Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)

[techguyone]

Jazzy Jag said:

That's it!

I'm not going to book my 2 week holiday in the Bahamas this year.

£2 a day for roaming?
They're taking the piss!

If only hotels and restaurants etc had Wifi

Quite

In addition to that.

Anyone who thinks the mobile phone operators provide this for free are deluded - roaming fees are just hidden within your monthly fee, which pretty universally went up when the EU Regulation was introduced.

And you have to remember that the VAST MAJORITY of UK mobile phone users only use them within the UK.

So this same majority are paying for something (albeit hidden within their monthly fee) that they do not need.

[SpeckledJim]

techguyone said:

Jazzy Jag said:

That's it!

I'm not going to book my 2 week holiday in the Bahamas this year.

£2 a day for roaming?
They're taking the piss!

If only hotels and restaurants etc had Wifi

Quite

In addition to that.

Anyone who thinks the mobile phone operators provide this for free are deluded - roaming fees are just hidden within your monthly fee, which pretty universally went up when the EU Regulation was introduced.

And you have to remember that the VAST MAJORITY of UK mobile phone users only use them within the UK.

So this same majority are paying for something ... that they do not need.

The EU in a nutshell.

[FiF]

SpeckledJim said:

techguyone said:

Jazzy Jag said:

That's it!

I'm not going to book my 2 week holiday in the Bahamas this year.

£2 a day for roaming?
They're taking the piss!

If only hotels and restaurants etc had Wifi

Quite

In addition to that.

Anyone who thinks the mobile phone operators provide this for free are deluded - roaming fees are just hidden within your monthly fee, which pretty universally went up when the EU Regulation was introduced.

And you have to remember that the VAST MAJORITY of UK mobile phone users only use them within the UK.

So this same majority are paying for something ... that they do not need.

The EU in a nutshell.

Well yeah.

The rules required that required UK mobile customers who didn't travel to Europe to subsidise those that did.

In future, if you want to use a large amount of data abroad, you'll have to pay for it yourself. First world problems. Tough titty.

Just like for customers who do use large amounts of data in UK, they have to pay a bit more for it. Where's that tiny violin.

[blueg33]

crankedup5 said:

Welshbeef said:

crankedup5 said:

Tuna said:

ElectricSoup said:

I was hoping this thread would provide enlightenment on the subject of what is is that we are paying for with this drip drip drip of tangible costs, can't spot anything yet. .

Electric Soup in "I see no ships" shocker.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-575... - Up to half a billion to be invested in nuclear fusion research
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57312162 - Heinz to invest £140 million in food production plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57247758 - Nissan in talks to build battery plant in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/57580074 - UK Space agency backs launch of satellites to study climate change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842 - List of all the trade deals either rolled over or created since Brexit

I guess the drip drip drip of people trying to get on with their lives is easy to ignore...

Positive news is never available to those that prefer to seek out negative news.
As things are progressing I feel contentment and happiness that we are no longer part of the political drain.

Why do they search out the negative news?

I guess I’m guilty of that on the Summer 2021 Holidays thread where I kept linking latest changes and people oddly didn’t like seeing facts rather rose tinted -

Cant say why it is that the regulars in here constantly post negative brexit news whilst ignoring the good news. Perhaps those concerned could answer?

Cant say why it is that the regulars in here constantly post positive brexit news whilst ignoring the bad news. Perhaps those concerned could answer?

[ElectricSoup]

turbobloke said:

crankedup5 said:

Tuna said:

ElectricSoup said:

I was hoping this thread would provide enlightenment on the subject of what is is that we are paying for with this drip drip drip of tangible costs, can't spot anything yet. .

Electric Soup in "I see no ships" shocker.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-575... - Up to half a billion to be invested in nuclear fusion research
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57312162 - Heinz to invest £140 million in food production plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57247758 - Nissan in talks to build battery plant in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/57580074 - UK Space agency backs launch of satellites to study climate change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842 - List of all the trade deals either rolled over or created since Brexit

I guess the drip drip drip of people trying to get on with their lives is easy to ignore...

