2021 Budget Predictions

[youngsyr]

If a company has invested a significant amount in this fiscal year, but has a 31 May year end, do we know if it will benefit from the Superdeduction, will it be pro-rated, or not available at all?

[Harry H]

S17Thumper said:

TTmonkey said:

Starmer is grasping.

At first (when he became leader) he looked like he could maybe sway me, but the more he speaks the less he says.

He's finished as a leader before he's even got going.

[PeteinSQ]

S17Thumper said:

At first (when he became leader) he looked like he could maybe sway me, but the more he speaks the less he says.

I'm not listening to him but I do feel that he's on a very difficult wicket as leader of the opposition. Everyone can see the economy is in trouble and the government is actually being pretty good on spending money, which under George Osbourne was something that Labour could attack them on. How as the labour party do you accuse the government of not spending enough money on things when the national debt has ballooned and they're extending furlough etc?

You're left with how they managed the pandemic which may be really badly, but it's actually quite difficult to prove conclusively.

[youngsyr]

RichB said:

apologise for contributing to that thread however, I totally disagree that it's a bad budget for business.

I think I'd describe it as: could have been much worse for business.

Taxes have to go up, there's no doubt there. They could have hammered businesses a lot more. Quite impressed at the amount of investment "carrots" compare to the number of tax increase "sticks".

Using fiscal drag was a clever idea too.

[youngsyr]

Scootersp said:

Also I'd argue no company can really gripe too much if they've received furlough funds.........at least until the extra tax they end up paying exceeds the amount received?

That's a bit one-sided, IMO.

Companies only received furlough grants if they put employees on furlough, i.e. they weren't working for them, more often than not because the government made it illegal to operate.

The companies could have fired their employees and not taken any furlough grants. Those grants weren't purely for the companies' benefit, or even mostly.

[PeteinSQ]

ant1973 said:

It's just politics and one of those things as you say. I am absolutely fine and will be in the future. No one cares about business paying more tax. Until it affects them...

From the outside looking in though my sympathy for you would depend on what opportunities is that going to cost you personally. When there are loads of people out of work etc if the difference this makes to you is that you can only go grouse shooting once and not twice (as a deliberately ridiculous example) I'm not going to be that sorry for you.

This budget will cost me a bit as the tax thresholds are being frozen, but it's money I can afford to pay, I'll just save a little bit less.

[S17Thumper]

The no reply from Rishi was a bit of a middle finger

[ant1973]

youngsyr said:

RichB said:

apologise for contributing to that thread however, I totally disagree that it's a bad budget for business.

I think I'd describe it as: could have been much worse for business.

Taxes have to go up, there's no doubt there. They could have hammered businesses a lot more. Quite impressed at the amount of investment "carrots" compare to the number of tax increase "sticks".

Using fiscal drag was a clever idea too.

6% increase in CT is pretty chunky! How much worse could it have been? The super deduction is for two years only.

[ant1973]

PeteinSQ said:

ant1973 said:

It's just politics and one of those things as you say. I am absolutely fine and will be in the future. No one cares about business paying more tax. Until it affects them...

From the outside looking in though my sympathy for you would depend on what opportunities is that going to cost you personally. When there are loads of people out of work etc if the difference this makes to you is that you can only go grouse shooting once and not twice (as a deliberately ridiculous example) I'm not going to be that sorry for you.

This budget will cost me a bit as the tax thresholds are being frozen, but it's money I can afford to pay, I'll just save a little bit less.

Not asking for sympathy. No one cares about someone else paying more tax.

[valiant]

As I predicted earlier, no big changes whilst the pandemic continues with changes coming in at a later date. Bit of a damp squib really and I continue to say that the next 2022 budget will be the interesting one.

[poordecisions]

ant1973 said:

It's just politics and one of those things as you say. I am absolutely fine and will be in the future. No one cares about business paying more tax. Until it affects them...

It affects my business to the tune of £10-20k per year, but we received a cash grant in March and furlough money (couple of grand a month) for a few months, so it seems right to pay it back.

Lots of business owners will throw the cash into a pension anyway and drag the profit right down, so it is what it is.

[Rollin]

Were there any CGT changes?

[poordecisions]

youngsyr said:

If a company has invested a significant amount in this fiscal year, but has a 31 May year end, do we know if it will benefit from the Superdeduction, will it be pro-rated, or not available at all?

It’s from 2023, so this year doesn’t really effect things

[PeteinSQ]

ant1973 said:

6% increase in CT is pretty chunky! How much worse could it have been? The super deduction is for two years only.

Corporation tax in Germany is 29.9%, France it's 32.02%, Italy 27.81%, USA 25.77%.

Yes it's a big increase but compared to other markets you're only seeing it brought into line.

[youngsyr]

ant1973 said:

youngsyr said:

RichB said:

apologise for contributing to that thread however, I totally disagree that it's a bad budget for business.

I think I'd describe it as: could have been much worse for business.

Taxes have to go up, there's no doubt there. They could have hammered businesses a lot more. Quite impressed at the amount of investment "carrots" compare to the number of tax increase "sticks".

Using fiscal drag was a clever idea too.

6% increase in CT is pretty chunky! How much worse could it have been? The super deduction is for two years only.

Oh definitely, but how many companies are actually going to be paying the higher rate, given the amount of losses this year and the state of the economy over the next two years?

And if you are earning enough to be paying it, then you should have a significant amount of excess cash and you can drastically reduce your tax bill by investing.

So like I said, there's a big stick, but also pretty big carrots.

[plasticpig]

ant1973 said:

6% increase in CT is pretty chunky! How much worse could it have been? The super deduction is for two years only.

From a historical point of view CT is still very low at 25%

[ant1973]

youngsyr said:

ant1973 said:

youngsyr said:

RichB said:

apologise for contributing to that thread however, I totally disagree that it's a bad budget for business.

I think I'd describe it as: could have been much worse for business.

Taxes have to go up, there's no doubt there. They could have hammered businesses a lot more. Quite impressed at the amount of investment "carrots" compare to the number of tax increase "sticks".

Using fiscal drag was a clever idea too.

6% increase in CT is pretty chunky! How much worse could it have been? The super deduction is for two years only.

Oh definitely, but how many companies are actually going to be paying the higher rate, given the amount of losses this year and the state of the economy over the next two years?

And if you are earning enough to be paying it, then you should have a significant amount of excess cash and you can drastically reduce your tax bill by investing.

So like I said, there's a big stick, but also pretty big carrots.

Will need to see whether cars are included

[ITP]

Rollin said:

Were there any CGT changes?

I was wondering this too.
Not heard media even mentioning it, which is odd, even if there is no change. No change would be news, as CGT is a high profile subject for individuals.

[Venisonpie]

poordecisions said:

It affects my business to the tune of £10-20k per year, but we received a cash grant in March and furlough money (couple of grand a month) for a few months, so it seems right to pay it back.

Lots of business owners will throw the cash into a pension anyway and drag the profit right down, so it is what it is.

Exactly, reduce tax exposure by investing or increasing other cash buckets. I think this is really the point.

[bloomen]

Rollin said:

Were there any CGT changes?

The only mention is an allowance freeze until 2026. That's rather better than another 20 per cent.