CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)

CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 12)

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Ntv

5,177 posts

122 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
RSTurboPaul said:
JagLover said:
The CDC has conceded it is airborne. This follows a few articles over the last month in the likes of the Lancet that claimed it was.

https://www.biospace.com/article/cdc-s-updated-gui...

If this is the main means of transmission doesn't this call into question many aspects of the rules designed to constrain it?. Masks for example won't be doing much at all. As for distance, well what matters there is likely to be the ventilation of the space you are in with an infectious person, not distance alone.
So... masks are pointless, then?



Oh, wait:

CDC said:
At the same time the study was published, the CDC published research stating that double masking reduced COVID-19 droplet exposure by up to 95% compared with single masking. Based on this research, the agency started recommending the use of two masks instead of one, lending continued support to N95 masks in conjunction with either a cloth or surgical mask.
rolleyes
Quick - there's a market about to open up for single masks with two sets of straps!

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
danllama said:
sl0wlane said:
Just flipping back to the great reset topic that was covered in the last few pages of the last thread.

There can be no doubt, no doubt at all that this is what is happening. Regardless of this term being used before or after, Klaus says Covid presented an opportunity to implement it, and that is what is happening.

Our world leaders are all following the line, using the strap line… it was launched by Prince Charles… its a fact that this is what our elite our working to do.

The big question is… is it so bad, and what does it mean for us little people.

Obviously it’s a huge “green” agenda, some humanitarian stuff (on the face of it)… and in most people’s eyes those are good things… but what is the actual reality of the policies?

Are cheap flights gone for good (because carbon)?
What are the real implications of “stakeholder capitalism”?
Will we all be carrying digital ID cards forever?

Will you “own nothing and be happy”?

I’m slightly more worried about the polygon 2021 cyber exercise, because that simulates a mass shutdown of the internet… and we know what swiftly followed the last pandemic exercise (should we just be calling these things dress rehearsals instead?)
Anyone who thinks it isn't a coordinated assault on our way of life is extremely deluded. None of us will be better off for it. The deception should tell you all you need to know.
Digital ID with facial recognition, tied to a centralised, government-controlled digital currency and a 'carbon budget' (alongside 'social credit' scores dictated on a whim by the judgement of others and the Government) = 24/7 big brother monitoring + control over the population's activities and energy use and ability to remove those in power.


A certain political party based in Germany some 80 years ago would have creamed their pants over that outcome.


(That's Godwin out of the way for Vol 12 wink )


But it would never happen here, of course.

It's all about a virus.

And the Chinese haven't done all of that except the carbon stuff (but instead with nationwide facial recognition CCTV) already.

Nope.

Blib

43,795 posts

196 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
I've just received this from a close mate of mine who has been through the wringer thus past couple of years.

Jason said:
So, it turns out that although I have had both rounds of vaccination I still have no antibodies against Covid.

The haematology department at University College Hospital London, along with others are testing all of their cancer patients and I understand that my response is fairly typical.

They don't know if it is the cancer or the treatment that is preventing the vaccines from working but my money is on all the antibody treatment I've been having. It has knocked out all my acquired immunity.

I will have to stick to social distancing and mask wearing etc. I will have to rely on the herd immunity afforded by all those for whom the vaccines have worked or who have acquired immunity through fighting off the virus.

Please do remember that the presence of antibodies in your system not only protects you but also those around you.

Anyhow for now I'll be one of those people still wearing a mask, trying to keep two metres apart and looking anxious when those around me act like this whole thing is done and dusted and its alright again, like it ever was, to barge into and push past eacher other in shops etc.

Please do continue to spare a thought for us strange folk who are still wearing masks and acting like we're still in the middle of lockdown. Many illnesses, short and longterm, deprive us of a fully functioning immune system. The journey is real.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys a wonderful day. 😁
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

61 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
xx99xx said:
rfsteel said:
Yet no one talks about the previous modelled predictions and what really happened;



https://data.spectator.co.uk/city/national
'assuming no changes in policy'. But there were changes in policy so what actually happened is no measure of model accuracy.
Look how they did such a great job of saving us from all that death and destruction. All hail the lockdown gods.

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Blib said:
I've just received this from a close mate of mine who has been through the wringer thus past couple of years.

