Teacher decapitated in Paris by enraged parent.

Teacher decapitated in Paris by enraged parent.

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Discussion

TheGreatDane

351 posts

69 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
coolg said:
The most literal interpretation of the book?
What would you choose to follow medicine from 100's of years ago or follow modern medicine?

As mentioned before you cant live in todays modern world following religious texts from any religion down to a tee without causing issues.

And if Saudi & the rulers there follow it literally, ask yourself why they fly out to Bahrain/UAE every weekend.

Hint: its not to be "good muslims".

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
Threw me off there, I assume you mean 10.41am.

Take for example in the quran it says defend yourself vs those who attack you and your religion, back when it was written I assume this was rife.

Who attacks a religion now? Hardly anyone. If someone takes a FB post by an individual as an attack on the religion and deems it bad enough that they should die based on what the texts say, that to me is a grade A nutjob.

Saudi is now a fallacy. On the outside its all textbook muslims, behind the scenes they're doing whatever the hell they feel like.

Its personal opinion, I apply logic to my religion and have it so I'm following it and living peacefully.
May I ask you a few questions how logic figures here.
Do you believe....
1. The Koran is the true word of Allah?
2. Mo really split the moon in two ( or more ) pieces ?
3. A flying horse took him to heaven
4. Verses 33:50 and 33:53 are revelations Allah felt compelled mankind should follow.

Thanks in advance.



TheGreatDane

351 posts

69 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
May I ask you a few questions how logic figures here.
Do you believe....
1. The Koran is the true word of Allah?
2. Mo really split the moon in two ( or more ) pieces ?
3. A flying horse took him to heaven
4. Verses 33:50 and 33:53 are revelations Allah felt compelled mankind should follow.

Thanks in advance.
Seems like you're trying to catch me out here chap, me being a person of logic (who happens to be a muslim)

By all means I can't answer yes to point 1 and then say I disagree with point 2-4 can I?

I gave my opinion on this thread, albeit heavily influenced by the western world but ultimately isn't that the outcry that no one integrates and so forth?

So now we have an example of an individual who has integrated into the western world and the topic is shifting into the validity of the religion, which I won't entertain to be honest (and my answer would be the same if I were Christian, Hindu or Jewish).

Bottom line is knobheads exist everywhere, this subsection of knobheads take things too far.




Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
Troubleatmill said:
May I ask you a few questions how logic figures here.
Do you believe....
1. The Koran is the true word of Allah?
2. Mo really split the moon in two ( or more ) pieces ?
3. A flying horse took him to heaven
4. Verses 33:50 and 33:53 are revelations Allah felt compelled mankind should follow.

Thanks in advance.
Seems like you're trying to catch me out here chap, me being a person of logic (who happens to be a muslim)

By all means I can't answer yes to point 1 and then say I disagree with point 2-4 can I?

I gave my opinion on this thread, albeit heavily influenced by the western world but ultimately isn't that the outcry that no one integrates and so forth?

So now we have an example of an individual who has integrated into the western world and the topic is shifting into the validity of the religion, which I won't entertain to be honest (and my answer would be the same if I were Christian, Hindu or Jewish).

Bottom line is knobheads exist everywhere, this subsection of knobheads take things too far.

All throughout history mankind has progressed by challenging established knowledge and beliefs.

Like most religions it has some far fetched stuff in there.


We would all be praying to our local Jub Jub in the mountain to ensure we don't have earthquakes if we didn't challenge what we believed.

There is nothing special about Islam.
So why can't Islam be challenged?

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
TheGreatDane said:
Threw me off there, I assume you mean 10.41am.

Take for example in the quran it says defend yourself vs those who attack you and your religion, back when it was written I assume this was rife.

Who attacks a religion now? Hardly anyone. If someone takes a FB post by an individual as an attack on the religion and deems it bad enough that they should die based on what the texts say, that to me is a grade A nutjob.

Saudi is now a fallacy. On the outside its all textbook muslims, behind the scenes they're doing whatever the hell they feel like.

Its personal opinion, I apply logic to my religion and have it so I'm following it and living peacefully.
May I ask you a few questions how logic figures here.
Do you believe....
1. The Koran is the true word of Allah?
2. Mo really split the moon in two ( or more ) pieces ?
3. A flying horse took him to heaven
4. Verses 33:50 and 33:53 are revelations Allah felt compelled mankind should follow.

Thanks in advance.
Is it not a fact that all the religious texts are full of contradictions, anomalies, and general dreadful behaviour and advice, and it is easy to focus upon that rather than the positive things?

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
But, this is the perfect last true word of a Sky Fairy.

Sky Fairy can’t surely be flawed?
Can she?


And how is it a good thing to brainwash (and mutilate) babies?

I don’t know of any religion that says. Once they are of adult age - we shall teach them.


No. It is pecker butchered and as soon as they can understand start them on the praying drill.

coolg

650 posts

45 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
coolg said:
The most literal interpretation of the book?
What would you choose to follow medicine from 100's of years ago or follow modern medicine?

As mentioned before you cant live in todays modern world following religious texts from any religion down to a tee without causing issues.

And if Saudi & the rulers there follow it literally, ask yourself why they fly out to Bahrain/UAE every weekend.

Hint: its not to be "good muslims".
Agree 100%.

But somebody living like that in the modern world is not un-Islamic, they are out of date but taking the verses we don’t like and acting on them could be argued is more Islamic than your way of life.



coolg

650 posts

45 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Is it not a fact that all the religious texts are full of contradictions, anomalies, and general dreadful behaviour and advice, and it is easy to focus upon that rather than the positive things?
Of course but somebody acting on the dreadful behaviour or advice Is not un Islamic.


coolg

650 posts

45 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
Threw me off there, I assume you mean 10.41am.

Take for example in the quran it says defend yourself vs those who attack you and your religion, back when it was written I assume this was rife.

.
Again I agree very different times.

But somebody acting on this is not un Islamic / twisting the message / mis interpreting the word.

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
coolg said:
biggbn said:
Is it not a fact that all the religious texts are full of contradictions, anomalies, and general dreadful behaviour and advice, and it is easy to focus upon that rather than the positive things?
Of course but somebody acting on the dreadful behaviour or advice Is not un Islamic.
Is someone acting on similar advice from the bible not unchristian? I am not taking a contrary stance, just genuinely interested in your opinion. Are you anti religion or anti islam?

coolg

650 posts

45 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
biggbn said:
coolg said:
biggbn said:
Is it not a fact that all the religious texts are full of contradictions, anomalies, and general dreadful behaviour and advice, and it is easy to focus upon that rather than the positive things?
Of course but somebody acting on the dreadful behaviour or advice Is not un Islamic.
Is someone acting on similar advice from the bible not unchristian? I am not taking a contrary stance, just genuinely interested in your opinion. Are you anti religion or anti islam?
If it is written in the book and is an instruction from god, I fail to see how it could be un Christian ? Providing the message was not cancelled out by a later message or act.

The problem with Islam and the west is that everything bad is instantly not Islam, not what Islam is about, a misinterpretation of the true message.

If we can have the conversation that these parts are Islamic they are written in the book, they are an instruction from god. Then recognise that they are out of date not practical in the modern world Islam and the west would start to have a better relationship.

A man walks round shouting Allah Akbar killing people and all we ever get is it is nothing to do with Islam it is a religion of peace etc etc

I am not religious and I find the idea of it quite bizarre. If it was Hindus carrying out the Outdated parts of their religion we would be discussing Hinduism, or more likely telling everybody how wonderful it was and inventing laws / concepts to protect it.

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
coolg said:
biggbn said:
coolg said:
biggbn said:
Is it not a fact that all the religious texts are full of contradictions, anomalies, and general dreadful behaviour and advice, and it is easy to focus upon that rather than the positive things?
Of course but somebody acting on the dreadful behaviour or advice Is not un Islamic.
Is someone acting on similar advice from the bible not unchristian? I am not taking a contrary stance, just genuinely interested in your opinion. Are you anti religion or anti islam?
If it is written in the book and is an instruction from god, I fail to see how it could be un Christian ? Providing the message was not cancelled out by a later message or act.

The problem with Islam and the west is that everything bad is instantly not Islam, not what Islam is about, a misinterpretation of the true message.

If we can have the conversation that these parts are Islamic they are written in the book, they are an instruction from god. Then recognise that they are out of date not practical in the modern world Islam and the west would start to have a better relationship.

