How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)
Discussion
Mortarboard said:
From my viewpoint, it looks like the UK wants/wanted a pretty comprehensive FTA.
That's something the EU hasn't done before, and for all sorts of reasons would reserve for EU members. In other words, the "middle ground" between limited FTA and full membership (or close to it, ala norway) isn't something the EU has any interest in.
M.
Then your viewpoint is completely wrong... That's something the EU hasn't done before, and for all sorts of reasons would reserve for EU members. In other words, the "middle ground" between limited FTA and full membership (or close to it, ala norway) isn't something the EU has any interest in.
M.
There are pretty comprehensive FTAs signed by the EU. CETA and Singapore spring to mind.
The UK isn't looking for "more comprehensive" than those.
Mortarboard said:
From my viewpoint, it looks like the UK wants/wanted a pretty comprehensive FTA.
That's something the EU hasn't done before, and for all sorts of reasons would reserve for EU members. In other words, the "middle ground" between limited FTA and full membership (or close to it, ala norway) isn't something the EU has any interest in.
M.
Then why did we ask for a Canada style FTA (and why did they once offer it)?That's something the EU hasn't done before, and for all sorts of reasons would reserve for EU members. In other words, the "middle ground" between limited FTA and full membership (or close to it, ala norway) isn't something the EU has any interest in.
M.
andymadmak said:
Not this guff again! How many times??????
Roughly every 4th page in 15 Volumes so far (rough calcs that's 1875 times since 2016 and volume 1Not that I've been counting
For the first 6 volumes it was every 2nd page but then slasher/Gloria or whatever she/he was called left
Mrr T said:
jsf said:
Mrr T said:
As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.
How has the UK breached the WA?Sway said:
Any details on the "audit requirements proposed" by the UK, or how they differ from typical CE certification?
You stated very clearly that we were asking for more than a typical FTA, hence we should be willing to give more than other countries with FTAs. Except now you can't point to any actual examples of this - other than to now state that it's unambitious to not ask for more!
Perhaps, the reason we're not asking for more, is because we don't want to offer more... That's not unambitious, it's pragmatic.
The public pitch may have been that the UK wanted a Canada style deal but they were asking for more than that (sensibly in my view).You stated very clearly that we were asking for more than a typical FTA, hence we should be willing to give more than other countries with FTAs. Except now you can't point to any actual examples of this - other than to now state that it's unambitious to not ask for more!
Perhaps, the reason we're not asking for more, is because we don't want to offer more... That's not unambitious, it's pragmatic.
Quoting Barnier from June (I know that'll instantly get knocked by some) an ask that didn't have precedents in other deals was ...
Barnier said:
To have its customs rules and procedures recognised as equivalent, while refusing to commit to the necessary compliance checks and monitoring, or alignment to EU rules where necessary.
... and is the item I was thinking of in my earlier comment. The same speech cites other examples. Obviously pitched from the EU perspective but they were until quite recently line items the UK was seeking. I accept they've pretty much all been rowed back on.I don't disagree that the EU have rolled back by taking the actual Canada FTA off the table when they once said it was there.
As far as I'm aware the current position is that the UK still want a zero tariff arrangement that's better than Canada's and the EU are saying they'll consent to that if the afore mentioned areas of dispute around LPF etc are agreed too.
Sway said:
Then your viewpoint is completely wrong...
There are pretty comprehensive FTAs signed by the EU. CETA and Singapore spring to mind.
The UK isn't looking for "more comprehensive" than those.
CETA isn't fully free of tariffs or quotas. Border checks not removed.There are pretty comprehensive FTAs signed by the EU. CETA and Singapore spring to mind.
The UK isn't looking for "more comprehensive" than those.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45633592#:~:text...
M xxx
(seeing as Borghetto prefers that!)
Robertj21a said:
Helicopter123 said:
Whispers coming out of Ireland suggest that the UK is caving in to get a deal.
Given what twaddle you usually spout I'm guessing you've made this up, to suit your agenda.
Can we get a deal .. yes, it’s doable but it will be difficult
Translated by Budgie into ..
The U.K. has caved
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It wouldn't be a 'political win', it is merely delivering what was promised.
On the tin foil hattery, you're more than likely right. However, I tend to look at what people do as opposed to what they say (especially so with politicians of every persuasion). I could be wrong, I hope so, but I have a nagging feeling Boris has been aiming for no deal all along. If that were the case, you'd have to look for a motive. It certainly wouldn't be to benefit the country, or his own or his own party's political prospects. It is fairly incompatible with all of them. Particularly when you have the pandemic costs to deal with. Look for who might have levers on Boris and, as always, follow the money.
I think you're missing a vital piece of the puzzle here. If the only deal the EU are capable of putting on the table is "Colony of the EU", then literally the only possible option for the UK is to hold our noses and go for no deal. It doesn't need "motive" other than just not wanting to get shafted.On the tin foil hattery, you're more than likely right. However, I tend to look at what people do as opposed to what they say (especially so with politicians of every persuasion). I could be wrong, I hope so, but I have a nagging feeling Boris has been aiming for no deal all along. If that were the case, you'd have to look for a motive. It certainly wouldn't be to benefit the country, or his own or his own party's political prospects. It is fairly incompatible with all of them. Particularly when you have the pandemic costs to deal with. Look for who might have levers on Boris and, as always, follow the money.
This is the key problem with Brexit - that having said we'd leave, we really have no option but to leave. This seems to be something a lot of the Remain side find really hard to accept/understand. There's a point at which accepting any compromise in order to stay as close as possible to the EU is seriously worse than being fully in or out.
Of course, the Russians and all the rest want any option that causes disruption, but that doesn't mean we're choosing disruption because of the Russians. We simply have a difficult choice to make where there is no "make it easy and painless" option.
Has this letter from David Frost to the EU been posted?
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
PRTVR said:
Has this letter from David Frost to the EU been posted?
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
Excellent letter, very clear.https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
But Budgie says we are caving ..... who to believe? .
jsf said:
Mrr T said:
jsf said:
Mrr T said:
As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.
How has the UK breached the WA?PRTVR said:
Has this letter from David Frost to the EU been posted?
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
I think it was a while ago.https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_may_beautiful_david...
So much common sense.
It's quite clearly all lies/photoshopped as the UK has never been clear on what it wants.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff