Kids getting ripped off at Uni
Discussion
Okay, sorry now for another CV19 related thread but this one deserves its own I think.
Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
"Go back to Uni it's safe" followed by "Now you've paid your rent and tuition fees stay in your rented accommodation and learn online which you could have done from home".
I think the landlords are doing OK out of it.
I think the Uni's are doing OK out of it.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence it's worked out that way.
Fingers crossed he's dealing with it OK.
I think the landlords are doing OK out of it.
I think the Uni's are doing OK out of it.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence it's worked out that way.
Fingers crossed he's dealing with it OK.
Student debt financial "burden" is mostly a myth:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student...
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student...
The whole thing has been handled incredibly badly.
For courses which do not require lab work or specialist equipment (which is most of them) they should have just drastically reduced the fees and told all the students to stay at home this year and learn remotely.
There is no excuse for the universities not to have used the months of summer to make sure their remote learning and remote lecture systems worked.
But of course the universities were never going to do that. They wanted their hands on the money.
For courses which do not require lab work or specialist equipment (which is most of them) they should have just drastically reduced the fees and told all the students to stay at home this year and learn remotely.
There is no excuse for the universities not to have used the months of summer to make sure their remote learning and remote lecture systems worked.
But of course the universities were never going to do that. They wanted their hands on the money.
Lotobear said:
Okay, sorry now for another CV19 related thread but this one deserves its own I think.
Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
A university course is a product. If it doesn't conform to what is advertised, then it should reduce it's charges. If purchasers are unable to get the use out of it at the end of the period, then they should be reimbursed the whole amount. Loto junior is on the second year of his degree at a well know northern city. He's a dedicated and very independent lad and works hard - he skipped doing A levels and went Btec for two years to qualify onto the degree course (surveying). He knows what he want to do.
We tried to get him onto a degree apprentice scheme at first but without success - he would have preferred that and doubtless flourished in the work/educate environment
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
He and all his pals are getting disillusioned whilst the Uni rakes it in and the staff sit at home smoking weed (okay I admit that's a guess but probably not far from the truth). Meanhwile the Landlords are looking cushty.
He's now talking of wanting to pack it all in and try for a job - he feels very let down and has become very cynical about the whole thing "the 40k debt is just a payment for your degree".
Personally I think this is an absolute national disgrace and one of the hidden areas of damage being wrought by this bloody virus and in particular the Govt response to it.
I would like to think they will be given some sort of refund or some of the debt defrayed but I'm not banking on it. However the damage is more than purely financial.
Meanwhile all these youngsters are either going to get a crap degree or else one which is devalued by a perception that they were awarded 'easily' due to the Covid situation which prevailed at the time.
Anyway I accept that's something of a personal rant but what do others think?
As you said, the £40,000 is to buy a degree. If the course was badly produced, whatever the reason, then the university is not living up to the requirements. The rent and other on-costs might even be claimable. They should be morally.
A rant is reasonable. There can be few who do not feel your frustration.
Huge amount of "university" (but it's actually private sector) building in my area over the past ten years - in fact it's the only things around here that are built more than five stories nowdays. Many hundreds of accommodation units in one South Coast town.
All investor money, most probably Chinese? Interesting that there seems to have been a concerted effort to protect these investments, when I can't see there is any public or national interest in doing so (unless you're the investor)?
All investor money, most probably Chinese? Interesting that there seems to have been a concerted effort to protect these investments, when I can't see there is any public or national interest in doing so (unless you're the investor)?
I'm so glad my kids are not in this position, especially in their second or third year. OP, completely agree with you. I suspect the Govt. will have to come up with something. While a large part of most degree courses is self study having access to lecturers etc is key and if that is not available there will be a lot of people failing the current year. You can't just gift them a grade and let them finish Uni with only half a degree so maybe the option of resitting the year FOC, full rent and grant paid? Wonder how much that would cost!
My take on this is in 2021 new uni students might look at whats on offer in the UK and then look whats on offer on line from accredited overseas universities via remote learning and think....hmmm 10k plus expenses to the uk or save a load of cash and get a degree.
Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
On the other hand there are some universities and/or University departments demonstrating why they are at the top of the tree for innovation and can do attitude.
They are not always the high profile institutions either, quite the opposite in my experience.
Some youngsters are managing to keep calm and carry on, but no media value in their stories apparently.
What's the alternative? no one size fits all?
The pressure to get a degree IMHO is well out of kilter with its value for far too many youngsters. No big deal in good times but at the moment its made many think hard and soberly about the choices they have made.
They are not always the high profile institutions either, quite the opposite in my experience.
Some youngsters are managing to keep calm and carry on, but no media value in their stories apparently.
