CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
I can understand that logic although are you happy to have a vaccine that hasn’t been given full approval yet and where the manufacturers have not yet accepted liability for any potential issues that may arise during what is, in my opinion, effectively an extended trial period until 2023?
I am very low risk for having serious covid, even the NHS leaflet says I don’t need it as I am not in any of the criteria they state - if I were then I would take a different view.
If it means I don’t get abroad this year, then so be it - by next year, there will be more data available on the vaccine to help me make my decision.
I think you're half way down the slippery slope already. I am very low risk for having serious covid, even the NHS leaflet says I don’t need it as I am not in any of the criteria they state - if I were then I would take a different view.
If it means I don’t get abroad this year, then so be it - by next year, there will be more data available on the vaccine to help me make my decision.
Once you've had it and you're due another one you might as well just have it again so you can carry on as normal.
What might be interesting when (and I do mean when) there's a vaccine resistant version and we're all in lockdown again will people still take the vaccine that doesn't work anymore?
Not having a go at you. I can fully understand wanting desperately to get back to normal and would consider it myself too. But I know it will ultimately not work.
Also the longer the vaccine is out there, the better the data will be to assess any potential issues which will then help in my decision making.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
What might be interesting when (and I do mean when) there's a vaccine resistant version and we're all in lockdown again will people still take the vaccine that doesn't work anymore?
What might be really interesting is vaccine induced disease enhancement on tens of millions of people who were not originally at great risk from SARS-CoV-2.Alucidnation said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Jasandjules said:
FlabbyMidgets said:
Seeing in the news I'll likely need a vaccine to go on holiday with my mates in the summer means I'll get it begrudgingly.
And this is why the nation is so pathetic. People have no desire to stand up for what is right they simply roll over and accept anything.I have members of my household that don't need it, but they certainly haven't received any leaflets about it.
Kinda goes against the plan IMO.
It also says in bold “ you should have the vaccine if you are ......... followed by various scenarios of where you work and if you are over 65 or if younger have medical issues.
I do not fit any of the scenarios..........
Edited by Boringvolvodriver on Saturday 6th March 19:32
Boringvolvodriver said:
Correct - self interest will always come first and the psychologists know that which is why they present the narrative the way they do.
I sent an email to my Tory MP about the Covid Status Certification review (aka vaccine passports) and his reply was as follows
“ Thank you for your email, comments and concerns.
First of all can I say that they government aren't considering these actions. They have asked for a review on the subject to fully understand what implications of a vaccination passport/certification will have on the UK citizens.
The reasons for this is because we need to fully understand what ramifications not having some form of proof of vaccine will have on the general public.
For example, the insurance industry has already indicated that not having a vaccine will effect insurance premiums on a personal level. Insurance is a risk based business so it is thought that premiums for personal insurance will be higher for those who are higher risk - similar to life insurance of those who smoke compared to those who don't. Similarly, travel insurance is based on personal risk so it is envisaged higher premiums there for people who don't vaccinate. The aim of the review is to establish the best way for people in circumstances like these to prove they have been vaccinated.
We have already also heard that Care companies are starting to insist that carers going into care home must be vaccinated to continue working for them to reduce the risk of death to the clients - something NHS workers already have to sign up to and have always had to.
You've also mentioned international travel. Whilst the aim is for us not to insist on a vaccination passport, due to the success of our vaccination programme compared to many countries, it may have to become a necessity to protect UK citizens from those who come here who are a much higher risk. This is also the aim of the review.
We also know that many countries, including the EU have expressed the desire for visitors to their countries to have proof of vaccination before entry. The challenge becomes of how we implement that for the many millions of trips UK citizens make to those countries - a bit like the requirement for Yellow Fever vaccination certificate if you travel to many African countries.
I don't think you need to fear the loss of liberties by need such documentation to visit the pub for example but as you can see from the instances above there will be 'natural' loss by those who chose to not take the vaccine.
That’s why the review is taking place. Nobody is taking away people's right to refuse the vaccine but like everything in life, there will be ramifications which will happen as a matter of course
I hope this clarifies”
Make of that what you will - I am not convinced - if they were adamant they weren’t going to have them, then why mention them? Or am I being too cynical?
Glad you got a reply. Mine will only reply via HoC headed letters. So you get a reply 2 weeks after each email. Pretty useless really. Almost as if to make you think it's not worth it???!I sent an email to my Tory MP about the Covid Status Certification review (aka vaccine passports) and his reply was as follows
“ Thank you for your email, comments and concerns.
First of all can I say that they government aren't considering these actions. They have asked for a review on the subject to fully understand what implications of a vaccination passport/certification will have on the UK citizens.
The reasons for this is because we need to fully understand what ramifications not having some form of proof of vaccine will have on the general public.
For example, the insurance industry has already indicated that not having a vaccine will effect insurance premiums on a personal level. Insurance is a risk based business so it is thought that premiums for personal insurance will be higher for those who are higher risk - similar to life insurance of those who smoke compared to those who don't. Similarly, travel insurance is based on personal risk so it is envisaged higher premiums there for people who don't vaccinate. The aim of the review is to establish the best way for people in circumstances like these to prove they have been vaccinated.
