Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 10
Discussion
I would vote to blow it up tomorrow for sure! Lotobear if you go on holiday to Northumberland jump across the Border on the East coast. We voted 67% to remain part of the UK and you will be very welcome here! It is really sad that a lot of numpties don't seem to know the difference between a bit of sporting rivalry/banter and wanting to cut the sassenach's gullet!
We had a new sales rep come in(Essex boy) who had just moved to the East coast and he told me that when he stayed in Airdrie in 2014 leading up to indy ref he soon learn't to keep his mouth shut in certain places and not crack any jokes about the snp as he had seen it get very ugly in the street! Very sad.
We had a new sales rep come in(Essex boy) who had just moved to the East coast and he told me that when he stayed in Airdrie in 2014 leading up to indy ref he soon learn't to keep his mouth shut in certain places and not crack any jokes about the snp as he had seen it get very ugly in the street! Very sad.
WackyWeaver said:
Would you believe the tory party if they had the same claim?
Have read this post with interest. Different perspective maybe, I'm Welsh.
I am appalled by the anti-English sentiment that seems to be on the rise both in Scotland and Wales, especially over the last 20 years or so since devolution.
I don't understand why the English electorate have not called out for independence of their own. IMO, England is the only one of the home nations who could 'go it alone'. If I was English I'm sure I would feel stuff the Scottish and stuff the Welsh - they are both moaning and griping about Westminster, but are happy to take the English tax payers handouts. If the English electorate got the chance to vote for an independent England I think they would vote in favour - who could blame them?
The old adage, 'you reap what you sow'!
Btw, can I come and live in En-ger-land please? I promise I'll be good ...
I am appalled by the anti-English sentiment that seems to be on the rise both in Scotland and Wales, especially over the last 20 years or so since devolution.
I don't understand why the English electorate have not called out for independence of their own. IMO, England is the only one of the home nations who could 'go it alone'. If I was English I'm sure I would feel stuff the Scottish and stuff the Welsh - they are both moaning and griping about Westminster, but are happy to take the English tax payers handouts. If the English electorate got the chance to vote for an independent England I think they would vote in favour - who could blame them?
The old adage, 'you reap what you sow'!
Btw, can I come and live in En-ger-land please? I promise I'll be good ...
Quisling said:
WackyWeaver said:
Would you believe the tory party if they had the same claim?ScotHill said:
Has any country/part of a country attained independence and had to set up all the infrastructure/systems/services that an Indy Scotland would have to set up? (which I think they quoted £200m and 18 months for)
In modern times, like post-1960, Singapore and South Africa maybe? But it did take longer than 18 months.If you go further back there are loads of examples (USA, Ireland, India, Qatar, etc).
MrMan001 said:
ScotHill said:
Has any country/part of a country attained independence and had to set up all the infrastructure/systems/services that an Indy Scotland would have to set up? (which I think they quoted £200m and 18 months for)
In modern times, like post-1960, Singapore and South Africa maybe? But it did take longer than 18 months.If you go further back there are loads of examples (USA, Ireland, India, Qatar, etc).
gruffalo said:
This is pretty much where I am now.
I am half Scottish and I personally did two tours in Scotland in the 1980's when I was based at RAF Saxa Vord and Stornoway, loved the places and the people more but I have never lived there for longer than 3 years at a time.
I have been back to both several times over the years and it is lovely when I get there but if I stop on the way it is sometimes less pleasant, Scotland is the only place I have been abused for the way I speak being a southerner.
I am heading back up in the summer and I fear it will be the last time unless Scotland gets rid of the SNP and re-engages with the rest of the UK, otherwise if I had the vote it would be for Scotland to leave the union so they stop moaning about the English.
Very sad to feel this way but that is the way it is now, my mother who is the Scottish one will never return after the way my father was treated last time they were in Aberdeen, her home town, together.
Very sad times.
