Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

Pontins told to stop screening Irish names

Author
Discussion

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Found this comment

"Downing Street condemned the blacklist as “completely unacceptable”, with the Prime Minister’s official spokesman saying: “No-one in the UK should be discriminated against because of their race or ethnicity.

“It’s right that the Equality and Human Rights Commission and Pontins investigate and address this."

How about you do something about a criminal minority trashing the livelihoods of British businesses with virtually total impunity?. No that would be difficult wouldn't it, and someone might say some rude words about you on Twitter.
If a large UK holiday company is constantly blighted by the same ethnic minority that appears to blight the rest of the country, surely that is something the government needs to address ?

We cant keep ignoring it

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
I feel sorry for Pontins. The staff, the business, the non- customers. They can't win.

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
mrporsche said:
If a large UK holiday company is constantly blighted by the same ethnic minority that appears to blight the rest of the country, surely that is something the government needs to address ?

We cant keep ignoring it
They can and they will

The issues have been clear for a while and they make up (along with Roma and other travelling communities) 5% of the UK prison population and 10% of the Irish male prison population (22% of their female prison population).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dis...

Because of the times we live in they are then deemed to be a protected minority that have to be dealt with by the authorities with kid gloves. In desperation private businesses are then having to resort to such measures as banning commercial vehicles or certain surnames.

It will only change when the government has the courage to disregard the noisy minority and act in the interests of the country.

s1962a

5,265 posts

161 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
We were told it was the travelling community that burgled our house a week after we moved in (a few years ago now). Got them on CCTV and handed it to the police and they said chances of finding them were very slim so no action taken. I do wonder if it wasn't the travelling community would they have made more of an effort to try and find them, as I had clear views of their faces.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
Type R Tom said:
Are you sure about that? The Equalities act protected characteristics are:

age;
disability;
gender reassignment;
marriage and civil partnership;
pregnancy and maternity;
race;
religion or belief;
sex;
sexual orientation.

Isn't this the what you are referring to or is there some other that I have missed?
Of all the things on that list, age is the most woolly. Because the act then gives so many get out clauses in respect of age discrimination, that in most real world situations, discriminating on grounds of age is perfectly legal.

Young drivers still pay more for car insurance, and pensioners pay more for life insurance. Plus a million other examples.

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
JagLover said:
They can and they will

The issues have been clear for a while and they make up (along with Roma and other travelling communities) 5% of the UK prison population and 10% of the Irish male prison population (22% of their female prison population).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dis...

Because of the times we live in they are then deemed to be a protected minority that have to be dealt with by the authorities with kid gloves. In desperation private businesses are then having to resort to such measures as banning commercial vehicles or certain surnames.

It will only change when the government has the courage to disregard the noisy minority and act in the interests of the country.
The police have done well to catch that many.

alangla

4,723 posts

180 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Swap it round.

Reward good customers.

Put prices up double which puts off scum.

Require ID for all visitors.

Then good customers get a great price next visit, then normal prices after that.

Return nice customers get same cost over time. They are happy as it’s cheap next year. They are happy as tts are filtered out.

It wouldn’t take long to black list scum if they’d even bother turning up with the higher initial cost.
That sounds a bit like what some of the hotels that actually do allow stag & hen groups do - charge a large damage deposit at check-in or booking and refund it at the end.
Some see that as a bit of a red flag when booking, but I guess it works for those sorts of places.

Having had a quick look, it appears neither Center Parcs nor Haven charge deposits like that, so I can't imagine Pontins will want to be too far out of step with them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
Could pontins ban groups of more than one family at all ? Along the lines of no stag/hen parties ?

vaud

50,290 posts

154 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
Iwantafusca said:
Could pontins ban groups of more than one family at all ? Along the lines of no stag/hen parties ?
Wouldn't they lose a lot of customers? Isn't part of the attraction in being able to get large family groups together? If you have a large extended famly, your options for getting 30 people together at the same holiday are limited?

Anyway, people would just book separately.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
mrporsche said:
JagLover said:
Found this comment

"Downing Street condemned the blacklist as “completely unacceptable”, with the Prime Minister’s official spokesman saying: “No-one in the UK should be discriminated against because of their race or ethnicity.

“It’s right that the Equality and Human Rights Commission and Pontins investigate and address this."

How about you do something about a criminal minority trashing the livelihoods of British businesses with virtually total impunity?. No that would be difficult wouldn't it, and someone might say some rude words about you on Twitter.
If a large UK holiday company is constantly blighted by the same ethnic minority that appears to blight the rest of the country, surely that is something the government needs to address ?

We cant keep ignoring it
You are dead right. The government simply hide behind the law without recognising and dealing with the issue. It's fair enough people on here saying Pontin's shouldn't break the law, they shouldn't no one should, but it's a real problem that affects many peoples lives and businesses and nothing is done about it. My wider family are farmers and endless animals and equipment get stolen and the pointers are there as to who is doing it. On one occasion a remote farm was visited by a group of travellers and my relative was intimidated into selling some items cheap; the implication being if he didn't sell they'd be back later for them anyway.

The "thing" that might need doing is simply applying current laws more rigourously so that there isn't a level of impunity for offenders who can hide in camps or whose weight of numbers and aggression mean the authorities won't deal with them as the law expects.

The other issue is that if the law was applied to them as it is everyone else then convictions for fly tipping, littering, no insurance etc etc would go through the roof in those communities (at least for a short period) but in these woke days the chances are they would then claim racism due to a disproportionate number of them being stopped and prosecuted etc.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
Something that doesn't include racism?
Such as what? It's easy to stand by and criticise what other's are doing but takes some effort to be constructive. If your business (struggling as all are nowadays) was constantly visited by groups who abused the service you provide to the point where you would rather not have their business at all, how would you manage it? Remembering that any confrontation will result in all your windows being put in that night or worse.

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You want to send them the Pontins name list !!

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
s1962a said:
We were told it was the travelling community that burgled our house a week after we moved in (a few years ago now). Got them on CCTV and handed it to the police and they said chances of finding them were very slim so no action taken. I do wonder if it wasn't the travelling community would they have made more of an effort to try and find them, as I had clear views of their faces.
They move around, nobody knows anybody, nobody will speak to the police.. They are very good at working the system and have respect for the law, because we appear to have taken a more relaxed attitude to some of their issues, they are just "cheeky scamps""

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
MikeStroud said:
You are dead right. The government simply hide behind the law without recognising and dealing with the issue. It's fair enough people on here saying Pontin's shouldn't break the law, they shouldn't no one should, but it's a real problem that affects many peoples lives and businesses and nothing is done about it. My wider family are farmers and endless animals and equipment get stolen and the pointers are there as to who is doing it. On one occasion a remote farm was visited by a group of travellers and my relative was intimidated into selling some items cheap; the implication being if he didn't sell they'd be back later for them anyway.

The "thing" that might need doing is simply applying current laws more rigourously so that there isn't a level of impunity for offenders who can hide in camps or whose weight of numbers and aggression mean the authorities won't deal with them as the law expects.

The other issue is that if the law was applied to them as it is everyone else then convictions for fly tipping, littering, no insurance etc etc would go through the roof in those communities (at least for a short period) but in these woke days the chances are they would then claim racism due to a disproportionate number of them being stopped and prosecuted etc.
Other than actually employ an army or have police constantly on their sites what do we think Pontins can actually do ?

Families don't want to see running battles with security guards and travelers, and the staff there on minimum wage aren't going to get involved. l

Other than not letting them in, there isn't a solution that doesn't involve huge costs and or changes for the non traveler customers



kev b

2,708 posts

165 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
Seems there’s two groups on this thread, those who have had no direct experience of travellers, are sympathetic towards them and believe they are undeservedly discriminated against.
On the other hand are posters who have encountered travellers first hand and without exception condemn them as lawless scum.
I have had first hand encounters on a number of occasions and would happily see the whole lot rounded up into a camp and re educated.

I am not a Tory voting right leaning company director type either.

Edited by kev b on Friday 5th March 12:09

vaud

50,290 posts

154 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
kev b said:
Seems there’s two groups on this thread, those who have had no direct experience of travellers, are sympathetic towards them and believe they are undeservedly discriminated against.
On the other are posters who have encountered travellers first hand and without exception condemn them as lawless scum.
I have had first hand encounters on a number of occasions and would happily see the whole lot rounded up into a camp and re educated.

I am not a Tory voting right leaning company director type either.
I have had good and bad experiences.

What I don't see is an easy solution.

mrporsche

742 posts

41 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
vaud said:
I have had good and bad experiences.

What I don't see is an easy solution.
May i ask what these good experiences were ?

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Found this comment

"Downing Street condemned the blacklist as “completely unacceptable”, with the Prime Minister’s official spokesman saying: “No-one in the UK should be discriminated against because of their race or ethnicity.

“It’s right that the Equality and Human Rights Commission and Pontins investigate and address this."

How about you do something about a criminal minority trashing the livelihoods of British businesses with virtually total impunity?. No that would be difficult wouldn't it, and someone might say some rude words about you on Twitter.
Really they’re being discriminated against lawlessness which has a broad correlation with their ‘culture’, which correlates with their ‘ethnicity’

But as we know even making this fact known is now seen as inciting racial hatred.

Ie, if they literally blacklisted everyone by facial recognition over many years, and it was 95% Irish travellers, that database would contain information that would incite racial hatred if shared broadly with others.

BOR

4,699 posts

254 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
A better solution would be for Pontin's to force those of us on The List to wear an identifying label.

I suggest a green shamrock on our overalls, then the camp guards will be able to easily identify us, and treat us accordingly.

This has been tried before, and shown to work.

vaud

50,290 posts

154 months

Friday 5th March 2021
quotequote all
mrporsche said:
May i ask what these good experiences were ?
A group who camp up for about 8 months each year; same families (I think - 3-4 caravans). Keep their plot tidy. Kids go to school and apparently while not model pupils are trying and are no more disruptive than others.

When the village was having a spruce up and building planters / planting out flowers they rocked up to help with their landscaping van and tools for a few days for no charge.