CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 6)

[Catz]

johnboy1975 said:

Is there more love for Nicola Sturgeon on here tonight? Sticking to her regional approach....

Bets are NS will, tonight, be plotting how she’ll outdo BJ next week.

[RSTurboPaul]

The GOV.UK webpage with the information on, legislation to follow:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restricti...

(Thanks to agtlaw for posting it in the 'rule of six' thread.)

[2gins]

Jim on the hill said:

irc said:

Some perspective.



Graph is BBC via Lockdown Sceptics.

Not so long ago 50 or 60k respiratory deaths was normal.

So you are comparing an annual flu rate against a 7 month covid rate and ignoring the progress of modern medicine.

That is a worrying graph to any remotely educated person.

That's one side of the coin, the other side is it's showing that we accepted that sort of mortality from an endemic respiratory illness in recent memory so it seems bizarre to now act as if it's unacceptable, especially when the associated harms with trying to mitigate it are taken into account.

It also nicely demonstrates the fallacy of the vaccine approach for those that think it's a magic bullet that will make covid go away.

[ORD]

johnboy1975 said:

To be fair, i think he said he's lost about 24 pound

Agree with the general point though

Only another 40 to lose then, the fat idiot.

[MDMetal]

ORD said:

johnboy1975 said:

To be fair, i think he said he's lost about 24 pound

Agree with the general point though

Only another 40 to lose then, the fat idiot.

He can be as far as he wants his weight is his problem not mine I couldn't give a toss if he was the least healthy person in the country. What it shows is scant regard for understanding two very closely entwined issues and if he can't spot that b follows a the fact were all pointing out where m and n come is pointless. They literally cannot see the great harm they cause.

[Elysium]

silvagod said:

i4got said:

silvagod said:

Elysium said:

silvagod said:

Elysium said:

This is well worth a watch. The presenter is a pathologist and the central part covers some of the odd issues with the data. In particular the lack of excess deaths associated with this second wave compared to the first:

https://youtu.be/380DLg-nAqI

Straight away, there's an omissiom. What if you want quality food and are prepared to wait? Not everything is a triangle!

Also, as you said...'No thought for anyone else. Just a desire to be right and make others as miserable as they are'. So she is wonderful and everyone else is pants?

She was making an analogy. In this case it is a triangle.

And I said nothing about her being wonderful. The content however is very interesting.

Analogy that missed a pertinent piece of information to simplify it.

Are you serious - you know she didn't come up with the Speed/Cost/Quality triangle ?. That's a standard project management model thats been around for probably 50 years or more.

The fact that project management have used it for 50 years does not make it any better. Put crap in, get crap out

You picked a weird point to argue. It’s a good video, but you seem to have got bogged down in the most basic and least interesting bit.

Watch it and discuss the content or don’t bother.

[Deep Thought]

So thats it then. We're stuffed.

Lockdown until December, Boris "saves Christmas" and we're "allowed" to visit family, virus starts to burn itself out Jan / Feb with maybe another lockdown thrown in for dramatic effect, March, April, May time we start to get the vaccine to NHS staff, the old and high risk, Government pats itself on the back for "saving lives".

Economic ruin ensues....

[dave_s13]

MDMetal said:

Funny username said:

Why close gyms? they should be subsidised!

Yup I hate gyms but I've yet to meet anyone whose health has improved through this gigantic c*ck up. The more people loose what little exercise they got commuting or whatever, gyms etc the more unhealthy and susceptible they'll be to the virus and all the usual things. Don't worry though Boris telling us all he's a bit fat will fix all that right?

Can't believe they have shut gyms again.

I kept paying my membership (£65/month) all over the time they were shut as I wanted a gym to go back to. Then when they opened I found my new WFH routine meant I couldn't get in as much. I was all set to cancel this month bit reversed the decision a few days ago.....now they've closed them again.

Utter wkers..... WFH, no healthy routine, loss of motivation... is all adding up to me getting out of shape and making me more at risk of dying from the bat plague....FFS.

[LHRFlightman]

Deep Thought said:

So thats it then. We're stuffed.

Lockdown until December, Boris "saves Christmas" and we're "allowed" to visit family, virus starts to burn itself out Jan / Feb with maybe another lockdown thrown in for dramatic effect, March, April, May time we start to get the vaccine to NHS staff, the old and high risk, Government pats itself on the back for "saving lives".

Economic ruin ensues....

This is exactly how I see things playing out.

We're ruined.

[irc]

2gins said:

Jim on the hill said:

irc said:

Some perspective.



Graph is BBC via Lockdown Sceptics.

Not so long ago 50 or 60k respiratory deaths was normal.

So you are comparing an annual flu rate against a 7 month covid rate and ignoring the progress of modern medicine.

That is a worrying graph to any remotely educated person.

That's one side of the coin, the other side is it's showing that we accepted that sort of mortality from an endemic respiratory illness in recent memory so it seems bizarre to now act as if it's unacceptable, especially when the associated harms with trying to mitigate it are taken into account.

It also nicely demonstrates the fallacy of the vaccine approach for those that think it's a magic bullet that will make covid go away.

And if the graph isn't corrected for population increase you can add another quarter to those 1990s figures.

[Ntv]

NHS is a toxic, incompetent shambles

fk THE NHS

Slow ironic pan clap this Thursday

[irc]

Catz said:

johnboy1975 said:

Is there more love for Nicola Sturgeon on here tonight? Sticking to her regional approach....

Bets are NS will, tonight, be plotting how she’ll outdo BJ next week.

She is advising against travel to England. If we were independent she would close the border.

