Suspected terror attack in Nice

[Derek Smith]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54729957

Listening to the news at the time I posted. Should read Suspected terrorist attack in Nice. If mods could do me a favour.

Quite, quite horrible. Really repulsive.

[Last Visit]

Indeed Derek, agreed.

Just read of this on the news, horrible situation. France does get it hard from such attacks it appears.

[Derek Smith]

The contemptible nature of the offences just makes me angry.

I’ve told next of kin that their loved one was killed in an RTA, and a couple of suicides. How do you tell them that they’ve been beheaded in a pointless act of horror?

They’ve not only killed people but changed the lives of their loved ones forever.

(Thanks, mods, I appreciate the help.)

[s1962a]

this is horrific

[AJL308]

s1962a said:

this is horrific

It is. I'm becoming a bit "meh" about it though. Not because I don't care, I do passionately, but because no one is addressing the Elephant in the room. Until that happens then these things are here to stay.

[s1962a]

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

this is horrific

It is. I'm becoming a bit "meh" about it though. Not because I don't care, I do passionately, but because no one is addressing the Elephant in the room. Until that happens then these things are here to stay.

What is the elephant in the room, in your opinion?

[Iamnotkloot]

Awful and tragic news. France really seems to be a target at present

[AJL308]

s1962a said:

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

this is horrific

It is. I'm becoming a bit "meh" about it though. Not because I don't care, I do passionately, but because no one is addressing the Elephant in the room. Until that happens then these things are here to stay.

What is the elephant in the room, in your opinion?

If you can't see it you aren't in the same room.

[Tyre Smoke]

Not sure what you think the elephant in the room is?

Not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims.

How do you propose to deal with radicalised religious extremists?

[Murph7355]

Derek Smith said:

The contemptible nature of the offences just makes me angry.

I’ve told next of kin that their loved one was killed in an RTA, and a couple of suicides. How do you tell them that they’ve been beheaded in a pointless act of horror?

They’ve not only killed people but changed the lives of their loved ones forever.

(Thanks, mods, I appreciate the help.)

Personally I'm not sure it's necessary to tell them the gorier details. Murdered - yes. By a suspected terrorist - maybe, but not sure that changes much other than encourage issues. Beheaded - why?

I also think press coverage of this stuff is often way too graphic.

Terrorists need attention (for their own ends) and the gorier the details the better. It's in their name! I've long felt that the best approach is to give minimal air time to it and focus much more on zero tolerance to it and how they'll be hunted down and dealt with harshly

Attacks remain rare, so broadcast the fullest details when they happen doesn't seem to achieve much of anything other than stoke fear through sensationalism.

[s1962a]

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

this is horrific

It is. I'm becoming a bit "meh" about it though. Not because I don't care, I do passionately, but because no one is addressing the Elephant in the room. Until that happens then these things are here to stay.

What is the elephant in the room, in your opinion?

If you can't see it you aren't in the same room.

let me take a guess, the rising numbers of muslims in western european countries?

[uncleluck]

All I keep seeing in comments on YT is “they shouldn’t have insulted our prophet”

Why does it even matter to muslims that a non Muslim insults their prophet anyway?

If you believe in that and amongst your other believers someone insults ‘him’ then do what you like to each other, live by the sword etc.

But to shoot up a newspaper then run over dozens of people with a lorry then behead a teacher and now behead 2-3 people in a church because of an insult from people outside of your belief? Why can they not grasp this is just insanity?

Telling me or any other non believer “you can’t insult our prophet” is worthless to a believer surely? Why not rise above it, it shouldn’t matter if you’re a Muslim believer if someone has a different opinion of your religion.

[s1962a]

uncleluck said:

All I keep seeing in comments on YT is “they shouldn’t have insulted our prophet”

Why does it even matter to muslims that a non Muslim insults their prophet anyway?

If you believe in that and amongst your other believers someone insults ‘him’ then do what you like to each other, live by the sword etc.

But to shoot up a newspaper then run over dozens of people with a lorry then behead a teacher and now behead 2-3 people in a church because of an insult from people outside of your belief? Why can they not grasp this is just insanity?

Telling me or any other non believer “you can’t insult our prophet” is worthless to a believer surely? Why not rise above it, it shouldn’t matter if you’re a Muslim believer if someone has a different opinion of your religion.

Agree with this. I asked on another thread why we'd sell arms to regimes that have this view, and the answer was "because money".

[Iamnotkloot]

A further suspected attack has occurred in Avignon, France.

A suspect with a knife reportedly shouting "Allahu Akbar" has been fatally shot during an attack on police officers in the southeastern French city.

[poo at Paul's]

s1962a said:

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

this is horrific

It is. I'm becoming a bit "meh" about it though. Not because I don't care, I do passionately, but because no one is addressing the Elephant in the room. Until that happens then these things are here to stay.

What is the elephant in the room, in your opinion?

First off, what a horrific act, sympathies to all involved.
In answer to your question, is there not a fundamental issue in France and even some urban areas of Belgium, with a seeming tolerance of extremism and that extremism is larger than you many may think?
After the Bataclan atrocity, in the few days after, police in France raided about 1000 addresses of known extremists all over the county, and recovered over 400 illegal (I think from memory) "guns", (although it may have been "weapons").
That is quite some strike rate, more than you would hope, and the mere fact they were able to quickly search 1000 addresses and find 40% of them have illegal weapons, suggest they know more about who these extremists are, but seem to be tolerant of them day to day. An "extremist" on facebook is one thing, and extremist with a gun is quite another.
France is not the only country, i am sure, we have lots to keep our eye on in this country too. But i was very surprised about the after math of the Bataclan and could not help but think, why have they let these people get hold of all these weapons etc if they know who they are?

Anecdotally, France always seems far easier to get hold of other weapons, like big knives, even tasers, cs gas etc compared to the UK.

[Four Litre]

uncleluck said:

All I keep seeing in comments on YT is “they shouldn’t have insulted our prophet”

Why does it even matter to muslims that a non Muslim insults their prophet anyway?

If you believe in that and amongst your other believers someone insults ‘him’ then do what you like to each other, live by the sword etc.

But to shoot up a newspaper then run over dozens of people with a lorry then behead a teacher and now behead 2-3 people in a church because of an insult from people outside of your belief? Why can they not grasp this is just insanity?

Telling me or any other non believer “you can’t insult our prophet” is worthless to a believer surely? Why not rise above it, it shouldn’t matter if you’re a Muslim believer if someone has a different opinion of your religion.

If anyone living in the west has any inclination that the attackers actions were remotely justified, you have no reason to be living in a western society. Time for that fact to be endorsed by government and swiftly acted upon.

[s1962a]

Four Litre said:

uncleluck said:

All I keep seeing in comments on YT is “they shouldn’t have insulted our prophet”

Why does it even matter to muslims that a non Muslim insults their prophet anyway?

If you believe in that and amongst your other believers someone insults ‘him’ then do what you like to each other, live by the sword etc.

But to shoot up a newspaper then run over dozens of people with a lorry then behead a teacher and now behead 2-3 people in a church because of an insult from people outside of your belief? Why can they not grasp this is just insanity?

Telling me or any other non believer “you can’t insult our prophet” is worthless to a believer surely? Why not rise above it, it shouldn’t matter if you’re a Muslim believer if someone has a different opinion of your religion.

If anyone living in the west has any inclination that the attackers actions were remotely justified, you have no reason to be living in a western society. Time for that fact to be endorsed by government and swiftly acted upon.

Agree with this. There is absolutely no justification for these horrific attacks.

You do realise, we do a lot of business with regimes that promote this extremist ideology? We need to dial down the hypocrisy a bit.

[s1962a]

poo at Paul's said:

First off, what a horrific act, sympathies to all involved.
In answer to your question, is there not a fundamental issue in France and even some urban areas of Belgium, with a seeming tolerance of extremism and that extremism is larger than you many may think?
After the Bataclan atrocity, in the few days after, police in France raided about 1000 addresses of known extremists all over the county, and recovered over 400 illegal (I think from memory) "guns", (although it may have been "weapons").
That is quite some strike rate, more than you would hope, and the mere fact they were able to quickly search 1000 addresses and find 40% of them have illegal weapons, suggest they know more about who these extremists are, but seem to be tolerant of them day to day. An "extremist" on facebook is one thing, and extremist with a gun is quite another.
France is not the only country, i am sure, we have lots to keep our eye on in this country too. But i was very surprised about the after math of the Bataclan and could not help but think, why have they let these people get hold of all these weapons etc if they know who they are?

Anecdotally, France always seems far easier to get hold of other weapons, like big knives, even tasers, cs gas etc compared to the UK.

Very good points, which I agree with. I've never met anyone with terrorist views, and I suspect I (as a muslim) would be their enemy because I dont follow their brand of political extremism just as much as anyone else is. They need to be weeded out, and we wont do it by vilifying the entire muslim population.

[Lotobear]

Awful but now so routine it simply 'washes over'.

I would begin by shutting down Twitter and the other platforms used to foment this sort of stuuf but clearly that won't happen.

[poo at Paul's]

s1962a said:

Very good points, which I agree with. I've never met anyone with terrorist views, and I suspect I (as a muslim) would be their enemy because I dont follow their brand of political extremism just as much as anyone else is. They need to be weeded out, and we wont do it by vilifying the entire muslim population.

I agree entirely, in fact, if you were to try to vilify the entire muslim population, you make the extremism worse, it is just fuel to their fire so to speak.

I looked back at some new stuff from Bataclan time, they were finding guns, rocket launchers, explosives etc! And seemingly these people were on their radar!
Quite worrying if that is still the case.