Jason said:
So, it turns out that although I have had both rounds of vaccination I still have no antibodies against Covid.

The haematology department at University College Hospital London, along with others are testing all of their cancer patients and I understand that my response is fairly typical.

They don't know if it is the cancer or the treatment that is preventing the vaccines from working but my money is on all the antibody treatment I've been having. It has knocked out all my acquired immunity.

I will have to stick to social distancing and mask wearing etc. I will have to rely on the herd immunity afforded by all those for whom the vaccines have worked or who have acquired immunity through fighting off the virus.

Please do remember that the presence of antibodies in your system not only protects you but also those around you.

Anyhow for now I'll be one of those people still wearing a mask, trying to keep two metres apart and looking anxious when those around me act like this whole thing is done and dusted and its alright again, like it ever was, to barge into and push past eacher other in shops etc.

Please do continue to spare a thought for us strange folk who are still wearing masks and acting like we're still in the middle of lockdown. Many illnesses, short and longterm, deprive us of a fully functioning immune system. The journey is real.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys a wonderful day. ??
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.
Do cancer treatment patients have T-cell immunity?

Constant antibody production is not a normal bodily state of existence, AIUI, and they naturally fade after time.

Of course, the current narrative is that we must all have antibodies at all times and therefore must get regular jabs ad infinitum...


I am sure I have also read elsewhere that some healthy people don't produce antibodies yet have fought off SARS-CoV-2 successfully.

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Tuesday 11th May 11:35

Brave Fart

5,680 posts

110 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Look how they did such a great job of saving us from all that death and destruction. All hail the lockdown gods.
It's funny that you say that, Mark. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, and we remarked that the last time we'd had a get together was on October 31st last year - take away Indian followed by watching Strictly Come Dancing (I know, I know).
Just before Strictly they did the covid briefing where the Brothers Grim highlighted the "4,000 deaths a day" scenario.
"Well", said my friend, "it could have been worse I suppose."
"Really?" I said. "The last few months of lockdown have been horrible."
"Yeah, but lockdown saved us from 4,000 deaths a day, didn't it? And then the vaccine saved the day. Well done Boris, I say."

Which just goes to show how important the message, the emphasis, the presentation really is. My mate doesn't remember "it's a bunch of possible models if we do nothing", he remembers "4,000 a day will die if we don't lockdown like Boris tells us."

And of course, when Boris pops up before Strictly 2021 saying: "Alas, my friends, we must close everything again. Lockdown is necessary", people will say "blimey, not again. Oh well, at least we know it works." rolleyes

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
RSTurboPaul said:
Do cancer treatment patients have T-cell immunity?

Constant antibody production is not a normal bodily state of existence, AIUI, and they naturally fade after time.

Of course, the current narrative is that we must all have antibodies at all times and therefore must get regular jabs ad infinitum...


I am sure I have also read elsewhere that some healthy people don't produce antibodies yet have fought off SARS-CoV-2 successfully.
Aren't T-cells related to bone marrow in some way? I suspect if cancer treatments don't really affect those then they may have the antibody memory to produce those for SARS-CoV-2 in the future?

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

61 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Brave Fart said:
markyb_lcy said:
Look how they did such a great job of saving us from all that death and destruction. All hail the lockdown gods.
It's funny that you say that, Mark. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, and we remarked that the last time we'd had a get together was on October 31st last year - take away Indian followed by watching Strictly Come Dancing (I know, I know).
Just before Strictly they did the covid briefing where the Brothers Grim highlighted the "4,000 deaths a day" scenario.
"Well", said my friend, "it could have been worse I suppose."
"Really?" I said. "The last few months of lockdown have been horrible."
"Yeah, but lockdown saved us from 4,000 deaths a day, didn't it? And then the vaccine saved the day. Well done Boris, I say."

Which just goes to show how important the message, the emphasis, the presentation really is. My mate doesn't remember "it's a bunch of possible models if we do nothing", he remembers "4,000 a day will die if we don't lockdown like Boris tells us."

And of course, when Boris pops up before Strictly 2021 saying: "Alas, my friends, we must close everything again. Lockdown is necessary", people will say "blimey, not again. Oh well, at least we know it works." rolleyes
SAGE and the govt sure know what they're doing with all this “modelling”. It doesn’t have to be accurate, and it doesn’t have to mean anything. All it needs to do is suggest to the mentally challenged, that the govt is doing a great job by “following the science” and implementing the wonderful tool of lockdowns. One wonders if at any point govt and SAGE saw fit to model the societal cost of lockdowns (and effect on non-covid public health). If they have done this, then it doesn’t appear to be freely available to us, yet these covid models are plastered all over mainstream news. It’s scandalous, and imo anti-science.

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Do cancer treatment patients have T-cell immunity?

Constant antibody production is not a normal bodily state of existence, AIUI, and they naturally fade after time.

Of course, the current narrative is that we must all have antibodies at all times and therefore must get regular jabs ad infinitum...


I am sure I have also read elsewhere that some healthy people don't produce antibodies yet have fought off SARS-CoV-2 successfully.
Aren't T-cells related to bone marrow in some way? I suspect if cancer treatments don't really affect those then they may have the antibody memory to produce those for SARS-CoV-2 in the future?
Annoying script pop-up stopping easy reading but:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/no...

Telegraph said:
But if recovered patients do not always develop antibodies specific to today’s virus, it raises another question: How are they fighting off the disease it causes?

The most likely other candidate leading the body’s fight back against the virus is the T cell.


T cells are part two of a three-phase response to infection.

If you are unlucky enough to encounter the virus, it begins to bind to receptors in the mucus membranes at the back of your nose and throat. At that point, with the detection of a foreign protein in the body, the first immune phase kicks in. So-called “non-specific” immune cells, which respond to any invader instantly, set about tackling it. If they cannot, back-up is summoned: T cells.

The involvement of T cells in the body’s response to Covid-19 was not clear until a pair of recent studies, one German one American, confirmed their presence in recovering patients.


They take two forms: “helper” T cells and “killer” T cells. The latter attacks the virus directly and, says Sikora, “usually gobble it up”.

“If they don’t,” he adds, “and the virus gets into the blood system.” It is then that the third line of defence (which “helper” T cells play a part in activating), kicks in. “It is called the ‘B-cell system’,” says Sikora “and it is this which makes antibodies.”


He says it is entirely possible that the initial two layers of the immune response deal in some cases with the SARS-Cov-2 virus without the production of antibodies, leading to useless tests and disappointed customers.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Tuesday 11th May 12:00

isaldiri

18,416 posts

167 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Blib said:
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.
Unfortunately for your friend, he was at risk pre covid with an affected immune response and he's still at risk now albeit overall perhaps at (very/ slightly higher overall risk. He should be essentially taking the exact same precautions (mainly keeping away from symptomatic people) now as previously. Not entirely sure why or what you suggest that message 'speaks for itself' about.

danllama

5,728 posts

141 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Blib said:
I've just received this from a close mate of mine who has been through the wringer thus past couple of years.

Jason said:
So, it turns out that although I have had both rounds of vaccination I still have no antibodies against Covid.

The haematology department at University College Hospital London, along with others are testing all of their cancer patients and I understand that my response is fairly typical.

They don't know if it is the cancer or the treatment that is preventing the vaccines from working but my money is on all the antibody treatment I've been having. It has knocked out all my acquired immunity.

I will have to stick to social distancing and mask wearing etc. I will have to rely on the herd immunity afforded by all those for whom the vaccines have worked or who have acquired immunity through fighting off the virus.

Please do remember that the presence of antibodies in your system not only protects you but also those around you.

Anyhow for now I'll be one of those people still wearing a mask, trying to keep two metres apart and looking anxious when those around me act like this whole thing is done and dusted and its alright again, like it ever was, to barge into and push past eacher other in shops etc.

Please do continue to spare a thought for us strange folk who are still wearing masks and acting like we're still in the middle of lockdown. Many illnesses, short and longterm, deprive us of a fully functioning immune system. The journey is real.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys a wonderful day. ??
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.
Is 12 months of societal deprivation not enough for him? It's nobody's fault he has cancer and is at higher risk. We each have our own cross to bear.

Edited by danllama on Tuesday 11th May 12:03

21TonyK

11,494 posts

208 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Blib said:
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.
If he isn't already aware pass on to your mate, google "AZD7442". Its being seen as a potential vaccine based on antibodies as opposed to your own body creating them.

