CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 6)

[Canute]

scrubchub said:

Do you realise that it is now November? And that picture was taken months ago? It has nothing to do with rising cases at the moment. Surely you can't be trying to make that point?

Well it does, if you don't understand it.. stay at home.

[markyb_lcy]

Is this the new Sambucket I wonder. Or the old Sambucket having some fun?

[Canute]

I'm in Sweden.. so say what you want.

But I've seen nothing but selfish, idiotic and plain dumb stuff back in the UK..

[Catz]

Canute said:

scrubchub said:

Do you realise that it is now November? And that picture was taken months ago? It has nothing to do with rising cases at the moment. Surely you can't be trying to make that point?

Well it does, if you don't understand it.. stay at home.

Really? Oh do fk off!

[320d is all you need]

Canute said:

Thanks team!

I believe the "beach-day" didn't cause an uptick in deaths or cases.

Neither did the VE day celebrations

Nor the Black Lives Matter protests.

Maybe someone has a graph

[scrubchub]

Canute said:

Well it does, if you don't understand it.. stay at home.

So what is it then? Is it the packed beaches 4 or 5 months ago or the "silent enemy" that is our children being back at school the last two months? Because you've blamed both in your last few posts.

Actually explain a point you're trying to make this time, instead of making some dismissive comment. You can actually have a conversation on this forum. Even with someone with a different view point.

[markyb_lcy]

Frankly I think this troll has got more attention than they deserve and I would advise not feeding it.

It is after midnight, might turn into a gremlin or something.

[silvagod]

Elysium said:

silvagod said:

This is why people like Isaldiri, quite rightly IMO take issue with you. You state things as fact then revert them to being opinion afterwards when questioned. You are very good at accepting your own point of view but seem to take great exception when people don't follow. Just read back what you typed:

'Discuss the content or don't bother' Is that not telling me NOT to discuss what I consider a relevant fact?.

Get over yourself

You have misunderstood me.

I think you have chosen to disagree with something in the video which is of little relevance to what I believe to be the central point.

If you want to discuss the core content of the video, then that is fine. If you don’t want to so the that is also fine.

That’s all I said.

If you want to talk about the content I would be delighted to do so. I found it really interesting, which is why I posted it.

A measured response, thank you.

[scrubchub]

markyb_lcy said:

Frankly I think this troll has got more attention than they deserve and I would advise not feeding it.

It is after midnight, might turn into a gremlin or something.

Good point, it is clearly time for bed.

[silvagod]

Elysium said:

This video by Sumption is the truth:

https://youtu.be/amDv2gk8aa0

We have veered into authoritarianism. Our freedom is at risk and ‘bad actors’ are trying to profit from the situation. This is not conspiracy. It’s real.

It’s time to take a stand for what we believe in. No apologies. No guilt. We just need to do what is right for ourselves and our loved ones.

We are not alone now. Many people oppose this and we are beginning to organise:

Hang on, is that a statement of fact or an opinion?

[Canute]

scrubchub said:

So what is it then? Is it the packed beaches 4 or 5 months ago or the "silent enemy" that is our children being back at school the last two months? Because you've blamed both in your last few posts.

Actually explain a point you're trying to make this time, instead of making some dismissive comment. You can actually have a conversation on this forum. Even with someone with a different view point.

Thank you.

I actually think it's both sadly, but I think the higher number recently has been amplified by school.

Here in Sweden, the news media painted a fairly glamourous picture, and we took teenagers home for a few months, But in Sept, the transmission is now going up... they are back at school and having fun.

[Canute]

The numbers here are starting to look grim before anyone wonders :-(

[WindyCommon]

My take on this is that our governments real (but undeclared because politically unacceptable...) strategy is to run the spread of infection as fast as they can without exceeding NHS capacity. The decision to go against the SAGE advice a couple of weeks ago was good evidence of this, as is the sudden imposition of tighter restrictions.

I think it’s the right call. We have to increase our collective exposure/resilience as quickly as we can, but without allowing our health system to fail. This means keeping the hospitals as full as we dare. Bluntly, it means running with a level of daily deaths (500-1000?) for an extended period. It looks like we’ve sailed a little close to the wind in recent weeks, and now need to take corrective action.

I would prefer the strategy to be declared overtly, but I understand why that may not be possible. We should always remember to watch the actions not the words.

[Kiribati268]

WindyCommon said:

My take on this is that our governments real (but undeclared because politically unacceptable...) strategy is to run the spread of infection as fast as they can without exceeding NHS capacity. The decision to go against the SAGE advice a couple of weeks ago was good evidence of this, as is the sudden imposition of tighter restrictions.

I think it’s the right call. We have to increase our collective exposure/resilience as quickly as we can, but without allowing our health system to fail. This means keeping the hospitals as full as we dare. Bluntly, it means running with a level of daily deaths (500-1000?) for an extended period. It looks like we’ve sailed a little close to the wind in recent weeks, and now need to take corrective action.

I would prefer the strategy to be declared overtly, but I understand why that may not be possible. We should always remember to watch the actions not the words.

That does seem plausible, but if this was the case then why not open everything up in june and have maximum exposure during summer? Why close the nightingale pop-ups to then re-open them?

I think, and have had for many months, that our government are definitely not that intelligent at all. Doing what you've said is too easy.

[Turfy]

LHRFlightman said:

Deep Thought said:

So thats it then. We're stuffed.

Lockdown until December, Boris "saves Christmas" and we're "allowed" to visit family, virus starts to burn itself out Jan / Feb with maybe another lockdown thrown in for dramatic effect, March, April, May time we start to get the vaccine to NHS staff, the old and high risk, Government pats itself on the back for "saving lives".

Economic ruin ensues....

This is exactly how I see things playing out.

We're ruined.

Go through the latest lockdown so on the 25th Dec 20m+ people can get together in groups of 5/10/20+, travel the length and breadth of the country, and eat, drink and party in 10m separate locations and then all go home

...absolutely no chance at all. There is no Christmas this year. It’s an unrealistic pipe dream!!!

IMHO

[Vanden Saab]

Canute said:

Thanks team!

you're welcome

Our local hospital trust covers 250,000 people, from the 1st to the 25th October there were 16 people admitted to hospital with Covid.

16... 0.006% Our town has a population of 60,000 so from that 4 people have ended up in hospital. Not dead just in hospital. Now explain to me again why we are locking down?

This photo was 10 miles up the road but our beach has been as busy if not busier all summer...
What is also known is that saline mist is very good at preventing people from producing aerosols so the beach could well be the safest place in the country to be during an outbreak of Covid.

[Turfy]

Douglas Quaid said:

RSTurboPaul said:

survivalist said:

Canute said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

The only very small consolation in all this, is that other countries are being equally stupid in their reaction to an illness that has a 99.94% survival rate.

I am clutching at straws I know but I am so p!ssed off right now that I have no real words to say- well I have lots but I couldn’t possibly put them down without getting banned!

Like who and please don't say Sweden?

Any country that doesn’t think that a futile lockdown is the answer.

Anecdotally everyone I know within a 50 mile range of me can work from home and has yet to see a significant personal impact from this.

Only a couple are locking down, the rest of us are stocking up on home drinks in preparation of a home bar scenario.

Only losers will be the local bars, pubs and restaurants we normally meet in.

The second lockdown will be both poorly observed and pointless.

Well, good for you, I'm so fking pleased for you and your friends.

Some of us are unemployed, are down to their last few hundred quid and have a family to support, but are unable to just walk into even poorly-paid employment thanks to the total fk-up that is in progress.

But you crack on.

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Saturday 31st October 22:34

I don’t think he was gloating, I think he was just saying, the lockdown is pointless, won’t work and the only thing it will achieve is screwing up the bars, restaurants etc.

Sorry to hear you’re struggling, this is the crappy thing about this bullst, the politicians have got no money worries whatsoever so can do what they like and have no idea and no concerns about the businesses they’re closing and the people they’re putting out of work. Boris is a millionaire. I doubt he has ever known what it’s like to have a few hundred quid left and no idea where the next money is going to come from. I hope you get some work doing something soon.

The politicians and VIP’s are smashing it. Literally billions going offshore in PPE Procurement.