I've had very similar experiences myself. My mum is from Shetland - a brilliant place with the friendliest of folk. However, on the journey up to the ferry from Aberdeen, we've had some unpleasant experiences - there is a marked on contrast to how we are treated in Scotland (by comparison with Shetland). I'd be very happy to live/work in Shetland, but not in Scotland.I am half Scottish and I personally did two tours in Scotland in the 1980's when I was based at RAF Saxa Vord and Stornoway, loved the places and the people more but I have never lived there for longer than 3 years at a time.
I have been back to both several times over the years and it is lovely when I get there but if I stop on the way it is sometimes less pleasant, Scotland is the only place I have been abused for the way I speak being a southerner.
I am heading back up in the summer and I fear it will be the last time unless Scotland gets rid of the SNP and re-engages with the rest of the UK, otherwise if I had the vote it would be for Scotland to leave the union so they stop moaning about the English.
Very sad to feel this way but that is the way it is now, my mother who is the Scottish one will never return after the way my father was treated last time they were in Aberdeen, her home town, together.
Very sad times.
simoid said:
I’m coming round to the idea of another referendum. The future of Scotland shouldn’t be decided on the words of politicians though, as Brexit was, it should be negotiated first and a concrete deal voted on. The Indy and brexit refs were utterly marred by hypothetical bulls
t.
Same here but as an Englishman I am hoping that we English get to vote on whether WE want to be in the UK any longer. Just utterly fed up with the other nations complaining all the time and blaming us for everything TBH. t.Greedydog said:
None which would comparable in complexity and it would have taken an awful lot more than £200m.
I'd agree that the Scottish situation is probably considerably less complex than those examples (particularly South Africa), you're probably right about the budget. The value of Scotland, both to the union and the potential costs/benefit of independence, are quite difficult to quantify in purely accounting terms (a bit like railways in that regard).Vanden Saab said:
Same here but as an Englishman I am hoping that we English get to vote on whether WE want to be in the UK any longer. Just utterly fed up with the other nations complaining all the time and blaming us for everything TBH.
It is a vocal minority who do that, one world, one love man xmarcella said:
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I think you vastly overestimate the importance to most in the rest of the U.K.I can’t imagine scexit would be top 20 priority to most English voters. For most of those who would rank it in the top 20, they just want an end to the constant whining.
After 20 years of thinly veiled racism from the SNP, it’s clearly over.
Just like when a relationship ends it’s over, so independence should mean that. No tariff free trade, no freedom of movement, no Sterling.
nikaiyo2 said:
I think you vastly overestimate the importance to most in the rest of the U.K.
You're definitely right about this part, but it's worth considering if this view is actually sensible. I can't imagine many other World governments being keen to lose >30% of their land mass, containing some of their reasonably economically productive urban areas.nikaiyo2 said:
marcella said:
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I think you vastly overestimate the importance to most in the rest of the U.K.I can’t imagine scexit would be top 20 priority to most English voters. For most of those who would rank it in the top 20, they just want an end to the constant whining.
After 20 years of thinly veiled racism from the SNP, it’s clearly over.
Just like when a relationship ends it’s over, so independence should mean that. No tariff free trade, no freedom of movement, no Sterling.
nikaiyo2 said:
marcella said:
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I think you vastly overestimate the importance to most in the rest of the U.K.I can’t imagine scexit would be top 20 priority to most English voters. For most of those who would rank it in the top 20, they just want an end to the constant whining.
After 20 years of thinly veiled racism from the SNP, it’s clearly over.
Just like when a relationship ends it’s over, so independence should mean that. No tariff free trade, no freedom of movement, no Sterling.
There a may also be quite a few obvious pluses to them leaving though.
However, the elephant in the room (in government anyway) is a recognition of the negative aspects of Scexit which are best avoided if possible.
Mass immigration South. There are, after all, several million Scots who want no part of this.
A huge cost from all directions.
Massive disruption
The endless tieing up of government and civil service resources and time in order to effect the split
The need to relocate & repatriate things like the Submarine fleet & other military resources (at huge cost & with a huge amounts of work and effort involved)
Ending up with a chippy banana republic on your doorstep.
In other words, its not so much that there may be so many positives to Scotland remaining, its about avoiding the huge steaming pile of negatives that will be created if it happens, All to make a bunch of selfish t
ts (yet only 3 or 4 % of the UK population) happy. Its a difficult situation now though - what they must not do is give more power & money (or control over it) to Holyrood, and definitly not "Devo max" because that will start to create resentment elsewhere. The Scots have a better deal in terms of public spending than the rest of us anyway & yet they have proved that they can't run a piss up in a brewery. Enough is enough.
Wombat3 said:
nikaiyo2 said:
marcella said:
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I think you vastly overestimate the importance to most in the rest of the U.K.I can’t imagine scexit would be top 20 priority to most English voters. For most of those who would rank it in the top 20, they just want an end to the constant whining.
After 20 years of thinly veiled racism from the SNP, it’s clearly over.
Just like when a relationship ends it’s over, so independence should mean that. No tariff free trade, no freedom of movement, no Sterling.
There a may also be quite a few obvious pluses to them leaving though.
However, the elephant in the room (in government anyway) is a recognition of the negative aspects of Scexit which are best avoided if possible.
Mass immigration South. There are, after all, several million Scots who want no part of this.
A huge cost from all directions.
Massive disruption
The endless tieing up of government and civil service resources and time in order to effect the split
The need to relocate & repatriate things like the Submarine fleet & other military resources (at huge cost & with a huge amounts of work and effort involved)
Ending up with a chippy banana republic on your doorstep.
In other words, its not so much that there may be so many positives to Scotland remaining, its about avoiding the huge steaming pile of negatives that will be created if it happens, All to make a bunch of selfish t
ts (yet only 3 or 4 % of the UK population) happy. Its a difficult situation now though - what they must not do is give more power & money (or control over it) to Holyrood, and definitly not "Devo max" because that will start to create resentment elsewhere. The Scots have a better deal in terms of public spending than the rest of us anyway & yet they have proved that they can't run a piss up in a brewery. Enough is enough.
A question to Deadslow or any other NAT brave enough to stick a head above the parapet
When we see blog posts like this from a leading light of the independence movement saying that the SNP are utterly corrupt
https://sourcenews.scot/robin-mcalpine-the-foundat...
Why do you still support them?
Surely if the very most important thing in life is to DESTROY THE UNION
Then wouldn't it be easier if there was a independence party who weren't blatantly corrupt?
As then they might attract labour voters or even us subhuman tory voters
or is this like football
You passionately support celtic/SNP because it is part of your character and it is nothing todo with making scotland a better place?
PS i don't expect a sensible answer
When we see blog posts like this from a leading light of the independence movement saying that the SNP are utterly corrupt
https://sourcenews.scot/robin-mcalpine-the-foundat...
Why do you still support them?
Surely if the very most important thing in life is to DESTROY THE UNION
Then wouldn't it be easier if there was a independence party who weren't blatantly corrupt?
As then they might attract labour voters or even us subhuman tory voters
or is this like football
You passionately support celtic/SNP because it is part of your character and it is nothing todo with making scotland a better place?
PS i don't expect a sensible answer
It it exactly that, a divide based on the catholic/celtic mentality, a bitter resentment of Great Britain based upon deep rooted bigotry and solidarity with the irish. I dont know how you can counter such fanaticism but the majority know we are better together, the wronguns just scream the loudest. Independence is treated as a religion, fk the evidence we just believe harder and ignore the facts.
There are a lot of more moderate and pragmatic people im the celtic/catholic camp, but they tend to get viewed as traitors by the zealots.
k the evidence we just believe harder and ignore the facts.There are a lot of more moderate and pragmatic people im the celtic/catholic camp, but they tend to get viewed as traitors by the zealots.
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Friday 5th March 08:37
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