It's in trial at the moment and hopefully available early next year.

Boringvolvodriver

8,631 posts

42 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
SAGE and the govt sure know what they're doing with all this “modelling”. It doesn’t have to be accurate, and it doesn’t have to mean anything. All it needs to do is suggest to the mentally challenged, that the govt is doing a great job by “following the science” and implementing the wonderful tool of lockdowns. One wonders if at any point govt and SAGE saw fit to model the societal cost of lockdowns (and effect on non-covid public health). If they have done this, then it doesn’t appear to be freely available to us, yet these covid models are plastered all over mainstream news. It’s scandalous, and imo anti-science.
Wasn’t that the one where they showed the extremely dodgy graphs which many of us spotted straight away? And then had to be retracted because they were, to put it politely, rubbish.


Ntv

5,177 posts

122 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
True, then again if one group are back and forth to India over recent weeks, they are high risk, and should be treated as such.

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

61 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Boringvolvodriver said:
markyb_lcy said:
SAGE and the govt sure know what they're doing with all this “modelling”. It doesn’t have to be accurate, and it doesn’t have to mean anything. All it needs to do is suggest to the mentally challenged, that the govt is doing a great job by “following the science” and implementing the wonderful tool of lockdowns. One wonders if at any point govt and SAGE saw fit to model the societal cost of lockdowns (and effect on non-covid public health). If they have done this, then it doesn’t appear to be freely available to us, yet these covid models are plastered all over mainstream news. It’s scandalous, and imo anti-science.
Wasn’t that the one where they showed the extremely dodgy graphs which many of us spotted straight away? And then had to be retracted because they were, to put it politely, rubbish.
Yep, it was the one presented in autumn last year. It was presented alongside some regional graphs, one of which, Witty, on TV stated “as you can see it’s going up” whilst a graph on screen at the time showed it going down.

This is the level we are dealing with.

SCEtoAUX

4,119 posts

80 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
danllama said:
Anyone who thinks it isn't a coordinated assault on our way of life is extremely deluded. None of us will be better off for it. The deception should tell you all you need to know.
Correct.

paulw123

3,170 posts

189 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Talk on here of an almost certain ‘autumn lockdown’ surely any lockdown/restrictions just makes a mockery of everything we have endured the last 18months and renders Max vaccination somewhat pointless.

Colonel Cupcake

1,062 posts

44 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
danllama said:
Blib said:
I've just received this from a close mate of mine who has been through the wringer thus past couple of years.

Jason said:
So, it turns out that although I have had both rounds of vaccination I still have no antibodies against Covid.

The haematology department at University College Hospital London, along with others are testing all of their cancer patients and I understand that my response is fairly typical.

They don't know if it is the cancer or the treatment that is preventing the vaccines from working but my money is on all the antibody treatment I've been having. It has knocked out all my acquired immunity.

I will have to stick to social distancing and mask wearing etc. I will have to rely on the herd immunity afforded by all those for whom the vaccines have worked or who have acquired immunity through fighting off the virus.

Please do remember that the presence of antibodies in your system not only protects you but also those around you.

Anyhow for now I'll be one of those people still wearing a mask, trying to keep two metres apart and looking anxious when those around me act like this whole thing is done and dusted and its alright again, like it ever was, to barge into and push past eacher other in shops etc.

Please do continue to spare a thought for us strange folk who are still wearing masks and acting like we're still in the middle of lockdown. Many illnesses, short and longterm, deprive us of a fully functioning immune system. The journey is real.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys a wonderful day. ??
It speaks for itself. So, I'll just leave it.
Is 12 months of societal deprivation not enough for him? It's nobody's fault he has cancer and is at higher risk. We each have our own cross to bear.

Edited by danllama on Tuesday 11th May 12:03
Up until early 2020, I had never seen anyone wearing a mask in public in all my 53 years.

Maybe cancer is one of those new-fangled conditions that only surfaced last year, or maybe other infections have no effect on cancer sufferers. Just Covid.

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Tuesday 11th May 2021
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
https://youtu.be/Zd4GFaCXAKc

Simple presentation of what’s happened.
This is really excellent, thanks for posting.
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