The by-election thread
Discussion
Can someone explain to me why people cast the Lib Dem candidate as being against party policy on HS2 as a bad thing? MPs are supposed to be representatives of their local constituents; as far as I'm concerned having the gumption to speak out against stated policy is a sign of the kind of integrity and honesty that so many people outwardly at least claim to want from our political classes.
To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bulls
t as if it's candy.
We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bulls
t as if it's candy.We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 19th June 12:18
HM-2 said:
Can someone explain to me why people cast the Lib Dem candidate as being against party policy on HS2 as a bad thing? MPs are supposed to be representatives of their local constituents; as far as I'm concerned having the gumption to speak out against stated policy is a sign of the kind of integrity and honesty that so many people outwardly at least claim to want from our political classes.
To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bullst as if it's candy.
We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
Because they stand representing the party their rosette stands for & that would have been in the advertising mail drops. To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bulls
t as if it's candy.We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 19th June 12:18
Otherwise your kind of an independent MP.
Welshbeef said:
HM-2 said:
Can someone explain to me why people cast the Lib Dem candidate as being against party policy on HS2 as a bad thing? MPs are supposed to be representatives of their local constituents; as far as I'm concerned having the gumption to speak out against stated policy is a sign of the kind of integrity and honesty that so many people outwardly at least claim to want from our political classes.
To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bullst as if it's candy.
We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
Because they stand representing the party their rosette stands for & that would have been in the advertising mail drops. To my eye its vastly preferable to a sea of pasty-faced yes-men who will only buck the party whip when they know legislation will get passed anyway, political tokenism performed solely to avoid having to come cap in hand to their electorate and sell them bulls
t as if it's candy.We need more integrity and conviction in our politicians, not less.
Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 19th June 12:18
Otherwise your kind of an independent MP.
A bit like people who were anti Heathrow 3rd runway when it suited them, until it didn't.
pquinn said:
More like they say what they need to locally to get elected, but when it comes to it the party policy is what matters.
A bit like people who were anti Heathrow 3rd runway when it suited them, until it didn't.
The 3rd runway won't happen, our own prime minister has promised to lie down in front of the construction machinery shoukd work start and he never uses hyperbolic language or exaggerates now does he.... A bit like people who were anti Heathrow 3rd runway when it suited them, until it didn't.
pquinn said:
More like they say what they need to locally to get elected, but when it comes to it the party policy is what matters.
A bit like people who were anti Heathrow 3rd runway when it suited them, until it didn't.
Very rarely a party MP will take a stand. Zac Goldsmith quit over Heathrow expansion.A bit like people who were anti Heathrow 3rd runway when it suited them, until it didn't.
Then got re-ected anyway
Then got un re-elected
Then got a peerage and is back in the government
Did I mention he's incredibly wealthy?
If campaigning on local issues forced the mother party to listen and adapt it's policies then : yes, I'd support that.
But we know it doesn't.
The lib dems won't give a fig for what some rich ex-tory nimbys are moaning about this week, though this lot voted remain so they'll probably be slightly less inclined to ignore them.
Welshbeef said:
Because they stand representing the party their rosette stands for & that would have been in the advertising mail drops.
Otherwise your kind of an independent MP.
Are you suggesting that it's not, or should not be, possible to be a member or representative of a political party without agreeing 100% with every single policy position that party holds? Otherwise your kind of an independent MP.
HM-2 said:
Are you suggesting that it's not, or should not be, possible to be a member or representative of a political party without agreeing 100% with every single policy position that party holds?
It gets a bit more complex when the party machinery throws itself behind said representative and leaflets the bejeezus out of a constituency, promoting policies the party doesn't actually agree with. Johnnytheboy said:
HM-2 said:
Are you suggesting that it's not, or should not be, possible to be a member or representative of a political party without agreeing 100% with every single policy position that party holds?
It gets a bit more complex when the party machinery throws itself behind said representative and leaflets the bejeezus out of a constituency, promoting policies the party doesn't actually agree with. To be frank, I hate the concerted efforts by parties on both sides of the political spectrum to eliminate or marginalise dissenting voices within their ranks. I get it within cabinet but these days even backbenchers are subject to muzzling attempts by party machinery even when all they're doing is representing the views of the constituents that elected them. It's woefully undemocratic.