A man walks round shouting Allah Akbar killing people and all we ever get is it is nothing to do with Islam it is a religion of peace etc etc

I am not religious and I find the idea of it quite bizarre. If it was Hindus carrying out the Outdated parts of their religion we would be discussing Hinduism, or more likely telling everybody how wonderful it was and inventing laws / concepts to protect it.
Thanks for that brother man

McGee_22

6,654 posts

178 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
As an example of acceptable jokes in other religions I was bought up as Roman Catholic and have always happily joked that all I have to do is crack in a few hail Marys and a quick 'I'm really, REALLY, sorry' before I croak and set off on the sky escalator to heaven (I really hope it is like David Niven's 'A Matter of Life and Death').

My wife is CofE and we always joke that it's a made up religion just so a horny English King could get a quickie divorce and move on to his next conquest.

I recall having dinner once and sitting next to a Jewish couple - after a few drinks I jested that their forebears had nailed the Son of God to a cross and they responded that it wasn't the Son of God, he was just a very naughty boy - the table went from baited breath to us all falling about.

I used to work with a Buddist and asked why their re-incarnation top trumps had a cow near the top - he said it was all they had since the cool dinosaurs had died out.

If you and your faith can't take a joke - how strong is your faith?

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Egypt says freedom of expression 'stops' when Muslims offended
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security...

“We also have rights. We have the right for our feelings not to be hurt and for our values not to be hurt,” he said during an address to commemorate the Prophet Mohammad’s birthday.

lolz

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Amid France-Turkey row, UK calls on NATO allies to defend free speech
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-security-...
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab called on NATO allies to stand shoulder-to-shoulder on values of tolerance and free speech, in a veiled rebuke to Turkey which has been calling for a boycott of French goods.

clio007

542 posts

224 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
Amid France-Turkey row, UK calls on NATO allies to defend free speech
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-security-...
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab called on NATO allies to stand shoulder-to-shoulder on values of tolerance and free speech, in a veiled rebuke to Turkey which has been calling for a boycott of French goods.
What a load of nonsense this free speech is

Go out into the street and make jokes about a persons ethnicity, gender or sexuality and see how far that gets you.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
clio007 said:
What a load of nonsense this free speech is

Go out into the street and make jokes about a persons ethnicity, gender or sexuality and see how far that gets you.
You clearly don't understand the concept.

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
(lots of stuff )

It's a st situation but he lit a fuse.... ( more stuff )

But the is the problem that faces Muslims living in the western world.

We all have the right to mock all religions - in fact pretty much everything; not just religion; is fair game.


There are only 2 acceptable options for Muslims.

1. You have to suck it up. There are freedoms we all have and a few will offend you.
That means - you are the problem.
Everyone else sucks it up - you do too.
You and your religion are not special in the slightest.

2. You decide that the values and rights of the country you are living isn't is incompatible with something you treasure so dear.
Then be somewhere else.

If Western society cow-tows to the lowest common denominator - then the human race is fecked.




stitched

3,813 posts

172 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
TheGreatDane said:
Troubleatmill said:
May I ask you a few questions how logic figures here.
Do you believe....
1. The Koran is the true word of Allah?
2. Mo really split the moon in two ( or more ) pieces ?
3. A flying horse took him to heaven
4. Verses 33:50 and 33:53 are revelations Allah felt compelled mankind should follow.

Thanks in advance.
Seems like you're trying to catch me out here chap, me being a person of logic (who happens to be a muslim)

By all means I can't answer yes to point 1 and then say I disagree with point 2-4 can I?

I gave my opinion on this thread, albeit heavily influenced by the western world but ultimately isn't that the outcry that no one integrates and so forth?

So now we have an example of an individual who has integrated into the western world and the topic is shifting into the validity of the religion, which I won't entertain to be honest (and my answer would be the same if I were Christian, Hindu or Jewish).

Bottom line is knobheads exist everywhere, this subsection of knobheads take things too far.

This question is genuinely not an attempt to trip you, nor is it in any way meant to denigrate your religion.
Do you feel, as a devout muslim, that the islamic faith is compatible with western society?
In your case it obviously is but in general?

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
stitched said:
This question is genuinely not an attempt to trip you, nor is it in any way meant to denigrate your religion.
Do you feel, as a devout muslim, that the islamic faith is compatible with western society?
In your case it obviously is but in general?
TheGreatDane said:
(lots of stuff )
It's a st situation but he lit a fuse....
( more stuff )
Just read our protagonists response.
It should scare you.