Not reading for the easily angered :angry:

https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/132077784...

https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/132243180...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/compan...

https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/132250156...

[pneumothorax]

Morning all. Difficult to work out how we have got back here again. There is a really serious disconnect between what I am seeing in this situation in the community and what we are being told by HMG. I was covering a supposed "hotspot" in West London today (Ealing) and so girded my loins for an "exponential" rise in people asking to speak to someone about their COVID symptoms, but the triage pool was quiet and mainly populated by Patients attempting to get prescriptions for anti-pyschotics. Something is not right....

I did see my first real life COVID + and ill Patient though (since Easter) and it IS back in the care homes. I sat with his carer in the clinical room whilst writing up his palliative meds and asked her about her experience of March, I have met her previously, really pragmatic and looks like nothing would faze her, hardened by years working in the sector, she then broke down in a spectacular fashion and explained what she had seen, these people have been traumatized by what they have witnessed.

Also, the summer and the time we had to prepare has not changed things much with regard how these palliative + Patients are being managed with regard nosocomial infection risk save for the carers are not wearing sunglasses. You cannot safely nurse a dying Patient with COVID safely in these places.

[isaldiri]

WindyCommon said:

My take on this is that our governments real (but undeclared because politically unacceptable...) strategy is to run the spread of infection as fast as they can without exceeding NHS capacity. The decision to go against the SAGE advice a couple of weeks ago was good evidence of this, as is the sudden imposition of tighter restrictions.

I think it’s the right call. We have to increase our collective exposure/resilience as quickly as we can, but without allowing our health system to fail. This means keeping the hospitals as full as we dare. Bluntly, it means running with a level of daily deaths (500-1000?) for an extended period. It looks like we’ve sailed a little close to the wind in recent weeks, and now need to take corrective action.

I would prefer the strategy to be declared overtly, but I understand why that may not be possible. We should always remember to watch the actions not the words.

I always wonder how one can see the same things and come to completely the opposite opinion. I absolutely disagree that the govt's actual but undeclared aim is to spread the infection as much as possible without exceeding NHS capacity. I'd love that to be true but frankly everything about what they have done in May suggest that there is no chance in hell they have the wit for something like that.

Just look at the constant handwringing about cases, long covid, no herd immunity, 'we must defeat the deadly disease' claptrap coming from... well just about everyone in cabinet. And especially how long it dragged on from releasing the original lockdown fully to open up non essential retail/restaurants.

What they want is for cases to continue falling (look how marvellous we are at saving you from the deadly disease!) without taking the necessary measures to really bring them down and getting blamed for the economic damage or really authoritarian measures that would be required. It's precisely the actions they have been taking that leads one to concludes the words they have been saying are exactly that - suppression to the greatest extent (but don't blame us for any economic damage as much as possible) and blindly hoping for a magic bullet vaccine.

[isaldiri]

pneumothorax said:

Morning all. Difficult to work out how we have got back here again. There is a really serious disconnect between what I am seeing in this situation in the community and what we are being told by HMG. I was covering a supposed "hotspot" in West London today (Ealing) and so girded my loins for an "exponential" rise in people asking to speak to someone about their COVID symptoms, but the triage pool was quiet and mainly populated by Patients attempting to get prescriptions for anti-pyschotics. Something is not right....

I did see my first real life COVID + and ill Patient though (since Easter) and it IS back in the care homes. I sat with his carer in the clinical room whilst writing up his palliative meds and asked her about her experience of March, I have met her previously, really pragmatic and looks like nothing would faze her, hardened by years working in the sector, she then broke down in a spectacular fashion and explained what she had seen, these people have been traumatized by what they have witnessed.

Also, the summer and the time we had to prepare has not changed things much with regard how these palliative + Patients are being managed with regard nosocomial infection risk save for the carers are not wearing sunglasses. You cannot safely nurse a dying Patient with COVID safely in these places.

Has the health/emergency service returned to 'normal' function by the way? so even given the recent bout of idiocy, one would truly hope that there is not going to be a repeat of what you found in late March/April with the emergency services refusing as much as possible to come round to take 'standard' cases to hospital for treatment.