Positive news is never available to those that prefer to seek out negative news.
As things are progressing I feel contentment and happiness that we are no longer part of the political drain.

Definitely better out than in.

You people are quite, quite mad. You genuinely think these 5 stories provide costed evidence that the benefits of leaving outweigh the costs?

Absolutely 24-carat raving mental. Utter, utter denial of object reality.

[anonymous-user]

Conversely the rest of the sane population realise what an utter st show the EU is.

[Jazzy Jag]

digimeistter said:

Conversely the rest of the sane population realise what an utter st show the EU is.

Good post!

[crankedup5]

blueg33 said:

crankedup5 said:

Welshbeef said:

crankedup5 said:

Tuna said:

ElectricSoup said:

I was hoping this thread would provide enlightenment on the subject of what is is that we are paying for with this drip drip drip of tangible costs, can't spot anything yet. .

Electric Soup in "I see no ships" shocker.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-575... - Up to half a billion to be invested in nuclear fusion research
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57312162 - Heinz to invest £140 million in food production plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57247758 - Nissan in talks to build battery plant in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/57580074 - UK Space agency backs launch of satellites to study climate change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842 - List of all the trade deals either rolled over or created since Brexit

I guess the drip drip drip of people trying to get on with their lives is easy to ignore...

Positive news is never available to those that prefer to seek out negative news.
As things are progressing I feel contentment and happiness that we are no longer part of the political drain.

Why do they search out the negative news?

I guess I’m guilty of that on the Summer 2021 Holidays thread where I kept linking latest changes and people oddly didn’t like seeing facts rather rose tinted -

Cant say why it is that the regulars in here constantly post negative brexit news whilst ignoring the good news. Perhaps those concerned could answer?

Cant say why it is that the regulars in here constantly post positive brexit news whilst ignoring the bad news. Perhaps those concerned could answer?

Perhaps those people who look to a positive outcome are of a positive mindset able to see the advantages. Also simply being out of the EU club with its overreaching actions is enough to brighten 17.5 million persons lives each day.
It’s like the ‘losers’ can’t cope with democracy and change?

[ElectricSoup]

^^^^

I don’t know why I keep getting drawn into these threads. It really is a triumph of optimism that I genuinely believe the Leavers will start seeing the observable reality of the disastrous situation they’ve created, but I suppose 5 years into the Great Project you are all so wedded to your position that there’s just no hope that reality will penetrate your ideological bubble.

Nobody ever said the EU was wonderful and perfect and a shimmering vision of gold plated wholesomeness. But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

So like I say, I hope you're happy, lads, becuase millions aren't, thanks to your intransigence and lack of pragmatism. You've gained nothing, and millons have lost much, but OK, you're happy, because you didn't like the nasty EU Commission and its fat expenses tab or something. I hope you're delighted with the Vote Leave government you've given us, Boris's team's corruption and immorality, because so far as I can thell it's pretty much the deepest political swamp I've ever seen this side of Trump. Just one more thing to deny and ignore I guess. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Carry on boys and girls, carry on.

[andymadmak]

ElectricSoup said:

^^^^

I don’t know why I keep getting drawn into these threads. It really is a triumph of optimism that I genuinely believe the Leavers will start seeing the observable reality of the disastrous situation they’ve created, but I suppose 5 years into the Great Project you are all so wedded to your position that there’s just no hope that reality will penetrate your ideological bubble.

Nobody ever said the EU was wonderful and perfect and a shimmering vision of gold plated wholesomeness. But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

So like I say, I hope you're happy, lads, becuase millions aren't, thanks to your intransigence and lack of pragmatism. You've gained nothing, and millons have lost much, but OK, you're happy, because you didn't like the nasty EU Commission and its fat expenses tab or something. I hope you're delighted with the Vote Leave government you've given us, Boris's team's corruption and immorality, because so far as I can thell it's pretty much the deepest political swamp I've ever seen this side of Trump. Just one more thing to deny and ignore I guess. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Carry on boys and girls, carry on.

