Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)

[crankedup]

crankedup said:

Mortarboard said:

blueg33 said:

jsf said:

5 years on and you are still about the referendum and still not understanding the majority who voted leave, did so for a multitude of reasons.

Indeed many reasons. What I am trying to flush out is the reasons that had merit and were properly understood.

Sadly I know of people who voted leave whose reasoning was that the EU invented VAT.

I accept that we are out, but I don’t have to accept that a lot of the reasons given were bogus.

Interestingly the same newspapers have moved onto Meghan Markle, using the same tactics of misinformation and negative spin which manipulated the way people think.

I am sure we are all affected to one degree or another. The difference between people is that some challenge it and reach their own conclusions, others just accept.

Conversely, I'd say there was a significant cohort of voters who wanted to leave, but voted remain as they thought the likelihood of the government making a success of it was slim to none.

M.

Evidence please.

Still waiting .

[Mortarboard]

crankedup said:

Still waiting .

To can play that game aaaaalllll day Cranked.

Evidence to the contrary please.

Still waiting.

M.

[DeepEnd]

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Still waiting .

To can play that game aaaaalllll day Cranked.

Evidence to the contrary please.

Still waiting.

M.

Do you think the evidence of immigration not materially affecting wages has led to the rethink over swarming invaders?

[Mortarboard]

DeepEnd said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Still waiting .

To can play that game aaaaalllll day Cranked.

Evidence to the contrary please.

Still waiting.

M.

Do you think the evidence of immigration not materially affecting wages has led to the rethink over swarming invaders?

Of course not (to the tribal "contributors" to this part of the "debate"). It's cure contrarianism.

Perhaps a more pertinent question might be - with the new ability to target immigration into the UK, what might the UK decide to do re:trade immigration to improve house building rates?

A previous poster said that major projects like T5, etc. can limit the availability of trades. Perhaps something like the temporary work visas that Australia uses might help.

M.

[Murph7355]

rockin said:

Murph7355 said:

I don't think I've denigrated others for their choice before...apart from possibly their choice to whine about a result 5yrs ago and replay the same old arguments

It's curious that those who apparently "got what they wanted" remain so incredibly unsatisfied.

I guess some will be.

Personally, ignoring the dumb May/Robbins period, I'm cool with proceedings thus far and look forward to seeing what we can do with it

[Murph7355]

crankedup said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Evidence please.

I know this may come as a shock for you, but lots of folks think that the government (ANY government) couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery, never mind negotiate a successful Brexit and manage the "new normal" in a competent manner.

If you need "evidence" for that, I suggest talking to people in real life.

M.

I invite you to join the real World, look at the last GE results and ask yourself one question :
is it me or them

Mortarboard in general on this is on the money IMO.

This is why removing a layer of government was the biggest reason to leave the EU.

EU politicians are no better than the ones we get to vote into power. I would argue that they are a good degree worse - many have failed on home turf, and we have the "benefit" of watching their behaviour over the last couple of months (if any further proof were really required).

We need the fewest possible number of politicians in our lives. We need the ones we must have (I am under no illusion they are a necessary evil) as close to us, the people they serve, as they can be. Politicians themselves prefer the exact opposite, which is precisely why we should want it.

[Fittster]

Brexit brings pain for UK vintage watch dealers

Tax on imports of stock from EU eats into already slim profit margins for British traders


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https://www.ft.com/content/b0bf47ab-e8b8-4f95-983d-1a56ffa4df52


Rachael Taylor APRIL 10 2021
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It was on Christmas Eve that Britain’s vintage watch dealers learnt their traditional trading route had been, in effect, cut off. Just as they were sending out their final festive orders, many to the EU, the news came that they had been left out of the post-Brexit value added tax margin scheme.

This scheme has long been vital to the UK’s pre-owned watch market, allowing dealers who survive on wafer-thin profit margins to pay a reduced VAT rate on profit, rather than a product’s total value. Second-hand watch dealers in the UK have historically done the bulk of their sourcing in mainland Europe because it offers a wealth of supply and lower prices.

But this way of doing business is now under threat, as watches bought from the EU from January 1 are subject to a 20 per cent import tax. Once paid, this excludes the goods from the margin scheme, meaning dealers then have to charge 20 per cent VAT on the full price of the watch, making it more expensive for the consumer and less lucrative for the dealer.

