How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)

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FiF

43,962 posts

250 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
catweasle said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
catweasle said:
We don't exclude them..........we just sell them a permit.
How much income would that generate?
What's that got to do with the price of fish? Simply means we decide who does / does not fish in our Sovereign territorial waters, when, what and how much they catch.......simples really.
We're already seeing how the French will behave. Surrounded a couple of Brixham boats with 20 or so of theirs, threw oil and frying pans (WTF?) at the Brixham boys then fired flares to try and set things on fire.

Rolling reminder, French are our natural enemy.

Waiting for an Arkell vs Pressdram moment from Bozzer. Maybe the only thing that will bring various folks to their senses now, diplomacy sure ain't working. Didn't want to end up here, but we are where we are, for better or worse. Certainly there's a few posters on here deserving of a simple **** Off.

slow_poke

1,855 posts

233 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
There isn't any slack. This thinking is where people are going wrong.

If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.

The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.

We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
There is slack if nobody is willing to buy the permits.
They'll be bought, if there's money to be made.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
There isn't any slack. This thinking is where people are going wrong.

If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.

The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.

We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
There is slack if nobody is willing to buy the permits.
They'll be bought, if there's money to be made.
Exactamente..suivre l'argent.


Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 15th October 11:26

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
They'll be bought, if there's money to be made.
Excellent.

I wonder what else we can sell.

scratchchin

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
They'll be bought, if there's money to be made.
And if they're not it matters not one jot to us. There may be demand for fish in France, but that doesn't mean there's 'slack' that we need to fulfill. There's a whole world out there for the French to explore.

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
And if they're not it matters not one jot to us. There may be demand for fish in France, but that doesn't mean there's 'slack' that we need to fulfill. There's a whole world out there for the French to explore.
If it doesn't matter why champion it and fail to achieve a FTA because of it?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
FIshing rights is just a totem. It isn't big enough of its own right to prevent us reaching a free trade agreement. It would be like Mbappe saying he would only sign for Man Utd if they gave him a specific space in the staff car park, otherwise no deal.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
FIshing rights is just a totem. It isn't big enough of its own right to prevent us reaching a free trade agreement. It would be like Mbappe saying he would only sign for Man Utd if they gave him a specific space in the staff car park, otherwise no deal.
Best email Macron then.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
catweasle said:
Best email Macron then.
I'll CC Boris and tell them both to stop being a pair of silly s and just get on with doing a deal.

There's obviously a fairly chunky principle stopping a deal from being done, and it's not because France is afraid of running out of haddock.

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
And if they're not it matters not one jot to us. There may be demand for fish in France, but that doesn't mean there's 'slack' that we need to fulfill. There's a whole world out there for the French to explore.
If it doesn't matter why champion it and fail to achieve a FTA because of it?
As usual, you're failing to understand the points being made, either out of gross stupidity or through deliberate trolling. That is a completely different question to the one at hand.

We're talking about the a no-deal scenario where the french lose access to our waters, no one has postulated anything about a wider preference for a deal or not.

You argued, to paraphrase, that "OMG the French need fish, and we can't get them for them." The French might care about that, but why would we?

Perhaps Macron has a plan to get them elsewhere, who knows? Who cares?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
catweasle said:
Best email Macron then.
I'll CC Boris and tell them both to stop being a pair of silly s and just get on with doing a deal.

There's obviously a fairly chunky principle stopping a deal from being done, and it's not because France is afraid of running out of haddock.
I'm sure there will be a workaround whatever happens........not even sure some french fishing vessels aren't already registered in the UK or using "flags of convenience"..... not sure who it was but I seem to remember someone saying "take back control" quite a lot.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
catweasle said:
Best email Macron then.
I'll CC Boris and tell them both to stop being a pair of silly s and just get on with doing a deal.

There's obviously a fairly chunky principle stopping a deal from being done, and it's not because France is afraid of running out of haddock.
Those making the demands about fishing access are on the other side of the Channel.
You really need to ask them why they are so keen, or maybe ask yourself why you think they're so keen if you think it's a non-issue.

Or do you expect Boris to accept their demands? Is that what you think should happen?


Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
catweasle said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Do we have a UK fleet that can take up the slack once we exclude French fishermen?
We don't exclude them..........we just sell them a permit.
There isn't any slack. This thinking is where people are going wrong.

If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.

The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.

We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
There's already structures for this.

Essentially, foreign owned vessels can obtain domestic quota if they can show sufficient economic linkage to the domestic industry.

Typically this involves domestic port of registration, domestic port being used for landing, etc.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
crankedup said:
No, but we could offer to buy up those redundant French boats, business opportunity beckons smile
Good idea.

We can retrain all the redundant hospitality workers as fishermen too.

biggrin
Or we could put to work all of those illegal immigrants, after all they do have seafaring experience smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Do you believe the predominant reason we are not able to secure an all encompassing free trade agreement with the entire EU is disagreement over France's access to UK fishing waters?

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To be a pedant - it isn't access that's the issue.

It's how quotas are determined...

The EU is desperate to retain the archaic approach that fundamentally boils down to "if I was able to land it last year, I'll be able to land it this year". That's the basis behind the CFP to prevent a st ton of arguing every year.

Instead, we want to move to the same approach the very best fisheries across the world have moved to for shared stocks (fish that move across borders) - the zonal attachment principle.

That doesn't quite cover it fully (there's some key continentally loved species that don't cross EEZs), but is the principle underpinning things.

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
crankedup said:
Or we could put to work all of those illegal immigrants, after all they do have seafaring experience smile
thumbup

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Can someone confirm when the German car industry are going to say something please?

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
Can someone confirm when the German car industry are going to say something please?
They already have...

Twice.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 15th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Do you believe the predominant reason we are not able to secure an all encompassing free trade agreement with the entire EU is disagreement over France's access to UK fishing waters?
It's not THE reason but it's a reason.

Michel Barnier on fishing:
"The EU wants the status quo, the UK wants to change everything, If we want an agreement we have to discuss somewhere in between these positions."




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