You sound angry

[anonymous-user]

crankedup5 said:

Perhaps those people who look to a positive outcome are of a positive mindset able to see the advantages. Also simply being out of the EU club with its overreaching actions is enough to brighten 17.5 million persons lives each day.
It’s like the ‘losers’ can’t cope with democracy and change?

Complaining about the EU for years and then voting for brexit to stop competition and “swarms of immigrants” doesn’t indicate you were in possession of a positive mindset to me.

Still complaining about the EU years after the referendum confirms this.

[SpeckledJim]

ElectricSoup said:

^^^^

I don’t know why I keep getting drawn into these threads. It really is a triumph of optimism that I genuinely believe the Leavers will start seeing the observable reality of the disastrous situation they’ve created, but I suppose 5 years into the Great Project you are all so wedded to your position that there’s just no hope that reality will penetrate your ideological bubble.

Nobody ever said the EU was wonderful and perfect and a shimmering vision of gold plated wholesomeness. But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

So like I say, I hope you're happy, lads, becuase millions aren't, thanks to your intransigence and lack of pragmatism. You've gained nothing, and millons have lost much, but OK, you're happy, because you didn't like the nasty EU Commission and its fat expenses tab or something. I hope you're delighted with the Vote Leave government you've given us, Boris's team's corruption and immorality, because so far as I can thell it's pretty much the deepest political swamp I've ever seen this side of Trump. Just one more thing to deny and ignore I guess. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Carry on boys and girls, carry on.

With an EU FTA in place, and with the freedom to do other FTAs with parts of the world that are growing quickly is around the least damaging fashion, isn't it?

I expect you think the prospect of the UK joining the TPP is a bad thing, since it was only made possible by Brexit?

[crankedup5]

ElectricSoup said:

^^^^

I don’t know why I keep getting drawn into these threads. It really is a triumph of optimism that I genuinely believe the Leavers will start seeing the observable reality of the disastrous situation they’ve created, but I suppose 5 years into the Great Project you are all so wedded to your position that there’s just no hope that reality will penetrate your ideological bubble.

Nobody ever said the EU was wonderful and perfect and a shimmering vision of gold plated wholesomeness. But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

So like I say, I hope you're happy, lads, becuase millions aren't, thanks to your intransigence and lack of pragmatism. You've gained nothing, and millons have lost much, but OK, you're happy, because you didn't like the nasty EU Commission and its fat expenses tab or something. I hope you're delighted with the Vote Leave government you've given us, Boris's team's corruption and immorality, because so far as I can thell it's pretty much the deepest political swamp I've ever seen this side of Trump. Just one more thing to deny and ignore I guess. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Carry on boys and girls, carry on.

After five years I can’t believe that some losers are still wedded to their unwavering messiah in the form of the EU. Why don’t you ask yourself why citizens in Germany are falling out of love with the EU political club? Yes Germany, the core of the club!!
We can of course dismiss a Government that we are dissatisfied with.

[768]

ElectricSoup said:

But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

Quick, someone sue a vaccine manufacturer in the middle of a pandemic so we can keep up.

[crankedup5]

El stovey said:

crankedup5 said:

Perhaps those people who look to a positive outcome are of a positive mindset able to see the advantages. Also simply being out of the EU club with its overreaching actions is enough to brighten 17.5 million persons lives each day.
It’s like the ‘losers’ can’t cope with democracy and change?

Complaining about the EU for years and then voting for brexit to stop competition and “swarms of immigrants” doesn’t indicate you were in possession of a positive mindset to me.

Still complaining about the EU years after the referendum confirms this.

Certainly the terrible situation of forced open borders was a absolute disaster for the Country, stopping that is a major reason for brexit. Now the Country can pick and choose from applicants who wish to live and work here, I can’t see what is wrong in that, …perhaps you can enlighten me?
Complaining about the EU is simply a mechanism of demonstrating to losers what they are unable/
unwilling to recognise.We have endured the EU against our wishes for forty years and now enjoy pointing out its failings to the worshippers.

[crankedup5]

768 said:

ElectricSoup said:

But to still believe we're doing "better", in any measurable way by having cut ourselves off in teh most damaging fashion is to display such boneheaded ignorance it beggars belief.

Quick, someone sue a vaccine manufacturer in the middle of a pandemic so we can keep up.

If ever a confirmation were needed this saga certainly provided all of the evidence required. Following that utter disgraceful behaviour it’s no wonder citizens across mainland Europe are coming over to reconsidering the values of the EU.

[JeffreyD]

The fundamental issue is that neither aside particularly cares about what the other cares about, and it's not going to change any time soon.

For example, Leavers don't care about the loss of FOM for UK citizens and remainers don't care about the sovereignty discussion. In fact each side derides the other for their position.

[silentbrown]

Earthdweller said:

The winners in all areas were anti EU right wing or hard right parties that are pushing for Frexit

Not sure why you think that.

I thought the big "winners" were centre-right Les Republicains. Macron got a pasting, but Le Pen's National Rally did badly too. The only came top of the first round in Provence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_French_regional...

It's "bellwether", BTW.

Earthdweller said:

France 24 said: <snip>

Quoting big chunks without proper link attribution seems to attract mods these days.

[andymadmak]

JeffreyD said:

The fundamental issue is that neither aside particularly cares about what the other cares about, and it's not going to change any time soon.

For example, Leavers don't care about the loss of FOM for UK citizens and remainers don't care about the sovereignty discussion. In fact each side derides the other for their position.

I think there is some truth to this. Both see the other's issues as irrelevant or unworthy of consideration.

As a Brexit voter I personally DID consider the question of my loss of FOM. I decided in the end that for the most part the worst that was going to happen was that I might have to fill in an extra form when travelling into EU Schengen zone, and that I might be restricted in other minor ways such as how long I could stay or how easily I might seek employment (if I ever did need to).
In reality, I felt that any potential disruption to me personally, and probably the overwhelming majority of UK citizens would be negligible. Some in the Remain camp will however see even these minor inconveniences as significant for them. Some may even feel that the loss of something they perhaps never intended to use themselves represents a serious reduction in freedoms. I don't share those views, but I can see how some might hold them.
On balance I believe (note believe, not know) that the overwhelming majority of UK citizens will not see any substantive change in their ability to enjoy time on the continent, be that for holidays, travel or even work (for skilled people). I also suspect that some additional 'freedoms' may be recovered in the future once the Brexit experience has faded on both sides of the channel, and politicians start to explore ways to cooperate on things like student travel etc. I might be naive in that regard, but these situations are rarely if ever set in stone, and I expect things to change over the coming years.

Against all this I weighed my thoughts on the future of the EU - the direction of travel (if you like) and I felt that the UK remaining in and participating in those plans was not something I wanted to see or for my grandchildren to be part of.
A federal EU state may still be some ways away, but in my considered opinion it's coming as surely as night follows day. The upcoming extension of QMV into areas previously requiring all to agree was for me a very clear indication that, bit by bit, the 'safeguards' that many in the Remain camp were so confident in and which they believed would prevent a slide to a federal position that even many retainers did not want to see, were actually being gradually dismantled.

2016 seemed to be a Nexus point, a time to decide to be 100% in or 100% out (yes I know its not THAT simple) It was the point when the frog in the pan recognised the rising temperature and had to decide to stay and become part of the soup, or leave and find a new way to stay warm. To me, that seemed to be a far more serious question than whether I needed to fill in an extra form to take my car to Italy..

[JeffreyD]

andymadmak said:

A considered reply...

Thanks for the reply. Of course the loss of FOM was about more than that but still

My main issue with Brexit now is not the facts of it but the way it's being handled by our government.
I can't abide the lies.

I don't really get myself out of shape about the EU now, as they are nothing to do with us and there is little we can do to change their behaviour.