Mike Viney, an independent dealer and founder of Vine Auctioneers, says the new regime has caused him to cease trading with his regular EU-based suppliers. “The ability to sell under the margin scheme makes a huge difference for pre-owned watches, because so little profit margin exists in what is now a very competitive market,” explains Viney, whose margin could be as little as £200 per watch before Brexit.

“It makes it almost impossible to sell a pre-owned watch competitively. Watches like Rolex have an internationally recognised value, with not much price difference whether you are buying from the UK or EU. So being forced to effectively charge 20 per cent more on watches that you have sourced from the EU is a real problem.”

Pre-owned online luxury retailer Xupes — which sells watches, jewellery, handbags and art from its Hertfordshire base — estimates it previously sourced 30 per cent of its goods under the margin scheme from the EU. The company had strong sales in Europe and opened a base in the Netherlands in 2019. Before Brexit, stock could flow freely between the two offices, incurring only postage of about £50 per watch. Now, it faces having to keep two separate stock holdings, further complicated by the fact that its watch service centre is in the UK.


https://www.ft.com/content/b0bf47ab-e8b8-4f95-983d...

[chrispmartha]

DeepEnd said:

Do you think the evidence of immigration not materially affecting wages has led to the rethink over swarming invaders?

I doubt it, cranked is keen on evidence but he’s been given a few bits of evidence lately that seem to debunk a couple of his main reasons for voting leave - (wages and apprenticeship numbers) maybe he should ask the question is it me or is it them? ;-)

[dai1983]

chrispmartha said:

I doubt it, cranked is keen on evidence but he’s been given a few bits of evidence lately that seem to debunk a couple of his main reasons for voting leave - (wages and apprenticeship numbers) maybe he should ask the question is it me or is it them? ;-)

Everyone's pissing in the wind with him. I remember his thread on German coal usage and he was provided way lower figures than what he claimed with no source but wouldn't have it. He even claimed his figures again recently.

[Adenauer]

It was all going so well.

We've probably had something like 8 or 9 trucks over from the UK since the beginning of January without any problems.

Not anymore though, Truck loaded in the UK last Tuesday and had problems leaving Dover as there was an error on the T1 form. He was let through a day later (late Wednesday evening) and crossed. Arrived in Germany on Thursday and has been sat at the customs office there, 50 kms up the road from me, ever since.

Marvelous.

[Pan Pan Pan]

It will take time before the new situation is understood, just like when the UK was taken into the EU, without a vote for its citizens on the matter.
I remember the fuss that was made over all the EU red tape, and paperwork that businesses in the UK had to change to, and get used to. Not forgetting the butter mountains and wine lakes, and straight banana nonsenses that being in the EU kicked up. (and many other areas of legislative change that took place and had to be taken on board and got used to).
Just a matter of time before the dust settles, li, and ke it has done before. until something else happens that we all have to get used to, comes along. Nothing to see here, move along.

[chrispmartha]

Pan Pan Pan said:

It will take time before the new situation is understood, just like when the UK was taken into the EU, without a vote for its citizens on the matter.
I remember the fuss that was made over all the EU red tape, and paperwork that businesses in the UK had to change to, and get used to. Not forgetting the butter mountains and wine lakes, and straight banana nonsenses that being in the EU kicked up. (and many other areas of legislative change that took place and had to be taken on board and got used to).
Just a matter of time before the dust settles, li, and ke it has done before. until something else happens that we all have to get used to, comes along. Nothing to see here, move along.

How old were you when the UK joined the EU?

[crankedup]

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Evidence please.

I know this may come as a shock for you, but lots of folks think that the government (ANY government) couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery, never mind negotiate a successful Brexit and manage the "new normal" in a competent manner.

If you need "evidence" for that, I suggest talking to people in real life.

M.

People like you

[Mrr T]

chrispmartha said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

It will take time before the new situation is understood, just like when the UK was taken into the EU, without a vote for its citizens on the matter.
I remember the fuss that was made over all the EU red tape, and paperwork that businesses in the UK had to change to, and get used to. Not forgetting the butter mountains and wine lakes, and straight banana nonsenses that being in the EU kicked up. (and many other areas of legislative change that took place and had to be taken on board and got used to).
Just a matter of time before the dust settles, li, and ke it has done before. until something else happens that we all have to get used to, comes along. Nothing to see here, move along.

How old were you when the UK joined the EU?

He is now joining tb in claiming joining the EU caused major problems for British industry. The problem there is no evidence this was the case. So likely just making it up.

I would hope after all these years everyone know straight bananas is nothing to do with the EU. But no.

