How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)
Discussion
catweasle said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
catweasle said:
We don't exclude them..........we just sell them a permit.
How much income would that generate?Rolling reminder, French are our natural enemy.
Waiting for an Arkell vs Pressdram moment from Bozzer. Maybe the only thing that will bring various folks to their senses now, diplomacy sure ain't working. Didn't want to end up here, but we are where we are, for better or worse. Certainly there's a few posters on here deserving of a simple **** Off.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
There isn't any slack. This thinking is where people are going wrong.
If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.
The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.
We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
There is slack if nobody is willing to buy the permits.If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.
The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.
We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
slow_poke said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
There isn't any slack. This thinking is where people are going wrong.
If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.
The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.
We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
There is slack if nobody is willing to buy the permits.If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.
The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.
We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 15th October 11:26
paulrockliffe said:
And if they're not it matters not one jot to us. There may be demand for fish in France, but that doesn't mean there's 'slack' that we need to fulfill. There's a whole world out there for the French to explore.
If it doesn't matter why champion it and fail to achieve a FTA because of it?RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
FIshing rights is just a totem. It isn't big enough of its own right to prevent us reaching a free trade agreement. It would be like Mbappe saying he would only sign for Man Utd if they gave him a specific space in the staff car park, otherwise no deal.
Best email Macron then.Stay in Bed Instead said:
paulrockliffe said:
And if they're not it matters not one jot to us. There may be demand for fish in France, but that doesn't mean there's 'slack' that we need to fulfill. There's a whole world out there for the French to explore.
If it doesn't matter why champion it and fail to achieve a FTA because of it?We're talking about the a no-deal scenario where the french lose access to our waters, no one has postulated anything about a wider preference for a deal or not.
You argued, to paraphrase, that "OMG the French need fish, and we can't get them for them." The French might care about that, but why would we?
Perhaps Macron has a plan to get them elsewhere, who knows? Who cares?
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
catweasle said:
Best email Macron then.
I'll CC Boris and tell them both to stop being a pair of silly s and just get on with doing a deal.There's obviously a fairly chunky principle stopping a deal from being done, and it's not because France is afraid of running out of haddock.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
catweasle said:
Best email Macron then.
I'll CC Boris and tell them both to stop being a pair of silly s and just get on with doing a deal.There's obviously a fairly chunky principle stopping a deal from being done, and it's not because France is afraid of running out of haddock.
You really need to ask them why they are so keen, or maybe ask yourself why you think they're so keen if you think it's a non-issue.
Or do you expect Boris to accept their demands? Is that what you think should happen?
paulrockliffe said:
catweasle said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Do we have a UK fleet that can take up the slack once we exclude French fishermen?
We don't exclude them..........we just sell them a permit.If the French elect to exclude themselves from UK waters by dint of their refusal to accept the inevitable consequences of Brexit - Macron's own words - then that doesn't mean that UK and Norwegians then need to scrabble around pulling those fish out so the French have something to eat.
The French will just have to eat something else and take it up with Macron.
We could offer permits unilaterally, negotiate with the Fishermen directly as it were. We can tag it onto the Land Bridge permit system easily enough.
Essentially, foreign owned vessels can obtain domestic quota if they can show sufficient economic linkage to the domestic industry.
Typically this involves domestic port of registration, domestic port being used for landing, etc.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
crankedup said:
No, but we could offer to buy up those redundant French boats, business opportunity beckons
Good idea.We can retrain all the redundant hospitality workers as fishermen too.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
To be a pedant - it isn't access that's the issue. It's how quotas are determined...
The EU is desperate to retain the archaic approach that fundamentally boils down to "if I was able to land it last year, I'll be able to land it this year". That's the basis behind the CFP to prevent a st ton of arguing every year.
Instead, we want to move to the same approach the very best fisheries across the world have moved to for shared stocks (fish that move across borders) - the zonal attachment principle.
That doesn't quite cover it fully (there's some key continentally loved species that don't cross EEZs), but is the principle underpinning things.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Do you believe the predominant reason we are not able to secure an all encompassing free trade agreement with the entire EU is disagreement over France's access to UK fishing waters? Michel Barnier on fishing:
"The EU wants the status quo, the UK wants to change everything, If we want an agreement we have to discuss somewhere in between these positions."
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