[whitesocks]

Ntv said:

NHS is a toxic, incompetent shambles

fk THE NHS

Slow ironic pan clap this Thursday

[Boringvolvodriver]

Ntv said:

NHS is a toxic, incompetent shambles

fk THE NHS

Slow ironic pan clap this Thursday

Yup - I’m in for that. Frontline staff may be exempt from criticism but the management are sh!t

[ClaphamGT3]

Yup - and Angry Karen and all the other work-shy, benefits gouging oxygen thieves will still moan we didn't do enough because their obese, 60 a day for forty years 80 year-old nan still bought the farm. It'll all be about Tory cuts and nothing to do with 80 years of fk-witted life choices

[RSTurboPaul]

RSTurboPaul said:

The GOV.UK webpage with the information on, legislation to follow:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restricti...

(Thanks to agtlaw for posting it in the 'rule of six' thread.)

With apologies for quoting myself, and cross-posting on the 'rule of six' thread, some snippets from that GOV.UK webpage, with added emphases:

GOV.uk said:

1. Stay at home

This means you must not leave or be outside of your home except for specific purposes. These include:

- for childcare or education, where this is not provided online

- for work purposes, where your place of work remains open and where you cannot work from home (including if your job involves working in other people’s homes)

- to exercise outdoors or visit an outdoor public place - with the people you live with, with your support bubble or, when on your own, with 1 person from another household.

- for any medical concerns, reasons, appointments and emergencies, or to avoid or escape risk of injury or harm - such as domestic abuse

- shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which should be as infrequent as possible
to visit members of your support bubble or provide care for vulnerable people, or as a volunteer

This list is not exhaustive and there are other limited circumstances where you may be permitted to leave or be outside of your home. These will be set out in law and further detailed guidance will be provided.

So the (non-exhaustive) list is now the (exhaustive) list and no other 'reasonable excuse' is going to be permitted?

GOV.uk said:

3. Meeting with family and friends

You must not meet socially indoors with family or friends unless they are part of your household - meaning the people you live with - or support bubble.

A support bubble is where a household with one adult joins with another household. Households in that support bubble can still visit each other, stay overnight, and visit outdoor public places together.

You can exercise or visit outdoor public places with the people you live with, your support bubble, or 1 person from another household.

So groups larger than 2 are likely to be targeted for enforcement, and there's no having your partner come round.

GOV.uk said:

5. Weddings, civil partnerships, religious services and funerals

Funerals can be attended by a maximum of 30 people, and it is advised that only close friends and family attend. Linked ceremonial events such as stone settings and ash scatterings can also continue with up to 15 people in attendance. Anyone working is not included. Social distancing should be maintained between people who do not live together or share a support bubble.

Weddings, civil partnership ceremonies will not be permitted to take place except in exceptional circumstances.

Weddings cancelled.

GOV.uk said:

7. Going to school, college and university

The Government will continue to prioritise the wellbeing and long-term futures of our young people...

If you say so.

GOV.uk said:

7. Going to school, college and university
...
The Prime Minister and Education Secretary have been clear that exams will go ahead next summer, as they are the fairest and most accurate way to measure a pupil’s attainment. We therefore need to keep schools and colleges open so that children are able to keep progressing towards exams and the next stage of education or employment. Students now have more time to prepare for their exams next year, as most AS, A levels and GCSEs will be held 3 weeks later to help address the disruption caused by the pandemic.

...

If you live at university, you must not move back and forward between your permanent home and student home during term time. You should only return home at the end of term for Christmas. We will publish further guidance on the end of term.

Disruption caused by the Pandemic?

Students at Uni to be trapped there until Christmas. (Although 'should' not 'must', so not legally compelled, it seems.)

GOV.uk said:

11. Travel

You should avoid all non-essential travel by private or public transport.

Essential travel includes, but is not limited to

essential shopping
travelling to work where your workplace is open or you cannot work from home
travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
hospital GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health.

...

Overnight stays and holidays away from primary residences will not be allowed- including holidays in the UK and abroad. This includes staying in a second home, if you own one, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with. There are specific exceptions, for example if you need to stay away from home (including in a second home) for work purposes.

Now illegal to travel abroad or stay away from home unless for Work or another 'specific exemption'.

[Deep Thought]

Ntv said:

NHS is a toxic, incompetent shambles

fk THE NHS

Slow ironic pan clap this Thursday

Agreed. The government should be hanging its head in shame it has come to this AGAIN.

Six months prep time WASTED.

They predicted the second wave, they told us there would be a second wave, and six months later we still have an NHS service incapable of handling any sort of a blip in numbers.

Had hundreds of billions been instead been spent on bolstering the NHS, maybe we wouldnt be in this shameful shambles.

[Boringvolvodriver]

The only very small consolation in all this, is that other countries are being equally stupid in their reaction to an illness that has a 99.94% survival rate.

I am clutching at straws I know but I am so p!ssed off right now that I have no real words to say- well I have lots but I couldn’t possibly put them down without getting banned!

[MDMetal]

Deep Thought said:

So thats it then. We're stuffed.

Lockdown until December, Boris "saves Christmas" and we're "allowed" to visit family, virus starts to burn itself out Jan / Feb with maybe another lockdown thrown in for dramatic effect, March, April, May time we start to get the vaccine to NHS staff, the old and high risk, Government pats itself on the back for "saving lives".

Economic ruin ensues....

At this point I'd build a time machine and vote for Jeremy f*cking Corbyn.....

[whitesocks]

Boringvolvodriver said:

The only very small consolation in all this, is that other countries are being equally stupid in their reaction to an illness that has a 99.94% survival rate.

I am clutching at straws I know but I am so p!ssed off right now that I have no real words to say- well I have lots but I couldn’t possibly put them down without getting banned!

I'm wondering how countries like N Korea are getting on.