TFL to extend Congestion Charge Zone...?!
Discussion
NomduJour said:
Khan: “As Mayor, I simply cannot accept these Government proposals for TfL, which would hit Londoners with a triple whammy of higher costs at a time when so many people are already facing hardship.”
Fair enough. How does your £12.50 a day ULEZ with the same boundaries fit with that, then?
ULEZ is very easily swerveable though, in my case its take the 3 litre BM than the 2 litre Honda Fair enough. How does your £12.50 a day ULEZ with the same boundaries fit with that, then?
CC cannot be avoided even if fully electric
NomduJour said:
Of course - every one affected by ULEZ should just buy a different car - that’s the argument we’ve already heard - and then just pay another £15 a day in their new car.
As someone affected by both ULEZ and the proposed CC extension I have a choiceI can make my next car purchase with these things in mind, I can be aware of the zones and what journeys I need to make within them and whether they are important enough to pay £15 or if Public Transport is a better/cheaper option
Or I can stamp my feet and piss and moan and let it affect my life even more
I have gone with option A personally
Camden seems to be trying to get rid of the car completely.
"Healthy School Streets make the streets outside schools safer at the start and end of the school day by restricting cars so it is easier and safer to walk to school. "
"A further five schools in the Fitzjohn’s Avenue area will have Healthy School Streets to be launched in October."
"Following on from our successful implementation of four Streateries across Camden and five pavement widening schemes we are now widening the pavement in three further busy Camden locations:
Heath Street
Regent’s Park Road
Brecknock Road" (To widen the pavement means they may have to lose parking places)
"Alongside traffic free streets, parking and loading spaces will be removed from across the area and given over to pedestrians"
"Removing paid and residential parking near Copenhagen Street to enable a safe continuous, cycle facility to be built leading up to the junction.
Removing off-peak hours parking facility on York Way between Crinan Street and Wharfdale Road.
Restricting the ability for vehicles to load next to the kerb between Freight Lane and Crinan Street to create an uninterrupted, safe cycling route."
https://news.camden.gov.uk/coronavirus-camden-resp...
"Healthy School Streets make the streets outside schools safer at the start and end of the school day by restricting cars so it is easier and safer to walk to school. "
"A further five schools in the Fitzjohn’s Avenue area will have Healthy School Streets to be launched in October."
"Following on from our successful implementation of four Streateries across Camden and five pavement widening schemes we are now widening the pavement in three further busy Camden locations:
Heath Street
Regent’s Park Road
Brecknock Road" (To widen the pavement means they may have to lose parking places)
"Alongside traffic free streets, parking and loading spaces will be removed from across the area and given over to pedestrians"
"Removing paid and residential parking near Copenhagen Street to enable a safe continuous, cycle facility to be built leading up to the junction.
Removing off-peak hours parking facility on York Way between Crinan Street and Wharfdale Road.
Restricting the ability for vehicles to load next to the kerb between Freight Lane and Crinan Street to create an uninterrupted, safe cycling route."
https://news.camden.gov.uk/coronavirus-camden-resp...
Misanthrope said:
Yes, we know the reasons for the congestion. Narrowing roads to add cycle lanes, converting roundabouts and one-way systems to stupid two way junctions with hundreds of traffic lights, closing back roads to force everyone into the bottlenecks they have created.
The whole thing is a huge piss take. They cause the problem then want to charge us for it. It's like a cop punching you in the face then nicking you for assaulting a police officer on the basis that you head-butted his fist.
But we had congestion in London before any of this was implemented. They might have made an existing issue worse, but your memory is short if you think they are the root cause.The whole thing is a huge piss take. They cause the problem then want to charge us for it. It's like a cop punching you in the face then nicking you for assaulting a police officer on the basis that you head-butted his fist.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You're not going to fit in well around here.We prefer to invent imaginary scenarios where everyone in Greater London is regularly taking ULEZ journeys in non-compliant cars, but can't afford to switch because there are only three compliant cars for sale in the whole country and they are all unreliable yet cost at least £100k.
FWIW I took option A too. I like to embrace change for the better.
C70R said:
But we had congestion in London before any of this was implemented. They might have made an existing issue worse, but your memory is short if you think they are the root cause.
Most private passenger journeys are made by public transport, bike, or on foot. Private cars (still) aren’t the problem. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/h...
NomduJour said:
C70R said:
But we had congestion in London before any of this was implemented. They might have made an existing issue worse, but your memory is short if you think they are the root cause.
Most private passenger journeys are made by public transport, bike, or on foot. Private cars (still) aren’t the problem. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/h...
Article said:
However, Ollie More, a policy officer at the sustainable transport charity Sustrans, argues that being a non-driver doesn’t exclude people like him from the pain of traffic – be it on a slow bus or while cycling to work. “I go a long, convoluted route to be safe, so it takes a long time. We all feel it the same.”
He says that, of the 6.8m private vehicle trips made daily in Greater London, 4.2m could be walked or cycled.
He says that, of the 6.8m private vehicle trips made daily in Greater London, 4.2m could be walked or cycled.
C70R said:
Misanthrope said:
Yes, we know the reasons for the congestion. Narrowing roads to add cycle lanes, converting roundabouts and one-way systems to stupid two way junctions with hundreds of traffic lights, closing back roads to force everyone into the bottlenecks they have created.
The whole thing is a huge piss take. They cause the problem then want to charge us for it. It's like a cop punching you in the face then nicking you for assaulting a police officer on the basis that you head-butted his fist.
But we had congestion in London before any of this was implemented. They might have made an existing issue worse, but your memory is short if you think they are the root cause.The whole thing is a huge piss take. They cause the problem then want to charge us for it. It's like a cop punching you in the face then nicking you for assaulting a police officer on the basis that you head-butted his fist.
For an example, try driving along the A20 in either direction through this monstrosity:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4637999,-0.01241...
It seems to have been designed to maximise traffic jams. If you don't know the area, it used to be a roundabout, and the traffic flowed much better.
From personal experience it's not the number of cars driving into London that's the problem, it's the number of cars looking for somewhere to park.
In the 80's I would often see a car being removed by parking enforcement and having 2 or 3 cars waiting to park when the spot became vacant
It's been a problem for a very long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdHv01IgcWs
In the 80's I would often see a car being removed by parking enforcement and having 2 or 3 cars waiting to park when the spot became vacant
It's been a problem for a very long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdHv01IgcWs
NomduJour said:
valiant said:
How did Khan mismanage TfL’s budget? (cue fare freeze in 3,2,1...)
£17bn+ liabilities, that’s up about 50% since 2015/16:
How much is for capital projects (S-Stock, 4LM project, station upgrades, etc, etc)?
Numbers are meaningless without context.
Just for balance, how much was the operating deficit under Boris compared to Khan? How much did Boris’ vanity projects cost compared to Khan’s? How much was the government grant under Boris compared to Khan?
C70R said:
You're not going to fit in well around here.
We prefer to invent imaginary scenarios where everyone in Greater London is regularly taking ULEZ journeys in non-compliant cars, but can't afford to switch because there are only three compliant cars for sale in the whole country and they are all unreliable yet cost at least £100k.
FWIW I took option A too. I like to embrace change for the better.
We prefer to invent imaginary scenarios where everyone in Greater London is regularly taking ULEZ journeys in non-compliant cars, but can't afford to switch because there are only three compliant cars for sale in the whole country and they are all unreliable yet cost at least £100k.
FWIW I took option A too. I like to embrace change for the better.
Don't get me wrong neither is particularly ideal but one is certainly pretty easy to sort without spending millions, the CC would be more of a pain but I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen so I'd rather focus my energies into actually working out what to do, do I need to make journeys inside N/S Circular in a car and go from there
Ar63 said:
I live in the planned expanded area, so this would affect me. Sold my reliable diesel car in preparation for ulez and now this....
Even though there are good transport links locally, it's far too slow to get around. 45 mins to get to my parents, 10 mins by car. And now with covid my car is the safest place outside of my house.
