CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
Otispunkmeyer said:
I wonder how much of the polling reflects what happens in things like exit polls... Ie they tell the nice people what they want to hear and then go vote for who they really want. Remember when exit polls showed labour had it down pat, then when the vote came in they'd be soundly beaten instead.
I mean last weekend when it was sunny I've never seen so many people use the park. Everyone was out. Large queue for the enterprising ice cream van, all the swings and slides occupied, 5 a side footy on the playing court, large groups out on the grass with hot drinks, skate park getting plenty of skin on it etc. Like a summer's day almost.
Pretty sure you're not supposed to be doing any of that right now. But how many of those, when asked later, maybe by a online survey or door knocker, would say yes we follow the rules and don't want to release too soon to slow the spread?
It's a British thing? Tell the nice people from the government what they want to hear for an easy life and then turn around and do what you wanted anyway.
I dunno. Look at what people actually do rather than what they say they are doing.
I think lots of folks seem to think it relates to other people too. I've seen dozens of people on FB complaining how many people they'd seen out walking while out for their walk. "Not me - you people!" I mean last weekend when it was sunny I've never seen so many people use the park. Everyone was out. Large queue for the enterprising ice cream van, all the swings and slides occupied, 5 a side footy on the playing court, large groups out on the grass with hot drinks, skate park getting plenty of skin on it etc. Like a summer's day almost.
Pretty sure you're not supposed to be doing any of that right now. But how many of those, when asked later, maybe by a online survey or door knocker, would say yes we follow the rules and don't want to release too soon to slow the spread?
It's a British thing? Tell the nice people from the government what they want to hear for an easy life and then turn around and do what you wanted anyway.
I dunno. Look at what people actually do rather than what they say they are doing.
We even had someone in our house telling us it would all be over if people would just stay home!
The world has gone quite mad.
danllama said:
Is that it? A yougov poll?
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I can't believe I find myself on this side of the argument but, hey ho. Those of us who want this to end as soon as possible are not well served by your very limited line of argument. That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I've shown you my data. Time for you to show me yours. If all you've got is assertion then there really is little point continuing.
danllama said:
basherX said:
danllama said:
No. I'm happy to see evidence. Have you got or do you know of any evidence that the majority of this country supports lockdowns? You say the evidence is against me, so let's see it?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/05/brits-support-national-lockdown-jan-2021Sad to say, but we're in a minority.
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
Edited by danllama on Thursday 4th March 17:54
MEC said:
I think lots of folks seem to think it relates to other people too. I've seen dozens of people on FB complaining how many people they'd seen out walking while out for their walk. "Not me - you people!"
We even had someone in our house telling us it would all be over if people would just stay home!
The world has gone quite mad.
I will keep on saying this - the only virus that is out of control at the moment is the hypocrisy virus.We even had someone in our house telling us it would all be over if people would just stay home!
The world has gone quite mad.
It is infecting very many people across the country and I can’t see any way of controlling it
basherX said:
danllama said:
Is that it? A yougov poll?
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I can't believe I find myself on this side of the argument but, hey ho. Those of us who want this to end as soon as possible are not well served by your very limited line of argument. That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I've shown you my data. Time for you to show me yours. If all you've got is assertion then there really is little point continuing.
On the contrary, people have been subject to a government scare campaign, a rabid media, anti protest laws, rules on leaving the house and seeing their families. All very democratic.
It is a fact that the British public were not asked if they supported the governments lockdown. And we still haven't been asked.
I don't see the point in digging out polls from other avenues as it would be contrary to my point.
Edited by danllama on Thursday 4th March 18:05
MEC said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
I wonder how much of the polling reflects what happens in things like exit polls... Ie they tell the nice people what they want to hear and then go vote for who they really want. Remember when exit polls showed labour had it down pat, then when the vote came in they'd be soundly beaten instead.
I mean last weekend when it was sunny I've never seen so many people use the park. Everyone was out. Large queue for the enterprising ice cream van, all the swings and slides occupied, 5 a side footy on the playing court, large groups out on the grass with hot drinks, skate park getting plenty of skin on it etc. Like a summer's day almost.
Pretty sure you're not supposed to be doing any of that right now. But how many of those, when asked later, maybe by a online survey or door knocker, would say yes we follow the rules and don't want to release too soon to slow the spread?
It's a British thing? Tell the nice people from the government what they want to hear for an easy life and then turn around and do what you wanted anyway.
I dunno. Look at what people actually do rather than what they say they are doing.
I think lots of folks seem to think it relates to other people too. I've seen dozens of people on FB complaining how many people they'd seen out walking while out for their walk. "Not me - you people!" I mean last weekend when it was sunny I've never seen so many people use the park. Everyone was out. Large queue for the enterprising ice cream van, all the swings and slides occupied, 5 a side footy on the playing court, large groups out on the grass with hot drinks, skate park getting plenty of skin on it etc. Like a summer's day almost.
Pretty sure you're not supposed to be doing any of that right now. But how many of those, when asked later, maybe by a online survey or door knocker, would say yes we follow the rules and don't want to release too soon to slow the spread?
It's a British thing? Tell the nice people from the government what they want to hear for an easy life and then turn around and do what you wanted anyway.
I dunno. Look at what people actually do rather than what they say they are doing.
We even had someone in our house telling us it would all be over if people would just stay home!
The world has gone quite mad.
But these other people, yes they should stay at home.
danllama said:
Is that it? A yougov poll?
