Taking the knee

[Blue One]

Not sure if this has been covered in another thread, but seeing the ‘outrage’ at Millwall fans booing the ‘taking of the knee’ at yesterday’s match shouldn’t have been a surprise. Since March the politically correct lobby has had the unique benefit of not having to worry about actual fans, or take their viewpoint into account around this political homage each match to BLM - a widely discredited extreme political movement, not an anti-racism lobby group.

The fact that sport has chosen to embrace such as overtly political organisation as a vehicle for anti-racism efforts is regrettable, but hopefully a ‘reset’ is now underway. I’m sure though that the PC lobby will shout and squeal and not give up its newly acquired power over UK football easily.

One to watch.

[greygoose]

sim72 said:

As posted on the football thread.

[anonymous-user]

Millwall perhaps isn't the best vehicle to use as an example of how we should treat racism (nor is BLM, to be fair).

[BigMon]

This has been covered many, many times before on here but I suspect there's no point trying to explain to you the difference between a political movement and a principle.

Still, as long as they know their place. PC gone mad, lefties, lefties, lefties, etc, etc.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

These threads are pointless. They always turn into a 'you are racist if you don't agree' crusade.

[Blue One]

It’s interesting to see from some of the replies on here that people are either intellectually unable, or unwilling, to separate anti-racism from a fairly loathsome Marxist movement and that the FA/clubs embracing this movement’s symbol at the beginning of each match was ill-advised and damaging to the objectivity and independence of the game.

Also, no-one has said that the Millwall fans aren’t racist, just the observation that fans not liking this overt political gesture are been ignored up to now because Lockdown conveniently allowed those behind it the impunity to enforce it.

Many different factors here, all separate, all linked, but all different.

[230TE]

I think there is a specific problem with the "taking the knee" gesture. It is a reference to American football, a player "takes the knee" to stop play if another player is injured, so most Americans will get it straight away. Over here we kneel in obedience or deference. We kneel before the Queen. So what does "taking the knee" signify to your average football-loving Brit - grovelling to BLM activists? Kneeling in obeisance to black people generally? You don't have to be a paid-up neo-Nazi to see how this particular gesture might be misinterpreted. BLM would benefit from finding a more internationally understood gesture of solidarity IMHO. The one they are using at the moment is just making things worse.

[XCP]

It's Millwall. What did they expect? Rational debate?

[bitchstewie]

I thought the FA were supporting the message rather than the organisation?

A STATEMENT ON THE BLACK LIVES MATTER CAMPAIGN IN FOOTBALL

Also it's Milwall who for as long as I can remember have had a reputation for racism from their supporters.

Don't worry 230TE it's not The Guardian you can click it

[tangerine_sedge]

Blue One said:

Not sure if this has been covered in another thread, but seeing the ‘outrage’ at Millwall fans booing the ‘taking of the knee’ at yesterday’s match shouldn’t have been a surprise. Since March the politically correct lobby has had the unique benefit of not having to worry about actual fans, or take their viewpoint into account around this political homage each match to BLM - a widely discredited extreme political movement, not an anti-racism lobby group.

The fact that sport has chosen to embrace such as overtly political organisation as a vehicle for anti-racism efforts is regrettable, but hopefully a ‘reset’ is now underway. I’m sure though that the PC lobby will shout and squeal and not give up its newly acquired power over UK football easily.

One to watch.

The very fact that Milwall fans booed BLM is the very reason why BLM continues to be important.

When the Milwall fans do it again, and they will because like most other clubs they have a sizeable minority of thick racists who have become emboldened by other thick racists on social media, then I'd like to see the club docked points.

This may not change their thinking, but will at least make it clear to them that their vile racist viewpoints are not acceptable.

[hepy]

XCP said:

It's Millwall. What did they expect? Rational debate?

Up to their old tricks....again.

[230TE]

bhstewie said:

I thought the FA were supporting the message rather than the organisation?

A STATEMENT ON THE BLACK LIVES MATTER CAMPAIGN IN FOOTBALL

Also it's Milwall who for as long as I can remember have had a reputation for racism from their supporters.

Don't worry 230TE it's not The Guardian you can click it

The problem is that the message has been appropriated by a bunch of would-be Marxist revolutionaries who have hopelessly toxified the entire BLM "brand". There is a long-standing problem with racism in football, black players being abused by fans, and I think the FA are right to take a strong line. But how many people will read the FA's statement, think about it and understand the distinction between message and organisation? A minute's silence for victims of racist violence would be more powerful IMO than "taking the knee". Standing in silence is how we show respect in this country, and people who interrupt that silence tend to be seen as utter knobs.

[jimothyc]

When Kapernick was taking the knee, it was an act of defiance and protest. Nowadays taking the knee has become more of an act of compliance. It’s ubiquity and the social pressure applied to people to encourage them to partake has caused it to lose its original meaning.

It’s become an empty gesture is much the same way as clapping for the NHS did some months ago.

[Blue One]

So FIFA doesn’t allow poppies to be worn by UK teams, but an overt political gesture at the beginning of each match is allowed.

You get the point here? Tolerance of certain things, intolerance for others. Not a level playing field (no pun intended) at the moment on what is officially enforced and what is frowned upon by our increasingly Woke/PC establishments across government and sport.

You could also cite the generally perceived inbalance in the policing responses in the UK to BLM protests earlier in the year and anti-Lockdown protests.

There is a widely held view (that I subscribe to) that the vacuum created by lockdowns has allowed an unhealthy environment to exist for the advancement of agenda politics and a corrosion of objectivity in society generally.

The football taking of the knee being just one example and the reaction to it yesterday a recoil that was always going to happen. Where the the new medium will be remains to be seen.

Edited by Blue One on Sunday 6th December 10:18

[bitchstewie]

230TE said:

The problem is that the message has been appropriated by a bunch of would-be Marxist revolutionaries who have hopelessly toxified the entire BLM "brand". There is a long-standing problem with racism in football, black players being abused by fans, and I think the FA are right to take a strong line. But how many people will read the FA's statement, think about it and understand the distinction between message and organisation? A minute's silence for victims of racist violence would be more powerful IMO than "taking the knee". Standing in silence is how we show respect in this country, and people who interrupt that silence tend to be seen as utter knobs.

Agreed that the BLM organisation taking a political turn hasn't helped.

That doesn't excuse for the disgraceful antics of those Millwall fans when it comes to supporting a message.

If people don't do their homework who's fault is that? It took me 20 seconds to find that FA statement.

If I'm being kind the fans at that match who are booing are unaware that the support is for a message rather than an organisation or if I'm being unkind they're racists and would probably boo during a minutes silence.

There will always be something because that's what's inside them.

[Fittster]

I do wonder if Millwall supporters and other racists could provide a critique Marxism.

[voyds9]

So the news articles struggle to mention Arsenal and West Ham fans doing the same

Another news narrative, it's those racist Millwall fans. Shame everybody else to towing the line.

[bitchstewie]

As a small aside they're talking about this on Sky Sports now (wider issue with Anton Ferdinand).

[Randy Winkman]

Fittster said:

I do wonder if Millwall supporters and other racists could provide a critique Marxism.

Exactly. I don't think they were booing Marxism.

On the other hand, I do think it was convenient for the FA the way that CV19 matched with the BLM thing in relation to football. It means there have been months of "taking the knee" before the inevitable booing started. It wont work at all with fans in the grounds. But then again I think they should have stopped it at the beginning of this season. It's just a gesture now.

[230TE]

bhstewie said:

Agreed that the BLM organisation taking a political turn hasn't helped.

That doesn't excuse for the disgraceful antics of those Millwall fans when it comes to supporting a message.

If people don't do their homework who's fault is that? It took me 20 seconds to find that FA statement.

If I'm being kind the fans at that match who are booing are unaware that the support is for a message rather than an organisation or if I'm being unkind they're racists and would probably boo during a minutes silence.

There will always be something because that's what's inside them.

I largely agree with that, but it makes the condemnation of racism a lot easier if the message isn't tangled up with a load of extremist political crap from a group that always seems to innocently and peacefully end up throwing Molotov cocktails at the police and looting Nike stores. BLM (the movement) are a bunch of utter throbbers who do not deserve even 5% of the attention they are getting from politicians, slebs, business leaders and other grown-ups who should know better. Marcus Rashford, we have a job for you.