Suspected terror attack in Nice
Discussion
“ The man who stabbed two women and a man to death in a church in France arrived from Tunisia days ago, officials say.
The suspect, 21, had an Italian Red Cross document, issued after he arrived by a migrant boat to Italy's Lampedusa island last month. He was shot by police and is in a critical condition.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54742403
The suspect, 21, had an Italian Red Cross document, issued after he arrived by a migrant boat to Italy's Lampedusa island last month. He was shot by police and is in a critical condition.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54742403
I don't want to make excuses, but S1962a Makes a very valid point, that I believe we need to push in the Muslim world, which is that most Muslims would actually be the enemy of Al Qaeda, its something that many Muslims do not realize. Bush missed a chance here when he made his 'your with us or against us speech.
My wife is a Indonesian Muslim, she has not time for Al Qaeda, how could she? She drives a Porche, has daughter educated in Switzerland, owns 7 houses in her name, they'd probably stone her before me, yet she teaches Islam at the embassy mosque, and is totally accepted in both the formal Islamic world and western consumerism.
A few examples, I work with a Saudi lady, doesn't cover her face, she has a law degree from Harvard, only last week I was given a book on social justice, by a friend who is a direct male decedent of Mohd, I could go on to list many more.
There are loads of such people in the world and we need to bring them on side, by emphasizing what we have in common.
I've lived in SE Asia for 25 years, I think there is a problem in Europe that extremist view are self perpetuating, i.e. if your extreme in Indonesia then the majority of your peer group will not be and will pull you back, while in Europe within certain group of young males it just grows, (I admit that these vies where shaken by the number of middle aged family men who supported the teacher beheading).
My wife is a Indonesian Muslim, she has not time for Al Qaeda, how could she? She drives a Porche, has daughter educated in Switzerland, owns 7 houses in her name, they'd probably stone her before me, yet she teaches Islam at the embassy mosque, and is totally accepted in both the formal Islamic world and western consumerism.
A few examples, I work with a Saudi lady, doesn't cover her face, she has a law degree from Harvard, only last week I was given a book on social justice, by a friend who is a direct male decedent of Mohd, I could go on to list many more.
There are loads of such people in the world and we need to bring them on side, by emphasizing what we have in common.
I've lived in SE Asia for 25 years, I think there is a problem in Europe that extremist view are self perpetuating, i.e. if your extreme in Indonesia then the majority of your peer group will not be and will pull you back, while in Europe within certain group of young males it just grows, (I admit that these vies where shaken by the number of middle aged family men who supported the teacher beheading).
BlackLabel said:
“ The man who stabbed two women and a man to death in a church in France arrived from Tunisia days ago, officials say.
The suspect, 21, had an Italian Red Cross document, issued after he arrived by a migrant boat to Italy's Lampedusa island last month. He was shot by police and is in a critical condition.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54742403
It is almost as if encouraging mass migration via North Africa isn't actually that great an idea. In amongst all the "doctors and engineers" and twenty five year old "children" are going to be some very dangerous people and there isn't the slightest restriction keeping them out. The suspect, 21, had an Italian Red Cross document, issued after he arrived by a migrant boat to Italy's Lampedusa island last month. He was shot by police and is in a critical condition.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54742403
WCZ said:
Iamnotkloot said:
I see the former Prime Minister of Malaysia is trying to calm things down,
"Mahathir Mohamad called Emmanuel Macron "primitive" for blaming Islam and that "Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past".
Dr Mohamad went on to suggest that the way women dress in the West, and indeed equality between the sexes, are values that are not necessarily compatible with the rest of the world"
This, apparently, on Twitter.
Jeeze,
"Today a little string covers the most secret place, that’s all. In fact, many in the west are totally naked when on certain beaches."Mahathir Mohamad called Emmanuel Macron "primitive" for blaming Islam and that "Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past".
Dr Mohamad went on to suggest that the way women dress in the West, and indeed equality between the sexes, are values that are not necessarily compatible with the rest of the world"
This, apparently, on Twitter.
Jeeze,
Generally, the west no longer adhere to their own religion. They are Christians in name only"
from my experience hardly anyone I've ever met in the last 15 years is actually christian in the sense that they go to church, read the bible, have any knowledge of the religion or care about it at all.
when people refer to the 'west' has being christian it's b
ks imopeople will wear whatever they want on a beach...