HM-2 said:
Johnnytheboy said:
HM-2 said:
Are you suggesting that it's not, or should not be, possible to be a member or representative of a political party without agreeing 100% with every single policy position that party holds?
It gets a bit more complex when the party machinery throws itself behind said representative and leaflets the bejeezus out of a constituency, promoting policies the party doesn't actually agree with. To be frank, I hate the concerted efforts by parties on both sides of the political spectrum to eliminate or marginalise dissenting voices within their ranks. I get it within cabinet but these days even backbenchers are subject to muzzling attempts by party machinery even when all they're doing is representing the views of the constituents that elected them. It's woefully undemocratic.
If the party is merely supporting a slightly off-message candidate, that seems very reasonable.
If the party is trying to present said off-message candidate's views as party policy, that's where it gets a bit less cool.
Welshbeef said:
The Mad Monk said:
Welshbeef said:
Does your friend know ALL 3 parties fully back HS2 - if they didn’t want HS2 Green Party should have been voted for but oddly their vote share dropped.
So HS2 is codswhollop
But it is the Tories that are pushing HS2 to completion.So HS2 is codswhollop
Tory
Liberal Ds
All have HS2 in their manifesto and have all voted for it in parliament.
Forums are in govt the budgets have been voted in and it’s going live by 2030.
Labour activists ‘egged, pushed and kicked’ on Batley and Spen campaign trail
Labour activists in the Batley and Spen by-election have been pelted with eggs and kicked in the head while on the campaign trail, the region’s mayor has said.
Newly elected West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin said she was leafleting with “colleagues, volunteers, campaigners” in the Whitaker Street area of Batley on Sunday when they “were followed, verbally abused and physically assaulted by a group of young men”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tracy-brabin-la...
Labour activists in the Batley and Spen by-election have been pelted with eggs and kicked in the head while on the campaign trail, the region’s mayor has said.
Newly elected West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin said she was leafleting with “colleagues, volunteers, campaigners” in the Whitaker Street area of Batley on Sunday when they “were followed, verbally abused and physically assaulted by a group of young men”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tracy-brabin-la...
anonymoususer said:
I wonder if Kim Leadbeater thought she would be a shoe in for Batley
To be fair to her if she wins it won't have been easy for her.
She is being attacked from all sides some rather unsavoury.
I saw a video of her being pretty unpleasantly harassed, and there were early reports of some of her team being physically attacked.To be fair to her if she wins it won't have been easy for her.
She is being attacked from all sides some rather unsavoury.
It looks as though George Galloway’s whipping up of certain factions in the Muslim community is not helping.
I disagree with nepotism getting you a candidacy, even in cases such as this, so I’m not inclined to hope she wins, but given how she’s being targeted it’d be good to see her give her attackers and George Galloway a metaphorical bloody nose.
CardinalBlue said:
Labour activists ‘egged, pushed and kicked’ on Batley and Spen campaign trail
Labour activists in the Batley and Spen by-election have been pelted with eggs and kicked in the head while on the campaign trail, the region’s mayor has said.
Newly elected West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin said she was leafleting with “colleagues, volunteers, campaigners” in the Whitaker Street area of Batley on Sunday when they “were followed, verbally abused and physically assaulted by a group of young men”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tracy-brabin-la...
As above, this seems to be a response in part to Galloway’s sLabour activists in the Batley and Spen by-election have been pelted with eggs and kicked in the head while on the campaign trail, the region’s mayor has said.
Newly elected West Yorkshire mayor Tracy Brabin said she was leafleting with “colleagues, volunteers, campaigners” in the Whitaker Street area of Batley on Sunday when they “were followed, verbally abused and physically assaulted by a group of young men”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tracy-brabin-la...
t-stirring among the Muslim community.Johnnytheboy said:
Oh, I was assuming gangs of angry young conservative voters were to blame! 
I may be stereotyping. Her main interlocutor was brown, had an “innit bruv” form of speech, and was being aggressively angry about her failure to support Muslims in Kashmir, but I suppose I shouldn’t assume from that that he’s Muslim or that he’s not a Conservative worker.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff