CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)

[g4ry13]

gizlaroc said:

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

I have seen the 'fact checkers' and Reuters, and the BBC and Sky.

They are full of st.



We should not be putting this up kids noses up to three times a week.

It's funny how all the 'fact checking' websites are all funded by the same organisations. Facebook being the main one of them.

Reuters Fact check: https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about

"The fact-checking unit at Reuters has joined Facebook’s third-party fact-checking program. Through this program, Facebook will provide funding to the Reuters fact-checking unit, in exchange for assessments of the authenticity of content on its platform."

[ch37]

The expected 4 week delay means severe restrictions on two of the UKs most widely viewed international showpiece events, Wimbledon and the British GP. Not a good look when you've been bleating on about the world leading vaccination programme is it?

Euro 2020 final (at Wembley) falls under that window too. If England have a good run we're likely to see widespread and overwhelming disregard for the remaining restrictions.

Edited by ch37 on Saturday 12th June 02:48

[DukeDickson]

Elysium said:

Some more epic social distancing from Biden. Not so much a handshake as an attempted kidnapping:

https://youtu.be/cjEgCMTxxv8

This chap has no concept of personal space and he is far to ‘handsy’ to pull off the idea that he is avoiding a killer virus.

Ah, but he's old, so dead within a week. A month or so if double Pfizer dipped. Less if choosing another option.

If an 80 something can live his life as normal, what chance anyone else? Same as it ever was.

You are dealt a hand of cards & you play them. If someone gives you a bit of help, that's great, though it often doesn't magically transform a 3 & a 10 into a pair of aces. Possibly time to stop pretending it wasn't ever thus?

[Red Devil]

Square Leg said:

Perhaps they can back date the numbers to last year….

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavi...

It's taken them well over a year to come up with that instruction.
Proof, if any were needed, that the ongoing manipulation has been utterly blatant and shows no sign of ending.
I feel like I'm now living in a world that is straight from the pen of Charles Dodgson.

[grumbledoak]

g4ry13 said:

It's funny how all the 'fact checking' websites are all funded by the same organisations. Facebook being the main one of them.

Since the Internet has enabled direct, live, citizen journalism we've learned to mistrust the MSM. So they fund "Fact Checkers" and people blindly believe what they publish instead.

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space..."

[anonymous-user]

g4ry13 said:

gizlaroc said:

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

I have seen the 'fact checkers' and Reuters, and the BBC and Sky.

They are full of st.



We should not be putting this up kids noses up to three times a week.

It's funny how all the 'fact checking' websites are all funded by the same organisations. Facebook being the main one of them.

Reuters Fact check: https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about

"The fact-checking unit at Reuters has joined Facebook’s third-party fact-checking program. Through this program, Facebook will provide funding to the Reuters fact-checking unit, in exchange for assessments of the authenticity of content on its platform."

Don’t you fruit loops start with Facebook for your ‘research’?

Or do you have other sources where we can “go read up on” these ‘facts’?

[JagLover]

J210 said:

Financial Times saying its Whitty pushing for 4 more weeks.

https://www.ft.com/content/fa7c25be-d3df-4edd-b86f...

We don't really know the full picture of who is behind this as we don't have full access to the info.

It has seemed clear to me though that most of SAGE, and senior advisors such as Whitty, back lockdown as an end in itself on ideological grounds. I formed this view in autumn last year and every subsequent event, and information that has come to light, has backed this up.

The more questionable role is that of the politicians. Hancock and Gove seem to be the same as the above, other cabinet members still seem to think this is about controlling a moderately dangerous virus (IMO and I could be wrong)

Edited by JagLover on Saturday 12th June 06:28

[CAH706]

Feels like we are going to end up easing restrictions very late in the year and I suspect it won’t be a full easing either….I’d be amazed to see social distancing and mask wearing go

We are pushing the problem into the colder months and we know how that went last year!

Given Boris appears not to have learnt any lessons at all I’d suggest having your Christmas ASAP as December isn’t looking good again this year

[johnboy1975]

JagLover said:

J210 said:

Financial Times saying its Whitty pushing for 4 more weeks.

https://www.ft.com/content/fa7c25be-d3df-4edd-b86f...

We don't really know the full picture of who is behind this as we don't have full access to the info.

It has seemed clear to me though that most of SAGE, and senior advisors such as Whitty, back lockdown as an end in itself on ideological grounds. I formed this view in autumn last year and every subsequent event and information has backed this up.

The more questionable role is that of the politicians. Hancock and Gove seem to be the same as the above, other cabinet members still think this is about controlling a moderately dangerous virus (IMO and I could be wrong)

The problem for me is they've all (largely) tried to play both sides - Hancock "crying freedom" one minute and desperate to lock down the next. And building Nightingales and then dismantling them prior to winter. Grant Shapps "manning the barricades" with JHB if we didn't get our freedom back in February, quite happy to let India stay on the Amber list one minute, and yet fully behind downgrading Portugal the next. Whitty "we must learn to live with it" one minute and calling for ongoing restrictions the next. Boris "Back to normal by xmas" then extending restrictions into July of the following year (Was he repeating what he'd been told (unlikely), going off message - or giving people exactly enough hope to get through to the next set of restrictions?)

The (multiple) change of narratives, moving goalposts, u turns etc is either the work of mindless incompetence or being done deliberately for nefarious purposes. It is important to remember that these are the only 2 options when you boil it down. And that the first is simply untenable when you look at the vast array of civil servarts and experts they have at their disposal.

Whitty is the one who must surely realise more than most the inevitability of an exit wave, the futility of trying to dictate when and where it lands, and the stupidity of deliberately trying to make it land in Autumn / Winter. (See last year for details)

I also don't think they've paid enough attention to what happens when after you've vaccinated everyone. Does it go away (to all intents and purposes) or do you force a mutation to something that at best puts you back to square 1, and at worst puts you in a worse position, with a disease now attacking the younger people and causing more death? 2nd option may be unlikely (I dont know) but it would be a bit late to consider the possibility after you've administered your 100mth jab. Should that prove to be the case (Isaldiri will be along to say its pretty bloody unlikely, which is fair enough - as I said, I dont know) we will be in a position of needing lockdowns to try and cope with covid20 (Canadian email?) and the economy will be firmly in the toilet, allowing Boris to "build back greener" from the wreckage.

It strikes me that might be a desirable outcome to certain people (Susan Michie) and possibly even to Boris himself if he can manage to convince everyone that it wasn't their fault, rather it will be the "dirty unvaccinated " or the stupid people who didn't follow the rules guidance.

[markcoznottz]

NewNameNeeded said:

gizlaroc said:

Are people still genuinely not seeing what is happening?

Every time an announcement is about to be made a new super scary variant arrives and........





How can anyone still think this is about a virus?

Genuine question. What is it about?

If they had their way, a new way of living. Low carbon, green lifestyle. No gas heating, no dairy, no meat, no foreign holidays, work from home, electric cars that hardly any one can afford. I’m if the opinion that most of the political class view the public as nothing more than an inconvenience. Most of the politicians want some kind of socialist command economy, I doubt they even think much about the little people. A lot of Whitehall share this view, but not all. Won’t be so much fun, when the middle classes go back to an early 80’s standard of living. As far as voting them out……



‘And while it has been widely reported that the coronavirus act will lapse after two years, read it carefully and you’ll see that any part of it can be extended for a further six months – with indefinite renewals possible, without prior parliamentary approval.

The act’s other chilling powers include allowing the government to postpone elections and close borders.’ Vernon Coleman said in one of his early videos ‘there’s been a coup’ . He may eventually be proven right.

[johnboy1975]

58,791 excess deaths in the home since last March

Assuming these aren't covid deaths? And yes I appreciate we have done this more than once, and it's probably my bad memory that doesn't remember that figure being quite so high (and obviously it's a movable feast, and seems to be going up when overall excess deaths is going down - 582 excess deaths in the home on latest figures, despite excess deaths being below the average)

Where are we with total excess deaths? That seems to be about 1/3 to 1/2 of them. With another 1/3 occurring in care homes, that leaves precious little devastation, in the stats at least.

Obviously all death is tragic. Well, some more tragic than others (again, hopefully obviously). Dying at 83 after a life well lived is pretty much my hope (who wants to live to 100? Nick Gnome and The Greek path chap probably). My best mate never got that chance, passing of Bowel cancer before his 40th birthday (well before covid). That death was tragic to all concerned, and its effects are still being felt 5 years later.

Stats courtesy of Planet Normal (Telegraph podcast) around the 10 minute mark, but the whole thing is well worth a watch/ listen (every week)

https://youtu.be/Jc8RTqwNzAE

[Vanden Saab]

plasticpig said:

Vanden Saab said:

The top 9 were 26.6 million so we are well past that... In fact the top 9 were vaccinated in time for there to be 3 weeks before unlocking on the 21st... That was supposed to be the plan all along...

Nope. I am in the top 9 and my second jab is next week. So a week before the 21st. I know several others who had their second jab this week.

Strange that don't you think,,, here is the original list of the top 9 cohorts with the numbers from the JCVI...




Unless my maths is way off that is 26.6 million people. If not all the over 50s have been second jabbed then where have the other 5 million jabs gone if that top 9 is actually nearer 32 million being suggested.

[Rollin]

g4ry13 said:

gizlaroc said:

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

I have seen the 'fact checkers' and Reuters, and the BBC and Sky.

They are full of st.



We should not be putting this up kids noses up to three times a week.

It's funny how all the 'fact checking' websites are all funded by the same organisations. Facebook being the main one of them.

Reuters Fact check: https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about

"The fact-checking unit at Reuters has joined Facebook’s third-party fact-checking program. Through this program, Facebook will provide funding to the Reuters fact-checking unit, in exchange for assessments of the authenticity of content on its platform."

Government FOI. Obviously made up too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom...

You lot are laughable.

[Scolmore]

Rollin said:

Government FOI. Obviously made up too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom...

You lot are laughable.

“Risk very low”

Or you could completely avoid the risk by not taking a pointless test in the first place.

[paulw123]

ch37 said:

The expected 4 week delay means severe restrictions on two of the UKs most widely viewed international showpiece events, Wimbledon and the British GP. Not a good look when you've been bleating on about the world leading vaccination programme is it?

Euro 2020 final (at Wembley) falls under that window too. If England have a good run we're likely to see widespread and overwhelming disregard for the remaining restrictions.

Edited by ch37 on Saturday 12th June 02:48

The ‘world beating vaccination program’ has been pretty much been squandered now anyway. The one island of success in a sea of total government incompetence and they still manage to make that seem useless now. Another 4 weeks then probably some other reason then before you know it we will be in autumn and going backwards.

[Rollin]

Scolmore said:

Rollin said:

Government FOI. Obviously made up too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom...

You lot are laughable.

“Risk very low”

Or you could completely avoid the risk by not taking a pointless test in the first place.

Doesn't say that though does it. Here's the wording. You must be too scared to leave the house.

'In the highly unlikely event that a swab does contain a residual amount above the allowable limit, the risk to the user is still considered to be very low.'

None of the reasonable sceptics ever call out the fruit loops.

[Chris Stott]

This thread gets ruined by nutters suggesting things like ‘the government is trying to kill people with nasal swabs’... Much like a few, vocal, 5G nutters ruin the credibility of the protest marches.

[ben5575]

isaldiri said:

Your supposed 'clear logic' from the earlier post about pushing back the date you were so sure would be followed is all over the place.