What's the alternative? no one size fits all?
The pressure to get a degree IMHO is well out of kilter with its value for far too many youngsters. No big deal in good times but at the moment its made many think hard and soberly about the choices they have made.
Lot's of foreign students haven't turned up this year due to Covid so instead the universities have had to take domestic students who pay a fraction of what foreign ones pay in fees (9k vs over 20k per year).
For those considering quitting there's a deadline approaching to get a percentage back https://www.which.co.uk/money/university-and-stude...
I think if someone went to small claims they could probably argue a successful case for not getting value for money and a full refund but it would have to be tested.
For those considering quitting there's a deadline approaching to get a percentage back https://www.which.co.uk/money/university-and-stude...
I think if someone went to small claims they could probably argue a successful case for not getting value for money and a full refund but it would have to be tested.
I went to uni when it was 3 grand year, had plenty of lab time and still felt like it was expensive for what it was.
It is funny to me, because the message in my day was "You have to come in for lectures, students who try to work from home don't do as well", which has conveniently changed to "Give us our 10 grand a year, lock yourself in your tiny bedroom and enjoy the Zoom lectures, you f
king saps".
It is funny to me, because the message in my day was "You have to come in for lectures, students who try to work from home don't do as well", which has conveniently changed to "Give us our 10 grand a year, lock yourself in your tiny bedroom and enjoy the Zoom lectures, you f
king saps".Lotobear said:
Now he's holed up in a small room in a flat with a few mates unable to do much at all - in exchange for his debt and rent he receives 1, I repeat, 1 hour of remote lecture time per week and complains they have not even given them a timetable yet!! He could do this at home of course but he's not allowed out.
Are you tempted to just go and get him back? I've got complete sympathy for someone in his position, the way the youngsters have been treated in this whole Covid thing is utterly shocking from the messing up of the exam results, taking away the 'last days of school' feeling, no freshers week activities and now the uni students are locked in their halls with not much to do, all whilst getting the blame for spreading the virus around.Evoluzione said:
Can he opt out, go get a job then go back to it in later years?
We've discussed this and, being a surveyor myself, I have made enquires with a number of firms and contacts to see if he can get on to a degree apprentice position at this stage.However, employers run a mile as, yes, they are all working from home so there are no offices for him to work at or gain the necessary experience.
Push comes to shove he could work for me but I have never thought that would be good for him - he needs to be out in the bright lights/big city and get the rounded experience, personal and professional, he would get in a big firm.
Mastodon2 said:
I went to uni when it was 3 grand year, had plenty of lab time and still felt like it was expensive for what it was.
It is funny to me, because the message in my day was "You have to come in for lectures, students who try to work from home don't do as well", which has conveniently changed to "Give us our 10 grand a year, lock yourself in your tiny bedroom and enjoy the Zoom lectures, you fking saps".
Back in my day it was free with a non-repayable grant! Still felt expensive then It is funny to me, because the message in my day was "You have to come in for lectures, students who try to work from home don't do as well", which has conveniently changed to "Give us our 10 grand a year, lock yourself in your tiny bedroom and enjoy the Zoom lectures, you f
king saps".
I remember to this day when I got my grant money payed into my account. I'd never had so much money and proceeded to spend it as quickly as possible on cars and booze.
Happy days...
Here's another one...
two mates off another course but in the same street were 'visited' by a couple of young student girls the other night (oh to be young again)
Okay it's against the rules but they were duly dobbed in by a curtain twitcher and within minutes the Covid marshalls were knocking on the door demanding access - lads told them to do one and next thing they know is the police were around and demanded access which they granted (not sure that is even legal without a warrant) and they searched the flat. Young girls were secreted in a wardrobe and BiB went on their way.
This is kosher by the way (first hand).
two mates off another course but in the same street were 'visited' by a couple of young student girls the other night (oh to be young again)
Okay it's against the rules but they were duly dobbed in by a curtain twitcher and within minutes the Covid marshalls were knocking on the door demanding access - lads told them to do one and next thing they know is the police were around and demanded access which they granted (not sure that is even legal without a warrant) and they searched the flat. Young girls were secreted in a wardrobe and BiB went on their way.
This is kosher by the way (first hand).
Probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but a hundred years ago when I did my degree we were expected to do way more extra-curricular work than what was timetabled. What we didn’t have was all of humankind’s knowledge available to us at the end of a laptop. I don’t get the ‘nothing to do’ theme.
I have a great deal of sympathy for the students that are missing out on the university life.
Hope it all works out for your lad
I have a great deal of sympathy for the students that are missing out on the university life.
Hope it all works out for your lad
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