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
So you don't accept the only evidence out there, therefore there is no evidence, and therefore, the opposite is true is a very strange argument. Other pollsters are finding the same thing, it's also the case in many other countries, Maybe you have an occasion when the polls were out by such a huge margin of error that would turn this level of support into lack of support? That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
Edited by danllama on Thursday 4th March 17:54
basherX said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Yeah YouGov poll is right up there with Wikipedia as a credible citation for your PhD thesis. I'd try find some other sources.
Remind me, where does it sit in the hierarchy relative to the PH echo chamber? Feel free to chip in with an alternative data source.
I have a look every now and then, but I struggle to find something impartial. If I find something I will post it.
It's always interesting, surveys, you have to wonder how many people are being genuine vs replying how they think they should reply vs questions that have been worded or even ordered to bring the person round to a certain conclusion. Very few seem to ask direct questions.
danllama said:
Is that it? A yougov poll?
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
TBF, the polls are probably right, when you think of what is going on in the country right now?That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
Otispunkmeyer said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/commen...
And we're a nation of fatties like the US.
The irony of shutting down many healthy activities like gyms and pools. Eat out to help out (where was workout to help out?) And the noticeable increase in ads like the KFC one, where you don't even have to lift your greasy arse out of the divot in your sofa to get a nice bucket of heart attack direct to gob.
We've shut down the country for a virus that is almost innocuous to anyone under 65. Yet they're quite happy to have over a 1/3 of people eating their way to an early grave.
Another way to think about it is this. Stopping Furlough 3.5 months early means that the rise in corporation tax can be cancelled...And we're a nation of fatties like the US.
The irony of shutting down many healthy activities like gyms and pools. Eat out to help out (where was workout to help out?) And the noticeable increase in ads like the KFC one, where you don't even have to lift your greasy arse out of the divot in your sofa to get a nice bucket of heart attack direct to gob.
We've shut down the country for a virus that is almost innocuous to anyone under 65. Yet they're quite happy to have over a 1/3 of people eating their way to an early grave.
Uggers said:
TBF, the polls are probably right, when you think of what is going on in the country right now?
Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared stless of everything that's reported in the media.
We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
Agreed. And there’s now a vicious circle where continued restrictions are at least partly justified in government because they (are believed to) have support whilst that support is itself predicated on non-clinical factors. Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
That’s the elephant in the room and needs to be addressed. But before that can happen we need to address the wider support for lockdown head on rather than shrieking about government conspiracies.
Just popping in to say hi.
I had to take a step back from this thread as I was slowly immolating.
Anyhow, figures with Covid in my area today per 100k, 44. So 0.04%......
Forty forking Four people! Highest in the whole area of the country - 90. When I was all over it 7,8, 900 people was standard, easy.
How they cannot let us get on with it now I’ll never know.
I had to take a step back from this thread as I was slowly immolating.
Anyhow, figures with Covid in my area today per 100k, 44. So 0.04%......
Forty forking Four people! Highest in the whole area of the country - 90. When I was all over it 7,8, 900 people was standard, easy.
How they cannot let us get on with it now I’ll never know.
ant1973 said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/commen...
And we're a nation of fatties like the US.
The irony of shutting down many healthy activities like gyms and pools. Eat out to help out (where was workout to help out?) And the noticeable increase in ads like the KFC one, where you don't even have to lift your greasy arse out of the divot in your sofa to get a nice bucket of heart attack direct to gob.
We've shut down the country for a virus that is almost innocuous to anyone under 65. Yet they're quite happy to have over a 1/3 of people eating their way to an early grave.
Another way to think about it is this. Stopping Furlough 3.5 months early means that the rise in corporation tax can be cancelled...And we're a nation of fatties like the US.
The irony of shutting down many healthy activities like gyms and pools. Eat out to help out (where was workout to help out?) And the noticeable increase in ads like the KFC one, where you don't even have to lift your greasy arse out of the divot in your sofa to get a nice bucket of heart attack direct to gob.
We've shut down the country for a virus that is almost innocuous to anyone under 65. Yet they're quite happy to have over a 1/3 of people eating their way to an early grave.
t! I've no skin in the corporation tax game either 
basherX said:
Remind me, where does it sit in the hierarchy relative to the PH echo chamber?
Feel free to chip in with an alternative data source.
I don’t quite get your point, I am not surprised at all that people generally say they support lockdowns. Mainly because the amount of misinformation, gaslighting, scaremongering and silencing of alternative views that have gone on in the media outlets of the government. Feel free to chip in with an alternative data source.
All you have to ask yourself is, would anyone working in the travel, hospitality, leisure, education, small businesses, those living alone, anyone not in in the public sector vote for lockdown now? Would anyone at all vote for what has transpired in lockdown in Feb 2020? I honestly doubt it. It’s irrelevant anyway, people supporting lockdown is hardly a ringing endorsement of its effectiveness.
basherX said:
Agreed. And there’s now a vicious circle where continued restrictions are at least partly justified in government because they (are believed to) have support whilst that support is itself predicated on non-clinical factors.
That’s the elephant in the room and needs to be addressed. But before that can happen we need to address the wider support for lockdown head on rather than shrieking about government conspiracies.
Staying with the Yougov polls.....That’s the elephant in the room and needs to be addressed. But before that can happen we need to address the wider support for lockdown head on rather than shrieking about government conspiracies.
One of the worst governements we've ever had in power, kept there by one of the worst oppositions we ever had. I'm a conservative voter and I know s
t like this isn't right.But then free money makes everyone happy!
Edited by Uggers on Thursday 4th March 18:37
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