We are already at 29m second doses. That covers practically all the over 50s and probably is halfway into the mid 40s. There's a further week plus to go to the 21st which will mean another couple of million done from the 40s group.

The difference between stopping all vax now and adding your 7m doses isn't going to change very much at all as those doses are going to be on an age group that will not have a meaningful impact on hospitalisations. if cases continue going up, the age group at risk even with the vaccines remains at greater risk than most of those who have not had first doses (age 30 or below excluding those who chose not to at higher ages) or those with first doses but not second doses (age 35- high 40s).

Exactly how or what marginal impact are you suggesting the delay will have other than provide political cover for the pathetic fools in government.....?

Had an enjoyable evening there isaldiri?

Not sure why you think my logic is all over the place (it was admittedly grossly simplified as I said). It's essentially a race; you have cases doubling every 10-12 days. In two weeks you can administer 7m jabs. 14m in 4 weeks.

That means double jabbing all over 50's and 40's. That's not logic, that's fact.

The decision is whether those additional jabs for those ages are worth the trade off for another two weeks. As I said, personally I think I would if I were in HMG's shoes. You clearly wouldn't. That's a risk and a political trade off judgement. It's ok to disagree; it's a judgement.

My cut off (now) would be generally around 40yo+ being double jabbed. I certainly wouldn't have said that a month ago - I would have fully opened in May. I would have been wrong.

I was very sure that we were going to open on the 21st you're right, based on the Politics and the comms at the time. A week or two ago, the severity in the rate of rise wasn't known and/or well understood/publicised.

Changing your position based on new information is a perfectly logical thing to do. Dogmatically dismissing it as you're heavily invested in a position less so.

[The Ferret]

Rollin said:

Obviously for you, every fact check site that disagrees with your opinion is controlled by the WEF, but some may find this useful...
..and realise you're usually full of st.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs...

The main point of their argument is that the substance has been used for years to sterilise medical equipment, and that’s it’s been tested and is safe to use.

That’s all well and good, but how often do you have a medical procedure that involves coming into contact with it, maybe and handful of times in your entire life? Bit different to stuffing it up your nose on a weekly basis isn’t it?

Where does the line get drawn?

X-rays are perfectly safe, but go and ask your GP if it’s a good idea to have one every week and you’ll probably get a different response.

And how can it’s current use be reported and tested and safe. Have they been secretly testing it weekly on kids and monitoring them for side effects years down the line.

Rather than posting a classic insult and confirming what everyone thinks of you, maybe try thinking outside the box occasionally and not just swallowing the Govt sponsored guff every time. The message from them never changes, do you really think they get these things right every time?

The fact is it’s all been rushed, and neither you nor I can guarantee the long term impacts, so how you can dismiss anything as full of **** is beyond me.

[Wayne E Edge]

ben5575 said:

Had an enjoyable evening there isaldiri?

Not sure why you think my logic is all over the place (it was admittedly grossly simplified as I said). It's essentially a race; you have cases doubling every 10-12 days. In two weeks you can administer 7m jabs. 14m in 4 weeks.

That means double jabbing all over 50's and 40's. That's not logic, that's fact.

The decision is whether those additional jabs for those ages are worth the trade off for another two weeks. As I said, personally I think I would if I were in HMG's shoes. You clearly wouldn't. That's a risk and a political trade off judgement. It's ok to disagree; it's a judgement.

My cut off (now) would be generally around 40yo+ being double jabbed. I certainly wouldn't have said that a month ago - I would have fully opened in May. I would have been wrong.

I was very sure that we were going to open on the 21st you're right, based on the Politics and the comms at the time. A week or two ago, the severity in the rate of rise wasn't known and/or well understood/publicised.

Changing your position based on new information is a perfectly logical thing to do. Dogmatically dismissing it as you're heavily invested in a position less so.

New information? They never planned to open up on the 21st right from the start. You can take that to the bank.