Bodo said:
...I don't believe that the majority of Muslims living here or anywhere else share the amount of hate that radicals of all sides do. ...
Of course that's true, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. But there are lower levels of incompatibility with Western life that to me seem to permeate Muslim culture. I'll give you three simple examples related to misogyny that seems to be rife:1 - I was doing business with another company and had a meeting with a Muslim director of that other company at his house. We could hear his wife upstairs and we suggested he invite her down during tea as she'd been up there all day. Long story short she wasn't allowed to meet other men.
2 - Numerous females I know hate being in taxis alone with Muslim taxi drivers. Endless lewd/sexual approaches and arguments over the fare etc.
3 - A young 18 year old Pakistani lad I worked with went on holiday to Pakistan and came back "married" to his 14 year old cousin. She used to call the office endlessly but couldn't speak English so if he was out the office it was difficult as I'd say he was out but she'd keep repeating "Mr Ayyaz, Mr Ayyaz" until I had to put the phone down. Long story short she wasn't allowed to leave the house alone, if she needed to then he would accompany her. She didn't need to learn English according to him because she never went out. That was 20 years ago, wonder if she is still holed up there now.
These are just some of my personal experiences. Personally this treatment of women and underage marriages etc are alien to Western culture imo but not the sort of thing you can talk about openly as it doesn't fit with the woke agenda. In the past when I've raised these concerns about Misogyny users on here like Countdown have said they're all lies to shut down the debate and maintain the status quo. Same tactics were used with the Muslim child grooming gangs to keep them quiet, if enough people say its lies and racist to even raise it then they go uninvestigated and effectively condoned.
Interesting that the French Government are now standing up for their values; I applaud that. Immigration shouldn't just be about who can get here, values should be a key consideration too.
Kent Border Kenny said:
s1962a said:
No, i was referring to wahabist islamist extremism - do you know what that is? It's what ISIS and Al Qaeada and their ilk follow.
Never seen anyone in the UK in afghani dress, but a bloke having a beard, or seeing women in hijab, or a man wearing a jewish skullcap is a pretty normal sight in London. Don't tell me you're afraid of seeing people in dress that identifies their religion?
You’re trolling now, you must be. See no evil, hear no evil, play the victim, yet gloat at the idea of people leaving who are concerned, and glory in the increasing number of Muslims in the country.Never seen anyone in the UK in afghani dress, but a bloke having a beard, or seeing women in hijab, or a man wearing a jewish skullcap is a pretty normal sight in London. Don't tell me you're afraid of seeing people in dress that identifies their religion?
You’re the problem mate. You are exactly what good people are concerned about.
Why not look through what wahabist islamist extremism is, and how it's funded, and you might get closer to the source of the problem. Do you agree with us doing big business with these regimes that promote these ideas? What about selling arms to them?
There are big issues within the muslim community which i do not gloss over - terrorism, grooming gangs, failure to adapt and integrate within UK society, low achievement etc, and we should actively work as a society to try and solve these, extremism being the most pertinent one. The answer is not trying to ban a religion - how would you go about doing that anyway?
MikeStroud said:
Bodo said:
...I don't believe that the majority of Muslims living here or anywhere else share the amount of hate that radicals of all sides do. ...
Of course that's true, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. But there are lower levels of incompatibility with Western life that to me seem to permeate Muslim culture. I'll give you three simple examples related to misogyny that seems to be rife:1 - I was doing business with another company and had a meeting with a Muslim director of that other company at his house. We could hear his wife upstairs and we suggested he invite her down during tea as she'd been up there all day. Long story short she wasn't allowed to meet other men.
2 - Numerous females I know hate being in taxis alone with Muslim taxi drivers. Endless lewd/sexual approaches and arguments over the fare etc.
3 - A young 18 year old Pakistani lad I worked with went on holiday to Pakistan and came back "married" to his 14 year old cousin. She used to call the office endlessly but couldn't speak English so if he was out the office it was difficult as I'd say he was out but she'd keep repeating "Mr Ayyaz, Mr Ayyaz" until I had to put the phone down. Long story short she wasn't allowed to leave the house alone, if she needed to then he would accompany her. She didn't need to learn English according to him because she never went out. That was 20 years ago, wonder if she is still holed up there now.
These are just some of my personal experiences. Personally this treatment of women and underage marriages etc are alien to Western culture imo but not the sort of thing you can talk about openly as it doesn't fit with the woke agenda. In the past when I've raised these concerns about Misogyny users on here like Countdown have said they're all lies to shut down the debate and maintain the status quo. Same tactics were used with the Muslim child grooming gangs to keep them quiet, if enough people say its lies and racist to even raise it then they go uninvestigated and effectively condoned.
Interesting that the French Government are now standing up for their values; I applaud that. Immigration shouldn't just be about who can get here, values should be a key consideration too.
Are these experiences up north? Reason for asking is that i've heard similar stories about areas around Yorkshire, but haven't experienced any of it myself.
Agree with your points about France standing up for itself. Terrorism and islamist extremism has no place in any society.
standards said:
F1GTRUeno said:
No, Christian schools can fk off n'all.
That’s around a quarter of all English primary schools IIRC...k off n'all.Just saying
We might disagree with them on all sorts of grounds, they do seem quite popular with parents so I’d take from that they must be doing something right.
My kids' school is CofE - not in your face so (one school we went to look at had Jesus staring at you everywhere you went which was weird), but celebrates the various holidays, does Chapel etc etc. However our eldest (8) has also learnt more about Islam, Hinduism etc etc in the last couple of years than I was probably exposed to in my first 20yrs (being brought up in Yorkshire in the 70s!).
And it's all taught in a celebratory fashion across the board and made fun for the kids (though Diwali led to some clothes washing issues).
If any school wishes to have its mainstay as a religion, then maybe ensuring that *any* and all religion is given positive and regular air time (including atheism and agnosticism) would be the better way to go. And ensure that it is independently monitored and even a standard curriculum/content set (by leaders in the religions to be covered) that is then used.
Religion does have plenty to offer society - too much negative focus on "sky pixies" is given rather than some of the more positive social/community aspects. (I speak as someone who is not devoutly religious, and until I moved rurally couldn't really care either way about religion...but since moving can see the positive side from the angles noted. It would be a shame to lose that).
I guess it’s a ‘good’ thing to have these beheadings for such trivial offences? Keeps the sheeple in check I guess and stops them trying to open their minds away from the religion. I’d imagine they would unleash similar punishment against a fellow believer if they were to do such horrors as drawing a cartoon and thinking outside the box.
Brainwashed since birth.
It’s an interesting concept to me how an adult develops such a mind where they’re not allowed to think outside that box and are seemingly so scared by a mythical story they’ll live by the letter of it. I guess it goes back to the brainwashed child. But then again there’s plenty of converts but I’d imagine that’s a mental issue, bit like the slightly loopy ‘born again Christian types’ who have seemingly had a partial lobotomy when you converse with them.
I do get parts of their religion and I get why the elders scare them in to a certain path (as opposed to drink, drugs & crime) but there’s also something you can live by, it’s called decent morals. This way you don’t have to talk to an imaginary person and there doesn’t have to be the negative aspects like how women are treated.
Brainwashed since birth.
It’s an interesting concept to me how an adult develops such a mind where they’re not allowed to think outside that box and are seemingly so scared by a mythical story they’ll live by the letter of it. I guess it goes back to the brainwashed child. But then again there’s plenty of converts but I’d imagine that’s a mental issue, bit like the slightly loopy ‘born again Christian types’ who have seemingly had a partial lobotomy when you converse with them.
I do get parts of their religion and I get why the elders scare them in to a certain path (as opposed to drink, drugs & crime) but there’s also something you can live by, it’s called decent morals. This way you don’t have to talk to an imaginary person and there doesn’t have to be the negative aspects like how women are treated.
SlimJim16v said:
A priest has been shot in Lyon and is fighting for his life.
Not clear yet in this case if this one’s terrorism, reports are that he was shot with a shotgun with the attacker legging it, so it’s maybe a more personal beef.Not that that helps the poor bugger who was shot of course.
SlimJim16v said:
Yes, it's not been called a terrorist incident, but it's highly unlikely a priest would have enemies.
We’ll see. It could well be terrorism, but the report, to my very non-expert mind, “feels” different. A shotgun then legging without killing the victim seems a bit different to the (sadly) norm.Suspect arrested. A bit more info here as to possible reasons
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/lyon...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/lyon...
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