Don't drive very often but a car is a must for shopping and when taking the kids out.
Online shopping has been a pretty miserable experience. Wait 3 days and then find out something you wanted isn't available. Much easier to take the car and get it all in one go.
Tired kids, pram, bags, all much easier with a car. Genuinely don't know how people do it without a car when kids are in the picture. My neighbour tried it, gave up and bought a car again
I am only doing the bus thing because of a driving ban... Thankfully the buses are frequent, and the District and Victoria line are reliable enough. Seats are dirtier than a Katie Price Only Fans gallery, even the newer 2017 District Line train seats are threadbare in places. Even though there are good transport links locally, it's far too slow to get around. 45 mins to get to my parents, 10 mins by car. And now with covid my car is the safest place outside of my house.
Don't drive very often but a car is a must for shopping and when taking the kids out.
Online shopping has been a pretty miserable experience. Wait 3 days and then find out something you wanted isn't available. Much easier to take the car and get it all in one go.
Tired kids, pram, bags, all much easier with a car. Genuinely don't know how people do it without a car when kids are in the picture. My neighbour tried it, gave up and bought a car again
The threat of the Congestion Charge extension demand is just to impress on Sadiq Khan how broke TfL is. The 518 workers in the upper echelons of TfL making over £100k can be shown the door if they were really serious about making reform to the network.
In the lashing rain of this morning, I missed not being able to get in my car
Government will either let it go bust and take over, or just take over and make changes at the end of the month...
kers.gottans said:
The OP is surprised by this??
As soon as the congestion charging zone was created and shown to raise revenue it was inevitable it would expand. I think Buzz Lightyear summed it up 'to infinity and beyond!!!'
Not at all surprised. In my mind as soon as the ULEZ was announced I commented how easy it would be to add the extras! Missed the global pandemic and saw this but not under these exact circumstances!!As soon as the congestion charging zone was created and shown to raise revenue it was inevitable it would expand. I think Buzz Lightyear summed it up 'to infinity and beyond!!!'
We live 500m outside the South Circular and so 90% of the journeys we make are in the new proposed CC area
Edited by Turfy on Wednesday 21st October 23:10
NomduJour said:
If that is part of the only option on the table (and it doesn’t necessarily appear that it is - the leaks are from one side), Khan will have to decide if he wants to go for reelection as the Mayor who allowed TfL to collapse, or the Mayor who imposed an impossible level of restriction on anyone who ever uses a car.
As others have said, if push came to shove as Mayor the best option would be to say “ok fine you run it then” and hand the keys to DfT.I think Whitehall know this, which means their threats aren’t that credible.
a) Highly unlikely the Tories would impose the expanded zone when they couldn’t pin it on Sadiq, and instead allow him the space to publicly oppose it at every turn
b) There’d be complete carnage - the unions would probably strike almost pre-emptively now they’re “controlled” by the Tories. Highly unlikely TfL staff would be co-operative. It’d be extremely difficult to actually reform anything, at least not quickly.
c) Fundamentally DfT don’t actually want to take control of TfL; they don’t want to have to clean up that mess themselves - far easier just to point it out and say “Sadiq fix it”. DfT know that if they came to run TfL, Whitehall would probably end up having to pile in *more* money to keep a service running than if it stays in current hands.
It’s all posturing. A deal will be done. I expect Sadiq will agree to
- Fare rises
- Changes to concessions - e.g. pensioner freedom pass to become bus only, introduction of child fares at weekends, etc.
- A commitment to cut costs at TfL by £xm by some date
In exchange Whitehall gives a bailout that “protects essential services and the jobs of hard-working families who rely on them”
There was noise of introducing a 'clean air zone' in Derby, except Derby is way too small, with only 250k people, the proposed zone was far too large for the size of the place, it was supposed to extend beyond the inner ring road, which meant getting from one side of Derby to the other, AROUND the city centre, put you into said zone. In the end I think they widened some roads, which apparently solved the pollution problem
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