[crankedup]

dai1983 said:

chrispmartha said:

I doubt it, cranked is keen on evidence but he’s been given a few bits of evidence lately that seem to debunk a couple of his main reasons for voting leave - (wages and apprenticeship numbers) maybe he should ask the question is it me or is it them? ;-)

Everyone's pissing in the wind with him. I remember his thread on German coal usage and he was provided way lower figures than what he claimed with no source but wouldn't have it. He even claimed his figures again recently.

Filthy coal burners like Germany, do you actually support that? OK my numbers may be incorrect but not so much as to debunk the point made.They burn filthy coal to gain a advantage over competitors, the EC turn a blind eye.But you and others in here would rather attack the numbers I state, not the filthy, moral and unethical use of the fuel?

[chrispmartha]

crankedup said:

dai1983 said:

chrispmartha said:

I doubt it, cranked is keen on evidence but he’s been given a few bits of evidence lately that seem to debunk a couple of his main reasons for voting leave - (wages and apprenticeship numbers) maybe he should ask the question is it me or is it them? ;-)

Everyone's pissing in the wind with him. I remember his thread on German coal usage and he was provided way lower figures than what he claimed with no source but wouldn't have it. He even claimed his figures again recently.

Filthy coal burners like Germany, do you actually support that? OK my numbers may be incorrect but not so much as to debunk the point made.They burn filthy coal to gain a advantage over competitors, the EC turn a blind eye.But you and others in here would rather attack the numbers I state, not the filthy, moral and unethical use of the fuel?

But you seem to consistently get your numbers/facts incorrect, that's why people are pulling you up on it it seems.

If you have to make up facts to prove your point suggests your point isn't a particularly convincing one in the first place.

[blueg33]

crankedup said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Evidence please.

I know this may come as a shock for you, but lots of folks think that the government (ANY government) couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery, never mind negotiate a successful Brexit and manage the "new normal" in a competent manner.

If you need "evidence" for that, I suggest talking to people in real life.

M.

People like you

On the 5th April Governments approval rating was 36% That suggests that the majority don't approve, you could then hypothesize that that is because there are concerns about their competency.

On another poll - albeit a small sample, the question is "How well do you think that the Government is handling Brexit - well gets 34% badly gets 49%

[crankedup]

Mrr T said:

chrispmartha said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

It will take time before the new situation is understood, just like when the UK was taken into the EU, without a vote for its citizens on the matter.
I remember the fuss that was made over all the EU red tape, and paperwork that businesses in the UK had to change to, and get used to. Not forgetting the butter mountains and wine lakes, and straight banana nonsenses that being in the EU kicked up. (and many other areas of legislative change that took place and had to be taken on board and got used to).
Just a matter of time before the dust settles, li, and ke it has done before. until something else happens that we all have to get used to, comes along. Nothing to see here, move along.

How old were you when the UK joined the EU?

He is now joining tb in claiming joining the EU caused major problems for British industry. The problem there is no evidence this was the case. So likely just making it up.

I would hope after all these years everyone know straight bananas is nothing to do with the EU. But no.

Not as bad as your plagiarism straight from Google that you were caught out recently, you need to be careful when throwing stones in glass houses.

[blueg33]

Pan Pan Pan said:

It will take time before the new situation is understood, just like when the UK was taken into the EU, without a vote for its citizens on the matter.
I remember the fuss that was made over all the EU red tape, and paperwork that businesses in the UK had to change to, and get used to. Not forgetting the butter mountains and wine lakes, and straight banana nonsenses that being in the EU kicked up. (and many other areas of legislative change that took place and had to be taken on board and got used to).
Just a matter of time before the dust settles, li, and ke it has done before. until something else happens that we all have to get used to, comes along. Nothing to see here, move along.

Pretty sure that the alphabetical list of bullst about the EU I posted yesterday includes things like bananas - proven to be incorrect, just the media misleading you

[crankedup]

blueg33 said:

crankedup said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup said:

Evidence please.

I know this may come as a shock for you, but lots of folks think that the government (ANY government) couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery, never mind negotiate a successful Brexit and manage the "new normal" in a competent manner.

If you need "evidence" for that, I suggest talking to people in real life.

M.

People like you

On the 5th April Governments approval rating was 36% That suggests that the majority don't approve, you could then hypothesize that that is because there are concerns about their competency.

On another poll - albeit a small sample, the question is "How well do you think that the Government is handling Brexit - well gets 34% badly gets 49%

Fair enough and thanks for going to the trouble.