CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

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RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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This HugoTalks video on 'vaccine passports' picks up a couple of the points raised by 2gins and funkyrobot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02HRKcLHIjU



It's looking specifically at the Israel example, who are trying to actively limit activities (including the ability to work and get paid) for those who are not vaccinated, to allow access to 'supermarkets and pharmacies only'.



(I see that 'Permanent' now actually means 'six months' rolleyes )


There's an interesting comment in the article referenced / read out in the video, detailing a 77 year old who was jabbed and thought life would go back to normal:

https://www.jta.org/2021/02/12/israel/as-most-isra...

article said:
...
He received his “green passport” ...

But nearly one month later ... Livny still must obey the country’s strict lockdown measures, which bar everyone from a wide range of leisure activities whether or not they’ve been vaccinated.
...


I thought it would be a passport to health and a passport to freedom,” Livny said. “Now they say they’re not sure the vaccine works against the British variant or the South African variant. Then I thought it would be a passport for travel. But now if I want to travel, I need to do a test 72 hours before I leave and then when I come back I need to do it again. So what good does it do me?
Seems to echo the comments already noted on here - what's the point of a vaccine passport? Or a vaccination itself if under 50??

danllama

5,728 posts

141 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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ruggedscotty said:
danllama said:
To anyone:

If you think lockdowns and restrictions to our basic human rights are justified now or ever you're mental.
define your basic human rights..... can you ?
A good base line is being allowed to see your family and friends freely and go outside as much as you like.

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Passengers flying into Canada will be forced to pay $2,000 to stay at a hotel for at least three nights until they get negative COVID test results back, Justin Trudeau announces

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254847/A...


RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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British scientists develop new saliva test for Covid-19 that is 'simpler and easier than nasal swabs' and could make testing at home a reality

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-92...

I'm not sure how testing at home is a reality when the graphic seems to suggest a 95degree C process, but...

I will not comment on the massive DNA harvesting potential for isaldiri's sake winktongue out

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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This is potentially good news... (ignoring the scope creep to 'over-50s'):


"Government scientific advisers say UK may need to debate on whether to let Covid rip and cause a 'big wave' once all over-50s have been vaccinated"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254105/C...

DM said:
Many scientists say a rise in infections in under-50s would have little effect on NHS hospitals because they are not at risk of falling severely ill or dying.

Mike Tildesley, an academic at the University of Warwick and also a member of SPI-M said: 'It’s possible you could run hot in terms of cases, and low in terms of number of hospitalisations and deaths.'

He said having a high R number would not necessarily be a bad thing, so long as the current crop of vaccines keep hospitalisations remain low.

grombot

80 posts

142 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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RSTurboPaul said:
I will not comment on the massive DNA harvesting potential for isaldiri's sake winktongue out
Some familiar names in here!: Big Pharma Would Like Your DNA

isaldiri

18,418 posts

167 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/12/e...

Well if even Neil Ferguson thinks we're pointed back to normality sooner than later I wonder if that might persuade some of the forever nothing will be normal types to reconsider that possibility......


RSbandit

2,590 posts

131 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Just watching the film 'Outbreak'...it's just amateur hour tbh rule of six and pubs closing at 10pm would have knocked the Motaba virus on its arse...pandemic response and suppression has come a long way in 26 yrs 😅

Brainpox

4,054 posts

150 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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RSTurboPaul said:
This is potentially good news... (ignoring the scope creep to 'over-50s'):


"Government scientific advisers say UK may need to debate on whether to let Covid rip and cause a 'big wave' once all over-50s have been vaccinated"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254105/C...

DM said:
Many scientists say a rise in infections in under-50s would have little effect on NHS hospitals because they are not at risk of falling severely ill or dying.

Mike Tildesley, an academic at the University of Warwick and also a member of SPI-M said: 'It’s possible you could run hot in terms of cases, and low in terms of number of hospitalisations and deaths.'

He said having a high R number would not necessarily be a bad thing, so long as the current crop of vaccines keep hospitalisations remain low.
A few weeks ago, a 10 year old girl near where I live died of covid. Obviously she would not have qualified for the vaccine.

You can imagine the headlines if what they are proposing was to go ahead.

