Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Look like PistonHeads might be slightly more enthusiastic than the wider public.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
roger.mellie said:
Indeed indeed.
This was known and not unexpected.
I do on occasion wonder how things might have turned out differently if the UK recognised that the SM rules aren't up for negotiation and went from there. Controversial opinion but I think May got that point much better than Boris did and drove a harder bargain.
Regardless, it's water under the bridge.
Thing is, as you well know, protecting the UK internal market was a flexible line for Boris compared to May. It's one thing to say it is a red line now, it's another to have negotiated based on that position. he didn't.
If there was a tacit agreement to respect NI's place in the UK and its internal market in equal measure to respecting the EU's Single Market, why is it only primarily incumbent on the UK to recognise the SM rules for goods ONLY being transported to a part of the UK?This was known and not unexpected.
I do on occasion wonder how things might have turned out differently if the UK recognised that the SM rules aren't up for negotiation and went from there. Controversial opinion but I think May got that point much better than Boris did and drove a harder bargain.
Regardless, it's water under the bridge.
Thing is, as you well know, protecting the UK internal market was a flexible line for Boris compared to May. It's one thing to say it is a red line now, it's another to have negotiated based on that position. he didn't.
Edited by roger.mellie on Monday 21st June 15:43
It would strike me as very easy for there to be very pragmatic ways to address this using retrospective penalty IF suplliers are seen to be taking the piss with this framework. There already exists an obligation to label foodstuffs going to NI only "not for sale in the EU" as I understand it. A few million whistle blowers in RoI and a few hundred million more in member States should British sausages find their way onto the shelves there would seem very able to give the EU a nice big stick to play with.
The island of Ireland situation is unique. Unique, pragmatic solutions required. But are seemingly impossible fot he short sleeved, be-epauletted pens in shirt pocket types that the EU fills itself with.
Murph7355 said:
If there was a tacit agreement to respect NI's place in the UK and its internal market in equal measure to respecting the EU's Single Market, why is it only primarily incumbent on the UK to recognise the SM rules for goods ONLY being transported to a part of the UK?
For a moment, look at it from the other viewpoint: If the GFA/NI situation is so critical, why is it so important that GB seed sellers & sausage mongers are accommodated?
I'd love to see just exactly what volume of trade is affected. NI folks can sell to their hearts' content.
If it's down to upsetting a certain cohort in NI from being able to express their love of the Union that makes it important, then surely equal cadence should be given to the rest of NI?
(I mean, if the "ban" affected "flegs" and pallets, I could understand
)M.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Look like PistonHeads might be slightly more enthusiastic than the wider public.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
That is a bit selective but par for the course for you... https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
50% of all voters think it has gone better or neither better or worse with 13% of don't knows. with 75% of leave voters and 81% of Tory voters thinking the same. By your reckoning only 38% think it has gone badly Lies, damn lies etc. especially as the total of All voters is 101%
Murph7355 said:
If there was a tacit agreement to respect NI's place in the UK and its internal market in equal measure to respecting the EU's Single Market, why is it only primarily incumbent on the UK to recognise the SM rules for goods ONLY being transported to a part of the UK?
It would strike me as very easy for there to be very pragmatic ways to address this using retrospective penalty IF suplliers are seen to be taking the piss with this framework. There already exists an obligation to label foodstuffs going to NI only "not for sale in the EU" as I understand it. A few million whistle blowers in RoI and a few hundred million more in member States should British sausages find their way onto the shelves there would seem very able to give the EU a nice big stick to play with.
The island of Ireland situation is unique. Unique, pragmatic solutions required. But are seemingly impossible fot he short sleeved, be-epauletted pens in shirt pocket types that the EU fills itself with.
If wishes were wings we could all fly.It would strike me as very easy for there to be very pragmatic ways to address this using retrospective penalty IF suplliers are seen to be taking the piss with this framework. There already exists an obligation to label foodstuffs going to NI only "not for sale in the EU" as I understand it. A few million whistle blowers in RoI and a few hundred million more in member States should British sausages find their way onto the shelves there would seem very able to give the EU a nice big stick to play with.
The island of Ireland situation is unique. Unique, pragmatic solutions required. But are seemingly impossible fot he short sleeved, be-epauletted pens in shirt pocket types that the EU fills itself with.
But there is only one negotiated solution which is the one we're stuck with. The reason it's incumbent on the UK is because NI is in the UK and the UK got very particular about the EU establishing their own checkpoints within UK territory despite being happy to create the internal border.
One problem is expecting those pen pushers to change the rules they work on to accommodate you not wanting to follow them
. We're all car fans here, you bend it, you mend it. Don't blame someone else. There are plenty of potential solutions, but none that involve changing SM rules or involve the UK giving up their newfound sovereignty. That does limit the options.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's not by my reckoning it's literally how YouGov have worded it and the numbers are there for anyone to see.
Exactly, I would be in the neither well or badly category as I recognise there have been some teething troubles but over all it has gone pretty much as I expected so far. Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Look like PistonHeads might be slightly more enthusiastic than the wider public.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
That is a bit selective but par for the course for you... https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
50% of all voters think it has gone better or neither better or worse with 13% of don't knows. with 75% of leave voters and 81% of Tory voters thinking the same. By your reckoning only 38% think it has gone badly Lies, damn lies etc. especially as the total of All voters is 101%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-result...
El stovey said:
Could be summed up as "a very Boris brexit" then?M.
Tuna said:
That is a rather evidence free assertion. Three assertions.
Isn’t it just. Apart from, well, reality.Even the government’s own mouthpiece agrees https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50088300
But feel free to tell me why I’m wrong rather than criticising my opinion.
El stovey said:
Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Look like PistonHeads might be slightly more enthusiastic than the wider public.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
That is a bit selective but par for the course for you... https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1406980781629640...
@YouGov
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters - 51%
Leave voters - 45%
British public - 25%
Remain voters - 8%
Lab voters - 5%
50% of all voters think it has gone better or neither better or worse with 13% of don't knows. with 75% of leave voters and 81% of Tory voters thinking the same. By your reckoning only 38% think it has gone badly Lies, damn lies etc. especially as the total of All voters is 101%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-result...
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
This is the sort of crap Boris and Frost’s prevarication over owning their own deal causes.
This is the sort of crap Boris and Frost’s prevarication over owning their own deal causes.
Mortarboard said:
El stovey said:
Could be summed up as "a very Boris brexit" then?M.
Looked at more optimistically...63:37 (stripping out the don't knows and assuming "meh" is positive given the amount of caterwauling there's been from the naysayers).
Stats, eh.
Mortarboard said:
For a moment, look at it from the other viewpoint:
If the GFA/NI situation is so critical, why is it so important that GB seed sellers & sausage mongers are accommodated?
I'd love to see just exactly what volume of trade is affected. NI folks can sell to their hearts' content.
If it's down to upsetting a certain cohort in NI from being able to express their love of the Union that makes it important, then surely equal cadence should be given to the rest of NI?
(I mean, if the "ban" affected "flegs" and pallets, I could understand )
M.
I was responding to a post only/in the main looking at it from the EU's perspective.If the GFA/NI situation is so critical, why is it so important that GB seed sellers & sausage mongers are accommodated?
I'd love to see just exactly what volume of trade is affected. NI folks can sell to their hearts' content.
If it's down to upsetting a certain cohort in NI from being able to express their love of the Union that makes it important, then surely equal cadence should be given to the rest of NI?
(I mean, if the "ban" affected "flegs" and pallets, I could understand
)M.
I'll do the same again...if the amount of trade is negligible, why are the EU getting their panties in a bunch? It's not like 15 packs of Richmonds and some finest Welsh grass seed is going to see the EU edifice crumble, s it.
Or is it....? <Evil laugh>
(If it would mean being able to sell every packet of Richmonds to the EU rather than see them sully our shelves I will commit to voting to rejoin
)(Scratch that. I've just realised where the fecking things are originally from. BRING ON THE SAUSAGE WAR AND BANISH THEM
).Murph7355 said:
(If it would mean being able to sell every packet of Richmonds to the EU rather than see them sully our shelves I will commit to voting to rejoin )
(Scratch that. I've just realised where the fecking things are originally from. BRING ON THE SAUSAGE WAR AND BANISH THEM).
Meh, i like a nice cumberland. Admittedly, almost every other "mainland" sausage is "lawn grade", barely fit for badgers )(Scratch that. I've just realised where the fecking things are originally from. BRING ON THE SAUSAGE WAR AND BANISH THEM
).M.
LoL
Leaked EU documents suggesting that they intend to ban or reduce the ability for EU citizens to view UK content on TV and limit streaming platforms such as Netflix and Amazon Prime, stuff apparently they really like watching such as Downton, Poldark, The Crown, Bridget Jones etc. Even though only 8% of streamed content was from UK.
Worries about cultural diversity apparently, and yet it's Brexiters who are constantly being told they are paranoid isolationists.
link
There isn't a violin small enough.
Leaked EU documents suggesting that they intend to ban or reduce the ability for EU citizens to view UK content on TV and limit streaming platforms such as Netflix and Amazon Prime, stuff apparently they really like watching such as Downton, Poldark, The Crown, Bridget Jones etc. Even though only 8% of streamed content was from UK.
Worries about cultural diversity apparently, and yet it's Brexiters who are constantly being told they are paranoid isolationists.
link
There isn't a violin small enough.
Mortarboard said:
Meh, i like a nice cumberland. Admittedly, almost every other "mainland" sausage is "lawn grade", barely fit for badgers
M.
My family have no taste, even the foreign ones who visit here love Doherty’s sausages. I find them far too salty.M.
Did you see this one https://www.derryjournal.com/business/colum-eastwo...
Followed up by apparently some couldn’t get the Derry accent and thought he was saying “dirty sausages”.
Gave me a chuckle.
FiF said:
LoL
Leaked EU documents suggesting that they intend to ban or reduce the ability for EU citizens to view UK content on TV and limit streaming platforms such as Netflix and Amazon Prime, stuff apparently they really like watching such as Downton, Poldark, The Crown, Bridget Jones etc. Even though only 8% of streamed content was from UK.
Worries about cultural diversity apparently, and yet it's Brexiters who are constantly being told they are paranoid isolationists.
link
There isn't a violin small enough.
When did the telegraph decide to lose all integrity to get the nutters nodding?Leaked EU documents suggesting that they intend to ban or reduce the ability for EU citizens to view UK content on TV and limit streaming platforms such as Netflix and Amazon Prime, stuff apparently they really like watching such as Downton, Poldark, The Crown, Bridget Jones etc. Even though only 8% of streamed content was from UK.
Worries about cultural diversity apparently, and yet it's Brexiters who are constantly being told they are paranoid isolationists.
link
There isn't a violin small enough.
EU targeting the content available on streaming platforms, if they really wanted to censor government disinformation they could just ban the telegraph.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff