Taking the knee

[bad company]

Good piece by John Humphries in today’s newspaper (that’s if the Daily Wail is classed as one.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677997/I...

[bitchstewie]

bad company said:

Good piece by John Humphries in today’s newspaper (that’s if the Daily Wail is classed as one.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677997/I...

I like John Humphies but I think he's wrong on this.

Does he honestly think that Rashford or Sterling who've been given honours for their work for vulnerable children and work against racism are marxists who want to defund the Police and bring down capitalism?

Seriously?

[Randy Winkman]

bhstewie said:

bad company said:

Good piece by John Humphries in today’s newspaper (that’s if the Daily Wail is classed as one.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677997/I...

I like John Humphies but I think he's wrong on this.

Does he honestly think that Rashford or Sterling who've been given honours for their work for vulnerable children and work against racism are marxists who want to defund the Police and bring down capitalism?

Seriously?

"They want to be judged by their deeds and not their words." So they are going to boo their own players to prove they are not racist?

[bad company]

Randy Winkman said:

bhstewie said:

bad company said:

Good piece by John Humphries in today’s newspaper (that’s if the Daily Wail is classed as one.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9677997/I...

I like John Humphies but I think he's wrong on this.

Does he honestly think that Rashford or Sterling who've been given honours for their work for vulnerable children and work against racism are marxists who want to defund the Police and bring down capitalism?

Seriously?

"They want to be judged by their deeds and not their words." So they are going to boo their own players to prove they are not racist?

I’m with John Humphries here. I’d stand and neither applaud nor boo.

[stongle]

bhstewie said:

I like John Humphies but I think he's wrong on this.

Does he honestly think that Rashford or Sterling who've been given honours for their work for vulnerable children and work against racism are marxists who want to defund the Police and bring down capitalism?

Seriously?

You didn't read the article did you?

People are growing increasingly sick of being told how to think or treated like idiots. Few people are racist, sexist, anti-non binary. They treat people as people whatever colour, sexuality or mostly class. Having to consume viture signalling is boring and distracting.

Everyone knows racism etc exists, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. There are better ways to support inclusion than taking a symbol that isn't relevant in the UK.

The JH article is a bit weak IMHO. BLM really isn't a Marxist movement. Sure some of the fringe are, and arguably anything that is a protest movement IS at risk of fringe shouting. BUT, that shouty Marxist crap isn't representative of those supporting it. They just want a fair crack at life. And that's colour neutral. It would gain more credence IF Rashford and Co said its about economic inclusion (but that won't sit well with the metros who have rinsed every advantage the country had).

The debate has gone to the polar opposites; but has lost its real meaning. You and a few posters who think it's them and us, are missing the point.

You can be anti racist without taking the knee. You know that right? That's where the majority are. Take the knee for the right reasons, or with skin in the game. And it seems you and many really don't understand why.

[Fordy Bob]

Take the knee,don’t take the knee,all a bit petty when you see what’s just happened in the Denmark v Finland game.

[Evanivitch]

Drezza said:

Evanivitch said:

Do you also confuse conservative politics and Conservative party?

No? Similarly I wouldn't use a Swastika as a logo for a charity due to the negative connotations it has.

Should Hindus and Buddhists abandon the swastika because of more recent history?

[Evanivitch]

blackrabbit said:

Even Sven Goran Erikson thinks taking the knee is supporting BLM :

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-08/taking-the-kne...

The BLM movement and BLM political groups not being the same thing.

[Vanden Saab]

Evanivitch said:

blackrabbit said:

Even Sven Goran Erikson thinks taking the knee is supporting BLM :

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-08/taking-the-kne...

The BLM movement and BLM political groups not being the same thing.

Just a coincidence that they share the same name...

[Evanivitch]

Vanden Saab said:

Evanivitch said:

blackrabbit said:

Even Sven Goran Erikson thinks taking the knee is supporting BLM :

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-08/taking-the-kne...

The BLM movement and BLM political groups not being the same thing.

Just a coincidence that they share the same name...

It's not a coincidence. But that doesn't mean they're the same thing either.

[Drezza]

Evanivitch said:

Should Hindus and Buddhists abandon the swastika because of more recent history?

The difference being the Nazis stole that from them originally so not really the same.

[Evanivitch]

Drezza said:

Evanivitch said:

Should Hindus and Buddhists abandon the swastika because of more recent history?

The difference being the Nazis stole that from them originally so not really the same.

The swastika symbol has been found on artefacts throughout Europe and Asia. The Nazis didn't steal the symbol from Hindus and Buddhists, and both eastern cultures continue to use the symbol today.

Undoubtedly the swastika has negative connotations in Western culture, but that is based on the education that we receive on the matter being narrow in its vision.

Just like you've chosen to associate taking a knee with the BLM political groups, because you've chosen to ignore the prevalence of the protest prior to the BLM movement, and the subsequent emergence of BLM political groups.

Edited by Evanivitch on Saturday 12th June 23:01

[Tony427]

Evanivitch said:

Drezza said:

Evanivitch said:

Should Hindus and Buddhists abandon the swastika because of more recent history?

The difference being the Nazis stole that from them originally so not really the same.

The swastika symbol has been found on artefacts throughout Europe and Asia. The Nazis didn't steal the symbol from Hindus and Buddhists, and both eastern cultures continue to use the symbol today.

Undoubtedly the swastika has negative connotations in Western culture, but that is based on the education that we receive on the matter being narrow in its vision.

Just like you've chosen to associate taking a knee with the BLM political groups, because you've chosen to ignore the prevalence of the protest prior to the BLM movement, and the subsequent emergence of BLM political groups.

Edited by Evanivitch on Saturday 12th June 23:01

When did the England football team, or any UK Premier League football team first take the knee.

If it was prior to George Floyd you have a point. If its not ?

I dont know the answer, but you do.

[g3org3y]

I notice in the Belgium vs Russia game, the Belgian players took the knee, the Russians did not. Plenty of boos and jeering, but given the game took place in St Petersburg unlikely to have much support.

[bitchstewie]

It's Russia I'm not entirely sure they have the best of records on racism and human rights.

Looks like Belgium's players are secret Marxists too.

Who knew

[markcoznottz]

aston80 said:

stongle said:

The JH article is a bit weak IMHO. BLM really isn't a Marxist movement. Sure some of the fringe are, and arguably anything that is a protest movement IS at risk of fringe shouting. BUT, that shouty Marxist crap isn't representative of those supporting it.

I'm willing to guess 99% of BLM supporters vote Labour. BLM is a far-left concept. Don't even pretend it's not.

‘The abolition of capitalism, the defunding of the police, the destruction of the family as the primary non-State societal institution, and the overthrow of white supremacist patriarchy’  Nice fluffy movement then.

[Supercilious Sid]

markcoznottz said:

‘The abolition of capitalism, the defunding of the police, the destruction of the family as the primary non-State societal institution, and the overthrow of white supremacist patriarchy’  Nice fluffy movement then.

That's just centrist to some on this thread.

[tangerine_sedge]

Supercilious Sid said:

markcoznottz said:

‘The abolition of capitalism, the defunding of the police, the destruction of the family as the primary non-State societal institution, and the overthrow of white supremacist patriarchy’  Nice fluffy movement then.

That's just centrist to some on this thread.

That's just an argument for the anti-anti-racists to use to excuse their booing.

[ddom]

Tony427 said:

When did the England football team, or any UK Premier League football team first take the knee.

If it was prior to George Floyd you have a point. If its not ?

I dont know the answer, but you do.

[Ian Geary]

I see the fa have issued a statement saying they are not aligned to any political movement or ideology, but this is a gesture of unity against inequality.

But the crux of this issue seems to be: how is taking the knee being perceived?

I could stand up and give the Nazis salute each day, and say it was a gesture of unity.

Few would believe me, and I've used a deliberately ridiculous example to make the point. Which is: It isn't what I believe that is important.

Surely the England squad aren't naive enough to know taking the knee is going to be perceived politically aligned gesture, and them saying it isn't is just closing their ears to the fact.


I think it's being perceived by it's critics as at best a token gesture....and fighting racism is too important to be left to token gestures.

At worst, it is being perceived devisive gesture from an ideology that is aimed at attacking the white western culture, and it's values.

It's probably somewhere in the middle, so some criticism should be expected, and, in a free society, should be allowed.


As a white middle class chap I think the UK is moving quite well towards reducing race inequality....far better than some of our peers with similar colonial history. But then: what does my opinion count for?

For the record, I totally agree that blm, but I am less sure I can agree with BLM.