46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

[jeff m]

unrepentant said:

So........... when Biden took over on Jan 20th and found there was literally no plan to distribute vaccines (there was no transition because Trump wouldn't allow one) people should have miraculously stopped dying? I can see that you're yet another troll who knows absolutely nothing about the US but feels free to pontificate from the UK regardless. Unfortunately these threads on this site attract a level of onanism personified by you.

"literally no plan" What's that cheerleader speak ? Why literally?

FYI Vaccinations started in New Jersey Mid December 2020, it should have been earlier, and would have been if some peon hadn't forgotten to ask for vaccine. frm the Fed Agy. I believe other states started before us.

With regard to SNAFUs and COVID most were made at State levels, not by Trump or Biden.

[HM-2]

jeff m said:

"literally no plan" What's that cheerleader speak ? Why literally?

He's correct. There was no Federal plan for distribution, delivery or management of the vaccination programme when Biden assumed office. Up until that point it was effectively left for the states to manage on their own.

[unrepentant]

jeff m said:

unrepentant said:

So........... when Biden took over on Jan 20th and found there was literally no plan to distribute vaccines (there was no transition because Trump wouldn't allow one) people should have miraculously stopped dying? I can see that you're yet another troll who knows absolutely nothing about the US but feels free to pontificate from the UK regardless. Unfortunately these threads on this site attract a level of onanism personified by you.

"literally no plan" What's that cheerleader speak ? Why literally?

There was literally no federal distribution plan. None whatsoever.

[anonymous-user]

unrepentant said:

jeff m said:

unrepentant said:

So........... when Biden took over on Jan 20th and found there was literally no plan to distribute vaccines (there was no transition because Trump wouldn't allow one) people should have miraculously stopped dying? I can see that you're yet another troll who knows absolutely nothing about the US but feels free to pontificate from the UK regardless. Unfortunately these threads on this site attract a level of onanism personified by you.

"literally no plan" What's that cheerleader speak ? Why literally?

There was literally no federal distribution plan. None whatsoever.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/what-we-know-about-u-s-covid-19-vaccine-distribution-plan.html

[jeff m]

digimeistter said:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/what-we-kn...

The Intelligencer is a liberal rag and will print anything it's told to

How about the A.P. and the CDC
CDC tells states: Be ready to distribute vaccines on Nov. 1https://apnews.com › article
Sep 2, 2020 — PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — The federal government has told states to prepare for ... said states “in the near future” will receive permit applications from ... from becoming fully operational by November 1, 2020,” Redfield wrote.

I repeat, we were vaccinating people in December...just check the facts, it's not that difficult.

[HM-2]

jeff m said:

I repeat, we were vaccinating people in December...just check the facts, it's not that difficult.

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise. That's not what's being discussed here.

[unrepentant]

HM-2 said:

jeff m said:

I repeat, we were vaccinating people in December...just check the facts, it's not that difficult.

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise. That's not what's being discussed here.

Jeff doesn’t understand the concept of a federal rollout.

[HM-2]

unrepentant said:

HM-2 said:

jeff m said:

I repeat, we were vaccinating people in December...just check the facts, it's not that difficult.

I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise. That's not what's being discussed here.

Jeff doesn’t understand the concept of a federal rollout.

Jeff doesn't actually appear to understand the basic point that's being made.
That or he's intentionally misrepresenting people, for reasons.

[PHUSER1]

unrepentant said:

So........... when Biden took over on Jan 20th and found there was literally no plan to distribute vaccines......

This statement appears to be the point that Jeff, and most fair-minded people who see this kind of statement, would challenge.

Further to digimeisster's post that explained the vaccine planning and implementation......

When Ron Klain or Joe Biden said what you wrote organisations like Politifact and the BBC suggested that kind of statement was largely incorrect.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/27/...

There was a plan but that plan involved the logistical side largely being handed over to states.
Not the best effort, it seems, but not 'literally no plan'.

But, unrepentant (and kind of HM-2 trying to tell everyone what unrepentant and Jeff meant), your further posts sought to clarify that, even though you wrote it, you didn't actually mean 'literally no plan'
If there's any misrepresentation it wasn't Jeff.

[HM-2]

PHUSER1 said:

But, unrepentant (and kind of HM-2 trying to tell everyone what unrepentant and Jeff meant), your further posts sought to clarify that, even though you wrote it, you didn't actually mean 'literally no plan'

The quote you've highlighted refers specifically to distribution plan- it's within the text you cite. I don't think anyone said "no plan at all existed", just that no Federal distribution plan existed, which is a fair summary.

That's not, as the poster above seems to suggest, the same thing as saying "no vaccines were delivered or given during the Trump administration" which is the utterly absurd misrepresentation of the first statement that I was actually contesting.

[PHUSER1]

HM-2 said:

PHUSER1 said:

But, unrepentant (and kind of HM-2 trying to tell everyone what unrepentant and Jeff meant), your further posts sought to clarify that, even though you wrote it, you didn't actually mean 'literally no plan'

The quote you've highlighted refers specifically to distribution plan- it's within the text you cite. I don't think anyone said "no plan at all existed", just that no Federal distribution plan existed, which is a fair summary.

That's not, as the poster above seems to suggest, the same thing as saying "no vaccines were delivered or given during the Trump administration" which is the utterly absurd misrepresentation of the first statement that I was actually contesting.

Keep telling yourself that if you like.

What Jeff was saying isn't what it 'seems' it was to you anyway. I don't know why you're insinuating anything about Jeff misrepresenting anyone.
Unrepentant's statement is ambiguous at best and echoes that (debunked) statement from the Biden administration that they found no plan, and you can guess the intent of such a statement.
What they found was a plan from the federal government of how the vaccine was to be produced and how it would be distributed. That plan involved the states playing a primary role in the distribution of the vaccine within their own states. A plan that was having effect, that was leading to the vaccinations taking place last year which Jeff made example of.

What the Biden admin did was to improve or change the plan and have the federal government pull its finger out to put more resources into the logistical side of the distribution process instead of delegating that so much to the individual states. That being said the balance of power and resources over there does give states more clout and devolved power than, say, our county councils, so it wasn't an alien concept to devolve and delegate responsibility to the states.in the first place. But that was by design, by decision, not by oversight.

We do this here, with local health authorities and individual surgeries taking part as well as NHS HQ, the government and the vaccine manufacturers.
It's not just the government saying this is the plan and we'll handle it all. It's collaborative and there's a hierarchy and allocation of responsibility.
There's even some crossover and duplication of work occuring, for example the local surgeries sending out invitations to book a vaccination appointment through their system and then the NHS doing the same through their system a couple of days later!

[HM-2]

PHUSER1 said:

What Jeff was saying isn't what it 'seems' it was to you anyway. I don't know why you're insinuating anything about Jeff misrepresenting anyone.

Well, becasue of this:

jeff m said:

I repeat, we were vaccinating people in December...just check the facts, it's not that difficult.

Whether or not people were being vaccinated in December is irrelevant to the question of whether or not a federal distribution plan existed. Nobody said or suggested people weren't being vaccinated in December, so pointing out that this is "fact" serves no actual purpose in the discussion...other than inferring other people suggested otherwise (which they didn't).

PHUSER1 said:

Unrepentant's statement is ambiguous at best

unrepentant said:

when Biden took over on Jan 20th and found there was literally no plan to distribute vaccines (there was no transition because Trump wouldn't allow one)

I don't think it's especially ambiguous (as by referencing Biden and Trump specifically he's stipulating Federal/Executive planning rather than planning at a state level), but I do understand how someone would see it as such.

[PHUSER1]

You'll argue black is white until the cows come home HM!
I don't wish to enable you to drag this out any further.

[unrepentant]

PHUSER1 said:

Drivel.

Yet another banned ex troll returns to PH to contaminate these threads. Genuinely inciteful and useful posters like Byker are banned from the thread but we are subjected to a constant stream of these people. So tedious.

[PHUSER1]

The next challenge for Biden is to improve the world opinion of the USA.

It seems a worldwide poll suggests the US is viewed as a greater threat to democracy than China or Russia.

The article suggests this may be compounded by Trump's America First policy and that big tech is seen as a major threat.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-seen-as-bi...

[HM-2]

PHUSER1 said:

The next challenge for Biden is to improve the world opinion of the USA.

It seems a worldwide poll suggests the US is viewed as a greater threat to democracy than China or Russia.

The article suggests this may be compounded by Trump's America First policy and that big tech is seen as a major threat.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-seen-as-bi...

Whilst the figures there are definitely concerning for US perceptions on the global stage, it feels like something may have got lost in translation with that report. 71% of Chinese people surveyed viewing China as "democratic" despite it objectively being anything but (and the Chinese government even making a point of acknowledging they're not democratic) is pretty puzzling.

[PHUSER1]

China is just one of the nations where the survey was carried out.
It's really no surprise that Chinese people answered as such about their own country what with the grip their government has on information and culture.

Contrast that with Russia, where the people in the survey don't think their own system is very democratic.

The question, that is relevant to this thread, is what people from many places around the word think about the US and the other global competitors.

[5 In a Row]

PHUSER1 said:

The question, that is relevant to this thread, is what people from many places around the word think about the US and the other global competitors.

If it helps then my opinion of the US is significantly diminished compared with where it was in, say, early 2016.

That's entirely down to DJ Trump, the people he surrounded himself with - you can't say that Rudi's garden centre press conference was an impressive piece of statesmanship - and the blatant questionable activities they engaged in.
Whether that be false claims of election fraud or lining the pockets of cronies.
I acknowledge the latter goes on everywhere (it's pretty obvious it's been happening here in the UK) but its the sheer openness.

Really, at the moment, the US is a bit like a comedy show and the only hope I can see for them is that some adults making sensible, unexciting decisions will pull them back from a series concluding descent into total farce, having got about 95% of the way there towards the end of last year.

Then the UK can return to our previous activity of looking at the seat of power in London and stressing that it doesn't represent our particular corner while we wonder which region will want to break away next (my money's on the South West of England).

HTH

Edited by 5 In a Row on Thursday 6th May 15:36

[HM-2]

PHUSER1 said:

It's really no surprise that Chinese people answered as such about their own country what with the grip their government has on information and culture.

I don't think you've quite grasped my point here. Chinese citizens having positive views of their government isn't surprising. Chinese citizens referring to their political system as "democratic" is.

PHUSER1 said:

The question, that is relevant to this thread, is what people from many places around the word think about the US and the other global competitors.

I don't think it's especially surprising. US interference in the affairs of foreign states has always been rather brazen and overt, which understandably results in negative perceptions. Where the likes of China and Russia have imperialist tendencies, these typically manifest themselves in more covert ways.

[PHUSER1]

Will Biden successfully navigate those in his administration with pharma interests (listed here) to allow a waiver on U.S patents with respect to the Covid vaccines?

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/05/vaccine-waiver-bide...

With opposing viewpoints from other world leaders, and with the WTO proposing a 'third way' maybe he won't have to follow it through anyway.........