Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 10
Discussion
I've never understood the Scottish desire for 'independence' because it seems to me they have the very, very best of both worlds.
They have a strong identity and distinct culture which crucially they are free to express, indeed it would seem almost encouraged, but they also have the advantage of being part of a union which provides security in many different ways not least fiscally. The English don't have that and even the mildest expression of there being an English 'culture' is immediately seized upon as being somehow bad or racist.
I guess I'm English as that is where I was born (though undoubtedly I have Celtic blood - you would know that if you could see me!) but I regard myself as British and don't see the English bit as important however I recognise that many might do. I view the Scots for the most part as good and friendly folk and no different in reality to some regions of England, such as Geordies, Scousers and the like in terms of having a distinct identity and culture.
I can't for the life of me understand why devolution has not been sufficient; it seems to me to be the very definition of 'cake and eat it'.
They have a strong identity and distinct culture which crucially they are free to express, indeed it would seem almost encouraged, but they also have the advantage of being part of a union which provides security in many different ways not least fiscally. The English don't have that and even the mildest expression of there being an English 'culture' is immediately seized upon as being somehow bad or racist.
I guess I'm English as that is where I was born (though undoubtedly I have Celtic blood - you would know that if you could see me!) but I regard myself as British and don't see the English bit as important however I recognise that many might do. I view the Scots for the most part as good and friendly folk and no different in reality to some regions of England, such as Geordies, Scousers and the like in terms of having a distinct identity and culture.
I can't for the life of me understand why devolution has not been sufficient; it seems to me to be the very definition of 'cake and eat it'.
Jasey_ said:
As suspected the lieing 
hasn't turned up fron her daily broadcast.
Hopefully she's prepping her abdication speech.
Scourgeon is too scared someone might ask her a difficult question, under that fake hasn't turned up fron her daily broadcast.Hopefully she's prepping her abdication speech.
super confident persona she must be panicking profusely, she is in the net, captured and quickly being reeled
in to the rocky shoreline where the fishiest of fishy fish will be gutted.
Her meeting with Geoff Aberdein on March 29 2018 was fixed earlier that month by her chief of staff to review
the complaints and fix a follow on meeting with Salmond (April 2). So inconceivable she didn’t know in March, If not before.
I've always found it's better to stick to the truth at all times, that way you will never ever be found out to be a liar,
Krankie lives by a very different concept.
It all leaves the question; what is Salmond's goal?
He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It all leaves the question; what is Salmond's goal?
He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
I think he wants to clear his name.He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
With no resignations, dismissals or apologies forthcoming from the SG he is having to fight to prove his innocence not simply in court, but in the court of public opinion. He's given NS her way out, she needs to lop a few heads, admit she broke the ministerial code "a wee bit", distance herself from the wrongdoing and allow AS's version of events to stand. Only this will allow a smooth run at an election campaign, an SNP win and the whole lot to be forgotten about.
She's not doing that though which is hopefully both hers and the SNPs downfall.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
ant1973 said:
I think the point to keep in mind is that Salmond has those messages.
If they are not released, they will inevitably be leaked.
And that's where the fun and games begins.
Do communications with the committee attract similar immunity as with court proceedings?If they are not released, they will inevitably be leaked.
And that's where the fun and games begins.
Edited by ant1973 on Monday 1st March 13:22
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It all leaves the question; what is Salmond's goal?
He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
He believes, rightly or wrongly, (and so far it would seem rightly) that there was a concerted effort to imprison him for appalling crimes he didn't commit. So it's perfectly understandable that he wanted redress, He has also now seen the First Minister publicly suggest that the jury got it wrong when they acquitted him. Are you seriously suggesting he should keep quiet in case defending himself somehow damages the prospect if independence? He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
Secondly, why does he need a goal? The current enquiry isn't his personal project, it's the Scottish parliament trying to find out why so much money was wasted. he is merely a witness answering questions under oath. If he is asked what evidence he has, what is he supposed to do?
Dr Jekyll said:
He believes, rightly or wrongly, (and so far it would seem rightly) that there was a concerted effort to imprison him for appalling crimes he didn't commit. So it's perfectly understandable that he wanted redress, He has also now seen the First Minister publicly suggest that the jury got it wrong when they acquitted him. Are you seriously suggesting he should keep quiet in case defending himself somehow damages the prospect if independence?
Secondly, why does he need a goal? The current enquiry isn't his personal project, it's the Scottish parliament trying to find out why so much money was wasted. he is merely a witness answering questions under oath. If he is asked what evidence he has, what is he supposed to do?
I'm not seriously suggesting anything.Secondly, why does he need a goal? The current enquiry isn't his personal project, it's the Scottish parliament trying to find out why so much money was wasted. he is merely a witness answering questions under oath. If he is asked what evidence he has, what is he supposed to do?
If he's doing it solely to clear his name and see his accusers face justice, fair enough. If he's doing it to put himself back in power, fair enough. If it's neither or both, fair enough. No iron in the fire for me, other than I find Sturgeon a hateful politician.
As for Salmond, he is an intelligent person who has spent his political career trying to make Scotland independent. He would know that his actions now will have material impact on the chances of that. I don't believe someone with Salmond's track record, aims and intelligence would risk his lifelong ambition on the basis of an emotional need for vengeance. Of course I could be completely wrong.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Dr Jekyll said:
He believes, rightly or wrongly, (and so far it would seem rightly) that there was a concerted effort to imprison him for appalling crimes he didn't commit. So it's perfectly understandable that he wanted redress, He has also now seen the First Minister publicly suggest that the jury got it wrong when they acquitted him. Are you seriously suggesting he should keep quiet in case defending himself somehow damages the prospect if independence?
Secondly, why does he need a goal? The current enquiry isn't his personal project, it's the Scottish parliament trying to find out why so much money was wasted. he is merely a witness answering questions under oath. If he is asked what evidence he has, what is he supposed to do?
I'm not seriously suggesting anything.Secondly, why does he need a goal? The current enquiry isn't his personal project, it's the Scottish parliament trying to find out why so much money was wasted. he is merely a witness answering questions under oath. If he is asked what evidence he has, what is he supposed to do?
If he's doing it solely to clear his name and see his accusers face justice, fair enough. If he's doing it to put himself back in power, fair enough. If it's neither or both, fair enough. No iron in the fire for me, other than I find Sturgeon a hateful politician.
As for Salmond, he is an intelligent person who has spent his political career trying to make Scotland independent. He would know that his actions now will have material impact on the chances of that. I don't believe someone with Salmond's track record, aims and intelligence would risk his lifelong ambition on the basis of an emotional need for vengeance. Of course I could be completely wrong.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It all leaves the question; what is Salmond's goal?
He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
Maybe he has principles, unlike SNP's ordinary supporters or MSPs. Perhaps he wants Inde without handing it to a corrupt virtual dictatorship!He may be an egotistical narcissist, he may feel as a victim of corruption it's his moral and personal duty to bring the wrongdoers to justice. However t
If he achieves that, it kills the building momentum for independence. A vacuum in the movement risks what ostensibly has been his life's work in politics.
That's why I believe he has to have a motive beyond operation torpedo Mammie.
When even George Galloway announces on twitter that his 1st vote will be for the Conservative party then you know people don't like what they see.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
'm not seriously suggesting anything.
If he's doing it solely to clear his name and see his accusers face justice, fair enough. If he's doing it to put himself back in power, fair enough. If it's neither or both, fair enough. No iron in the fire for me, other than I find Sturgeon a hateful politician.
...
My guess is a healthy dose of (a) that may well lead to (b) too (I was wronged, I was innocent all the time as you can now see, there's a void in leadership, I can get you independence).If he's doing it solely to clear his name and see his accusers face justice, fair enough. If he's doing it to put himself back in power, fair enough. If it's neither or both, fair enough. No iron in the fire for me, other than I find Sturgeon a hateful politician.
...
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
jshell said:
Maybe he has principles, unlike SNP's ordinary supporters or MSPs. Perhaps he wants Inde without handing it to a corrupt virtual dictatorship!
He won't get it if he chops the head off the SNP and sails off into a cloud of midges. If the SNP get inde now, the rats that will emerge to take advantage will be incredible. The stalwart SNP voter has no clue what's planned.
jshell said:
Currently the SNP are led by a bunch of chancers, rogues and liars. Perhaps he thinks some integrity will lead more people to support Inde.
If the SNP get inde now, the rats that will emerge to take advantage will be incredible. The stalwart SNP voter has no clue what's planned.
No support for the SNP or Sturgeon (or Salmond, for that matter) from me. If the SNP get inde now, the rats that will emerge to take advantage will be incredible. The stalwart SNP voter has no clue what's planned.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff