil in some time to look over the ones you’ve identified.

Perhaps shouldn’t need saying, but I’ve never at any point suggested masks need to be 100% effective nor that they are 0% effective. My opinion is that they do have some effect (mostly regarding outward transmission rather than inward) but that the level to which they do help is disproportionate to the burden on civil liberties of mandating them in the settings they have been with the standard-levels that they have been. This, of course, is a matter of personal opinion; other people have different thresholds. One person I spoke to, when I put it to them, said they would agree with 65m brits being mandated to wear masks in shops of it could be proved it would save a single life.