Long covid is still a serious issue, too. I work with a few people who had a mild illness, but the brain fog and fatigue have persisted for months.

isaldiri

18,418 posts

167 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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RSbandit said:
Just watching the film 'Outbreak'...it's just amateur hour tbh rule of six and pubs closing at 10pm would have knocked the Motaba virus on its arse...pandemic response and suppression has come a long way in 26 yrs ??
Well I think it'll be a little bit optimistic to hope that the head of PHE would look like the then 40 year old Rene Russo...... but perhaps lucky Hancock watched Contagion rather than Outbreak so he didn't get inspired to bomb out kent/London to contain the super transmissive B117 I suppose.

DukeDickson

4,721 posts

212 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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isaldiri said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/12/e...

Well if even Neil Ferguson thinks we're pointed back to normality sooner than later I wonder if that might persuade some of the forever nothing will be normal types to reconsider that possibility......
He's hedging, nothing more or less & has decided on a moderately vociferous path, for now. Probably wise given his track record.
He's also passed the baton on to the next leg of the one dimensional mob.

Somewhat more alarming is that soon YouGov has to make a choice between continued panic and the harsh realities of life Vs political persuasions, 'the science', self-interest and rather a lot of we might just have been here once or twice before.

Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets




Sahjahd

420 posts

44 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Thin White Duke said:
Volume 10. And still it goes on.

Is the cure worse than the disease? Hell yes.
Again, I feel the need to point out that nothing has provided a cure; all that has been achieved is the emergence of megalomania among politicians, NHS staff, police, and some other public sector employees, and of course the enrichment of BJ's, HJ's & Shapps cronies in the PPE, government contract, and now hotel lines of business, at the expense of an unknown number of additional deaths from untreated illnesses, suicide, damaged physical and mental health, ruined prospects for younger people, eventual destitution and homelessness for some.



Pit Pony

8,268 posts

120 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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At present, my feelings and emotions are struggling with logic.

On the one hand, people who hardly ever go out, the vulnerable and old have died and are dying...

They are being infected by who.....younger fitter people.....Who mostly are not impacted by it much.

Some are, and with a wife who has ME, post viral chronic fatigue, I'm aware how life changing that is.

But mostly the old...dying because they are old and can't fight off a new strain of a virus...but lots of them..

On the other hand, young people. The futyre, have thier lives on hold, are suffering mental health and developmental issues. And the economy. Highest unemployment for a long time...

The personal impact to those around me has been significant. A friend whose cancer diagnosis came too late, a nephew who gone proper fking loopy, a son whose put his wedding on hold, me loosing work, but when once back in work struggling to be effective whilst home working.
Not seing family for a year.

And now after spending months being paranoid about infecting the older family members, having to ring an ambulance on the advice of a heart specialist who saw Covid on a CT scan of her lungs, and not being able to be there or visit, and having to discuss a not for resuscitation write up. And not knowing when I wake up if she'll be dead or alive.

I've a daughter who works in a hospital which has been crazy for 11 months. Staff proper sick and tired of the relentless of it, and she split up with her boyfriend of 8 years as being in a one bed flat with him a no outside outlet really got started to show the cracks.


I'm proper fking fed up...yes lots of people are dying, lots of people are affected by thier loss of freedoms, including me. Yes restrictions have and.impactnon jobs and the economy. I don't have the answer.

I think somewhere in hindsight, this could have been a less severe problem, and could have been solved alot earlier, but it wasn't.

On the plus side, daughter seems happier than she's been for a long time..being single and living alone in a lock down, seems to have improved her happiness.


jimPH

3,981 posts

79 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Daughter gets a call to go back to school Wednesday. Break up Friday for half term!

Brainpox

4,054 posts

150 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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I think people commenting about delayed diagnoses/poor healthcare need to realise if the restrictions weren't in place, the hospitals would be full and the same would apply. Probably even more so as emergency departments would be closing. At least for the most part, if you have been critically unwell, there has been capacity in the system to sort you out.

Locally, at the peak last month, 40% of the patients in the general hospitals had COVID, and most were in primarily because of COVID complications. Some hospitals were over 60%. Seasonal flu doesn't account for that many patients normally.

It might affect younger people less severely but there are some where it isn't the case. A 10 year old girl died of COVID nearby a few weeks ago. You can't gamble with people's lives because you're desperate to get down the pub.

I am happy that I've maintained a sense of normality through this in that I still go to work. But I spend half my day in close contact with COVID patients. I haven't caught it yet which leads me, at times, to wonder how the fk everyone else is.

Dominic Cummings' eye exam was a really stupid mistake. If it wasn't for that I'm sure compliance would have been much better.

Brainpox

4,054 posts

150 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
You sound mental. Operations are delayed because there are no staff to perform them, or space to recover, or treat patients if there are procedural complications. Yes the 10 year old (and her mother two weeks after) died of covid.

Patients were catching covid in hospitals because there are so many 'red' patients there isn't enough space to segregate them from 'green' properly. Screening at the door was unreliable, you have to wait for a test result - which could still be wrong. So A&E departments were made 'amber', with patients mixing, so staff could try treating patients rather than endlessly move them around. That's how bad it was.

You haven't got a clue, honestly. If you're sick of being stuck at home, covid wards are still after bank staff.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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soofsayer said:
Bikesalot said:
Alucidnation said:
I was a volunteer driver and transported around 60 people to the vaccination centres who had no means of transport locally, and they were all pleased they were able to get their vaccine and were looking forward to getting things back to normal.

All in all it's been a very positive experience.
You should genuinely be proud of that. I understand it was quite hard for many vulnerable to get to their appointments without the help of others. In my local community there have been a few offering them same service.
+1
Cheers guys,

To be completely honest, the first day i was wondering in the back of my mind why I was bothering as i thought it would make no difference to those I was transporting as like before, something will happen to make hmg change their minds again but after spending time with the people, I was seeing the positivity it was bringing.


Douglas Quaid

2,271 posts

84 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Brainpox said:
I think people commenting about delayed diagnoses/poor healthcare need to realise if the restrictions weren't in place, the hospitals would be full and the same would apply. Probably even more so as emergency departments would be closing. At least for the most part, if you have been critically unwell, there has been capacity in the system to sort you out.

Locally, at the peak last month, 40% of the patients in the general hospitals had COVID, and most were in primarily because of COVID complications. Some hospitals were over 60%. Seasonal flu doesn't account for that many patients normally.

It might affect younger people less severely but there are some where it isn't the case. A 10 year old girl died of COVID nearby a few weeks ago. You can't gamble with people's lives because you're desperate to get down the pub.

I am happy that I've maintained a sense of normality through this in that I still go to work. But I spend half my day in close contact with COVID patients. I haven't caught it yet which leads me, at times, to wonder how the fk everyone else is.

Dominic Cummings' eye exam was a really stupid mistake. If it wasn't for that I'm sure compliance would have been much better.
Why is it that people that enjoy restrictions always say that the people that don’t just want life back to normal so they can go ‘to the pub’? I don’t give a st about the pub, I enjoy them but far far more important to me are the people I know that are suffering mentally through isolation.

I have friends I haven’t seen for nearly a year as they’re terrified, I have self employed family members that have lost their businesses and have no way of earning money, some of my family members are really suffering mentally in various ways. Why is it that you people who want everyone locked up forever think the pub is all anyone is interested in? fk off.

Edited by Douglas Quaid on Saturday 13th February 07:16

Brainpox

4,054 posts

150 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Douglas Quaid said:
Why is it that people that enjoy restrictions always say that the people that don’t just want life back to normal so they can go ‘to the pub’? I don’t give a st about the pub, I enjoy them but far far more important to me are the people I know that are suffering mentally through isolation. I have friends I haven’t seen for nearly a year as they’re terrified, I have self employed family members that have lost their businesses and have no way of earning money, some of my family members are really suffering mentally in various ways. Why is it that you people who want everyone locked up forever think the pub is all anyone is interested in? fk off.
Who said I'm enjoying it? fk off yourself. The answer isn't to let everyone run wild and not give a st. Keeping the health service running is more of a priority don't you think? Think bigger picture.

V8 Stang

4,381 posts

182 months

Saturday 13th February 2021
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Brainpox said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You sound mental. Operations are delayed because there are no staff to perform them, or space to recover, or treat patients if there are procedural complications. Yes the 10 year old (and her mother two weeks after) died of covid.

Patients were catching covid in hospitals because there are so many 'red' patients there isn't enough space to segregate them from 'green' properly. Screening at the door was unreliable, you have to wait for a test result - which could still be wrong. So A&E departments were made 'amber', with patients mixing, so staff could try treating patients rather than endlessly move them around. That's how bad it was.

You haven't got a clue, honestly. If you're sick of being stuck at home, covid wards are still after bank staff.
Yet they have the staff for non critical operations!

A colleague at work's wife had a boob job operation completed this week. Which i find staggering, while all these people with life critical operations are cancelled....

I wonder if its something to do with it was a paid for operation.............
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