How many have been vaccinated so far?

[spikeyhead]

768 said:

Zoobeef said:

Infection gives better immunity than the vaccine.

Because the best sort of immunity is the one that isn't safe to acquire to the point it might kill you (amongst other outcomes), isn't based on a predictable exposure and can't be boosted on a predictable schedule?

Ahhh, Zoobeef's one of those people.

[Vasco]

speedy_thrills said:

Is there a timeline for the second iteration of the vaccine being developed against mutant strains?

Surely it now becomes just an ongoing project?

[Phil Dicky]

Vasco said:

speedy_thrills said:

Is there a timeline for the second iteration of the vaccine being developed against mutant strains?

Surely it now becomes just an ongoing project?

Thats how I see it, Flu jab and Covid jab..one in each arm

[768]

Multiple ongoing projects with different approaches.

[Vanden Saab]

vaud said:

saaby93 said:

UK has ordered 457million does of vaccine - is that a risk of oversupply for 70m people?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833
Surely the 140million from AZ and pfizer should be about right

Yes, it was a de-risking strategy as at the time they did not know, and could not know which would be successful in trials.

If they had known at the time of ordering that AZ was going to be safe and give sufficient response, then no doubt they would have ordered that. But they couldn't so they didnt.

Canny move.

On many levels as we can pass on what we do not need to others hence increasing our soft power and we will be first in the queue for any 'booster' vaccine needed for any new 'mutant' strain. For details of what happens when you put half your eggs in the wrong basket google EU and Sanofi.

[loafer123]

Phil Dicky said:

Vasco said:

speedy_thrills said:

Is there a timeline for the second iteration of the vaccine being developed against mutant strains?

Surely it now becomes just an ongoing project?

Thats how I see it, Flu jab and Covid jab..one in each arm

Apparently, Sarah Gilbert (AZ vaccine inventor) says today that she thinks it reasonably likely that only those over 70 will require an annual booster.

There was also positive news over the weekend about a potential universal flu vaccine which would obviate the need to vaccinate for that annually.

[turbobloke]

loafer123 said:

Phil Dicky said:

Vasco said:

speedy_thrills said:

Is there a timeline for the second iteration of the vaccine being developed against mutant strains?

Surely it now becomes just an ongoing project?

Thats how I see it, Flu jab and Covid jab..one in each arm

Apparently, Sarah Gilbert (AZ vaccine inventor) says today that she thinks it reasonably likely that only those over 70 will require an annual booster.

There was also positive news over the weekend about a potential universal flu vaccine which would obviate the need to vaccinate for that annually.

Stalking the flu virus, nice.

[vaud]

Zoobeef said:

Infection gives better immunity than the vaccine.

Source?

[otolith]

isaldiri said:

otolith said:

Is your contention that we would have had the same number of infections had we continued business as usual? I'm not asking whether "the most intensive restrictions" made a difference versus the baseline of what we did between them, I'm asking whether we would have had the same number of infections (and therefore deaths) had we done absolutely nothing, like we do in a bad flu season.

My contention is that 'lockdowns' as used by the UK has not necessarily had an impact wrt to overall deaths, particularly excess deaths given the way and timing of their implementation. I'd suggest the 'business as usual' argument death numbers' is a bit of a moot point as behaviour change occurs that slows infections considerably can and does occur when people get bombarded with enough death virus messaging and can see hospitalisations rising, as we had seen before lockdown 1 and 2.

But that's not the context of the conversation - it wasn't about what level of NPI would have been sufficient, it was about this;

snuffy said:

But the thing is, we are not treating it like flu. So in a bad year, 50,000 people die in the UK of flu. And we accept it. Now it's not acceptable it seems. So some on SAGE may say that, but that's approach is not happening.

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

[vaud]

otolith said:

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

Quite right.

Plus 50k flu deaths is with a fairly comprehensive vaccination programme in place.

[andy43]

loafer123 said:

Apparently, Sarah Gilbert (AZ vaccine inventor) says today that she thinks it reasonably likely that only those over 70 will require an annual booster.

There was also positive news over the weekend about a potential universal flu vaccine which would obviate the need to vaccinate for that annually.

An insensitive statement but I'll say it anyway - in one way covid may be a good thing - research into vaccine development is front and centre on the news, for investment etc.
If a cheap universal one-shot vaccine created using mRNA or similar that will protect against flu/covid/malaria/ebola/whatever comes out of all this it could be a real positive for the world.

[Murph7355]

spikeyhead said:

768 said:

Zoobeef said:

Infection gives better immunity than the vaccine.

Because the best sort of immunity is the one that isn't safe to acquire to the point it might kill you (amongst other outcomes), isn't based on a predictable exposure and can't be boosted on a predictable schedule?

Ahhh, Zoobeef's one of those people.

Who are "those people"?

[Zoobeef]

otolith said:

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

Speculation and self justification.

[Zoobeef]

vaud said:

Source?

I'm sure you're grown up enough to search for almost any paper on it.

[Murph7355]

Zoobeef said:

otolith said:

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

Speculation and self justification.

Do you think your views aren't?

[Wombat3]

Murph7355 said:

Zoobeef said:

otolith said:

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

Speculation and self justification.

Do you think your views aren't?

Tin foil hat wearing nonsense with barely a scintilla of truth, fact or science about any of it might be more accurate.

[lowdrag]

An interesting conversation today with a friend who had been in hospital for a small operation but nothing to do with Covid. He overheard two nurses discussing the vaccine and why they don't want it; it seems that it is because any contact with someone who has the virus leads to several weeks quarantine. Take it for what you will, but I have no reason to disbelieve a friend of 30 years standing.

[Zoobeef]

Murph7355 said:

Zoobeef said:

otolith said:

The comparability of 50k dying in a bad flu year, when we do basically nothing - and 120k dying over a period when we have massively reduced social contact is the question.

I think that if we had treated this like flu (i.e. done nothing) we would have several times as many deaths - so the suggestion that it's weird that we didn't treat it like flu because when we shut half the economy down and confined everyone to quarters we "only" got about two and a half times as many deaths as a bad flu year with no NPIs at all makes no sense.

Speculation and self justification.

Do you think your views aren't?

I'm basing mine on history. You are going to kill more long term than you've saved (for a few months and then they die anyway).

You justify it to yourselves because its spread over a longer period.
Every lockdown nutter has blood on their hands.

[saaby93]

lowdrag said:

An interesting conversation today with a friend who had been in hospital for a small operation but nothing to do with Covid. He overheard two nurses discussing the vaccine and why they don't want it; it seems that it is because any contact with someone who has the virus leads to several weeks quarantine.

Can you break down the missing steps in the thought process?

[Blib]

Mrs B, 55yo. Just managed to book first shot through the NHS link after several days of automatic "too young to be eligible " messages

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19...