We have already also heard that Care companies are starting to insist that carers going into care home must be vaccinated to continue working for them to reduce the risk of death to the clients - something NHS workers already have to sign up to and have always had to.
You've also mentioned international travel. Whilst the aim is for us not to insist on a vaccination passport, due to the success of our vaccination programme compared to many countries, it may have to become a necessity to protect UK citizens from those who come here who are a much higher risk. This is also the aim of the review.
We also know that many countries, including the EU have expressed the desire for visitors to their countries to have proof of vaccination before entry. The challenge becomes of how we implement that for the many millions of trips UK citizens make to those countries - a bit like the requirement for Yellow Fever vaccination certificate if you travel to many African countries.
I don't think you need to fear the loss of liberties by need such documentation to visit the pub for example but as you can see from the instances above there will be 'natural' loss by those who chose to not take the vaccine.
That’s why the review is taking place. Nobody is taking away people's right to refuse the vaccine but like everything in life, there will be ramifications which will happen as a matter of course
I hope this clarifies”
Make of that what you will - I am not convinced - if they were adamant they weren’t going to have them, then why mention them? Or am I being too cynical?
bern said:
Glad you got a reply. Mine will only reply via HoC headed letters. So you get a reply 2 weeks after each email. Pretty useless really. Almost as if to make you think it's not worth it???!
Mine has been pretty good in his replies from several emails in the past. He voted against the national lockdown in early November but since then has changed his stance somewhat.........Boringvolvodriver said:
Alucidnation said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Jasandjules said:
FlabbyMidgets said:
Seeing in the news I'll likely need a vaccine to go on holiday with my mates in the summer means I'll get it begrudgingly.
And this is why the nation is so pathetic. People have no desire to stand up for what is right they simply roll over and accept anything.I have members of my household that don't need it, but they certainly haven't received any leaflets about it.
Kinda goes against the plan IMO.
It also says in bold “ you should have the vaccine if you are ......... followed by various scenarios of where you work and if you are over 65 or if younger have medical issues.
I do not fit any of the scenarios..........
Edited by Boringvolvodriver on Saturday 6th March 19:32
I thought you were just being 'anti'.
garyhun said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Where has scotty gone?
Has he been enveloped in a black hole of fear? Am I thinking of the right chap?When the government inevitably f
k us over in the coming weeks then I'm sure this thread will go into overdrive again. I do have a funny skit though, one of my mates is the biggest virtue signaller going, even if he thinks the vaccine might kill him he will still have it just so he can wear the t-shirt. He was going on about masks and saying anyone who doesn't wear one now is a total and utter tt so I asked him why he wasn't too bothered about wiping a few people out a few years ago when he got done for DD after doing 50mph down the pavement after leaving a night club. He has also been done for DD again more recently "the morning after".Its a strange old world.
Issuing a vaccine passport, we are talking yellow card type, is a very simple process for the Government. They have your details on computer and only have to run a simple program to mail everyone who has had both doses a confirmation card. Might as well be a purple card as that seems to be a favourite colour for depicting the virus. It's all already decided despite the prevarications and denials from the Government.
Boringvolvodriver said:
I can understand that logic although are you happy to have a vaccine that hasn’t been given full approval yet and where the manufacturers have not yet accepted liability for any potential issues that may arise during what is, in my opinion, effectively an extended trial period until 2023?
yep, I can live with that risk about the vaccine. Wasn't too bothered about getting covid, even less bothered about the vaccine related risk either given the current data. if antibody depdendent enhancement or risk of the vaccine was significant given the numbers of people getting vaccinated there would have been at least some obvious sign of it by now as trials started by mid last year. There might of course be some much longer term risk that might show up at some point but again same as the point about living with covid, I'm not looking to completely minimise risk. As this point imo it's acceptable esp wrt to travel hassle with my parents living overseas. I absolutely don't think it should be mandated but there are enough vested interests to ensure it almost certainly will in some form and the tradeoff is such as I said it's not the hill I think is worth dying on for now.
Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 6th March 20:44
Douglas Quaid said:
I’m forgoing foreign holidays this year too. I’ll see what happens once the vaccines have passed the trial periods in 2023 and are no longer experimental then will make a decision.
fk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule. The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
EddieSteadyGo said:
fk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule.
The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
Agree- 60 just had first jab- I want to start travelling again and start living again. Booked two lots of flightsk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule. The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
craig1912 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
fk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule.
The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
Agree- 60 just had first jab- I want to start travelling again and start living again. Booked two lots of flightsk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule. The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
amgmcqueen said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
Having the jab won't allow you to do those things though will it?In fact we seem to be getting stricter with travel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk...
My hunch is they reckon that they are in with a chance of zero covid this Summer. With a vaccine, seasonality, testing anything that has a pulse and T&T they could do a New Zealand or Isle of Man...........
craig1912 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
fk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule.
The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
Agree- 60 just had first jab- I want to start travelling again and start living again. Booked two lots of flightsk that. I've got a years worth of living to catch back up on. Risk from covid is small, but the risk of the vaccine is miniscule. The moment I get the invite, I'm getting the jab. I'm desperate to get back skiing, to travel to somewhere interesting, and start living again.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff