UK approves Pfizer jab for use in 12-15-year-olds

[gizlaroc]

MX5Biologist said:

But substantially wrong, misleading.

More than happy to be corrected on it.

[pavarotti1980]

gizlaroc said:

More than happy to be corrected on it.

I think MX5 might actually work in this field...

[NRS]

unident said:

NRS said:

unident said:

Of course I believe the vaccines work. All of them. I’ve had AZ. I haven’t died to death from my blood completely solidifying. The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots. However, that’s a different discussion

I’m happy to discuss my opinion but there’s little to discuss.

Vaccines work
Vaccines are the way out of this
There are far too many anti-vax conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers on Pistonheads
It isn’t a clever or knowledgeable position just because said anti-vaxxer is opposed to the current plan but that’s what they believe.

Just wondering why you the experts who know more than you or I ever will have either put strong restrictions (for example UK) or banned it altogether (Norway, Denmark as a few examples) if covid clotting is a much higher risk than AZ?

I'd agree there is a bunch of nutters on PH who there's not much chance of reasoning with, but I'd suspect some are less nutters than you might think, when reading exactly what they are saying. Of course it's not easy sometimes as any argument will be used to help a case, but there is a lot more grey area betwen Vaccines = perfection and vaccines = space aliens trying to control us.

Some countries have suspended the use of one vaccine in some age groups. That’s a far cry from what you were inferring with “experts have stopped it due to the risks we have seen”

Once again, this thread isn’t about AZ. As a result this is the last time I’m going to answer or make any point around it, you’re welcome to carry on heading off in any direction you want though.

I agree with your point on the extremes. However, I’ve never claimed vaccines are perfect. Equally, look at some of the posts on here. You’ve got gizlaroc posting all sorts of drivel and others lapping it up, as if he’s just discovered the wheel.

No, it's completely banned in some countries, not just for age groups. I wouldn't mention it other than you said "The risk that one vaccine poses on blood clots is minimal compared to the risk that Covid presents with blood clots.". If this is the case why do the experts not agree IN SOME AGE GROUPS? It IS the case for older and other at risk people, but not for everyone. Why do you think you know better than the experts whose job it is to check these things?

monkfish1 said:

I never suggested it was a conspiracy. However, it doesnt alter the fact that we were told vaccination is the key to a return to normal. Until we had the most succesful vaccination program in the world. Then we moved the goalposts. I mean, even Theresa May yesterday ,was demanding to know what the delay was given many other countries are further down the road towards normal than we are with way less vaccination.

My statement stands, it clear, vaccination isnt getting us the release from restrictions that we were promised.

The reasons why are a seperate debate, but even the most optimistic must see now that the promise has turned out to be a lie.

I understand why you thought I might be saying that, but it was more just if you did think it was government control, rather than saying you did for sure. I think it's clear the vaccines will get us out, but due to media pressure the government is being more careful and moving slowly (likely as they got it wrong at the start when they kept the borders open too long. This is with hindsight - I supported them at the time, but got it wrong too. Same as when I went on rants about the banning of AZ here).

[gizlaroc]

pavarotti1980 said:

gizlaroc said:

More than happy to be corrected on it.

I think MX5 might actually work in this field...

Yeah, hence I am more than happy for him to correct it.

[pavarotti1980]

gizlaroc said:

Yeah, hence I am more than happy for him to correct it.

Im sure he will

[gizlaroc]

pavarotti1980 said:

Im sure he will

I tried to be as accurate as I can, basically copied and pasted how the tech works from the CDC website, then described why it was going wrong in the same laymen's terms as Dr. Robert Malone, the guy who invented mRNA, did on this video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1pEtrEr2_s&t=...

Worth watching from 35 minutes in.


I say Laymen's terms as that is what I am, and that is my level of understanding.

But in the discussion of Unident saying it is not experimental, I stand by my comments that it most certainly is, and when you have the guy who invented it saying we can change the rules and get a government body to say it is not experimental, but that doesn't automatically make it so.




But would love MX5 to point out why it is wrong. I posted before that no mRNA trial previously had not failed drastically and isaldiri pointed out that was crap and there had been two that had not ended with the test subjects dying. I held my hands up and went and found the trials and learnt something.
That also made me feel a bit better about the mRNA tech too going forward.

Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 11th June 09:21

[johnboy1975]

monkfish1 said:

I never suggested it was a conspiracy. However, it doesnt alter the fact that we were told vaccination is the key to a return to normal. Until we had the most succesful vaccination program in the world. Then we moved the goalposts. I mean, even Theresa May yesterday ,was demanding to know what the delay was given many other countries are further down the road towards normal than we are with way less vaccination.

My statement stands, it clear, vaccination isnt getting us the release from restrictions that we were promised.

The reasons why are a seperate debate, but even the most optimistic must see now that the promise has turned out to be a lie.

Indeed. And far from setting us free faster, jabbing 12-15 year olds will just further delay the process until the autumn, as it will take time to double jab all the little angels.

By which time we will need a further excuse, such as cases of a seasonal respiratory virus rising seasonally

If we are ahead on all the metrics including vaccination, why would we delay opening to vaccinate more people? Surely they planned for "x first dose, y second dose" (*)

Whats more worrying is the project fear nudge department seem to have got 52% of the population begging for continued restrictions (*)

(*) (to both points). Delta variant Maybe they should have kept the bloody thing out? Just a thought. Pakistan had a higher positivity percentage of the delta variant (I think?) - how many cases have been traced back to Pakistan travel matters? Zero, or damn close (as far as I'm aware)

[unident]

johnboy1975 said:

Indeed. And far from setting us free faster, jabbing 12-15 year olds will just further delay the process until the autumn, as it will take time to double jab all the little angels.

By which time we will need a further excuse, such as cases of a seasonal respiratory virus rising seasonally

If we are ahead on all the metrics including vaccination, why would we delay opening to vaccinate more people? Surely they planned for "x first dose, y second dose" (*)

Whats more worrying is the project fear nudge department seem to have got 52% of the population begging for continued restrictions (*)

(*) (to both points). Delta variant Maybe they should have kept the bloody thing out? Just a thought. Pakistan had a higher positivity percentage of the delta variant (I think?) - how many cases have been traced back to Pakistan travel matters? Zero, or damn close (as far as I'm aware)

Why does vaccinating the kids delay things? Not that we are vaccinating them.

How would you have “kept the damn thing out?”given it appears to be everywhere now?

[gizlaroc]

unident said:

Why does vaccinating the kids delay things? Not that we are vaccinating them.

How would you have “kept the damn thing out?”given it appears to be everywhere now?

Is it everywhere?

Or even if it is, is that a problem?

Death rates from it are through the floor, far lower than we normally get from flu.



We need to just crack on now, if you feel you are vulnerable, stay indoors?

[unident]

gizlaroc said:

unident said:

Why does vaccinating the kids delay things? Not that we are vaccinating them.

How would you have “kept the damn thing out?”given it appears to be everywhere now?

Is it everywhere?

Or even if it is, is that a problem?

Death rates from it are through the floor, far lower than we normally get from flu.



We need to just crack on now, if you feel you are vulnerable, stay indoors?

Not a single point you’ve raised relates to anything give written so I’ll just walk on by.

[gizlaroc]

unident said:

Not a single point you’ve raised relates to anything give written so I’ll just walk on by.

Why do you always have to be like that?


I was simply replying to 'keeping the damned thing out" comment.

I was just saying, if we have it running wild, yet people are not getting seriously ill in high numbers, and hardly anyone dying (as people always do, all the time, of all sorts of things) does it matter any more if we keep this out or in?


It's a question.

Surely that is sort of what we want?


Maybe keeping things locked down everywhere and trying to stop it spreading from country to country isn't the best plan?


Like I have said from the start, when we get to the end of this, or 2-3 years in when we start to see less deaths normally, I bet the deaths per 100k will be very similar no matter where you are or when you locked down.

[unident]

gizlaroc said:

unident said:

Not a single point you’ve raised relates to anything give written so I’ll just walk on by.

Why do you always have to be like that?


I was simply replying to 'keeping the damned thing out" comment.

I was just saying, if we have it running wild, yet people are not getting seriously ill in high numbers, and hardly anyone dying (as people always do, all the time, of all sorts of things) does it matter any more if we keep this out or in?


It's a question.

Surely that is sort of what we want?


Maybe keeping things locked down everywhere and trying to stop it spreading from country to country isn't the best plan?


Like I have said from the start, when we get to the end of this, or 2-3 years in when we start to see less deaths normally, I bet the deaths per 100k will be very similar no matter where you are or when you locked down.

Because it wasn’t me who said “keep the damned thing out” in the first place. I asked the person who wrote it how they would have “kept the damn thing out”

[gizlaroc]

unident said:

Because it wasn’t me who said “keep the damned thing out” in the first place. I asked the person who wrote it how they would have “kept the damn thing out”

Yeah.

[NRS]

Australia and a few others have shown it's possible to keep it out. But of course it's easier for them as they're not nearly so interconnected with nearby countries like us. There also doesn't seem to be much reason to, given the 90% or so of people with antibodies in the UK now (from jabs or having been infected).

It will be a big question going forward though - when the UK does open due to the vaccine coverage what will be the strategy going forward. Go back to normal? Or keep the borders closed, to avoid potentially importing a mutation that dodges the vaccine, meaning a need to start again (given how people seem to view covid)?

[unident]

gizlaroc said:

unident said:

Because it wasn’t me who said “keep the damned thing out” in the first place. I asked the person who wrote it how they would have “kept the damn thing out”

Yeah.

See below in bold

johnboy1975 said:

Indeed. And far from setting us free faster, jabbing 12-15 year olds will just further delay the process until the autumn, as it will take time to double jab all the little angels.

By which time we will need a further excuse, such as cases of a seasonal respiratory virus rising seasonally

If we are ahead on all the metrics including vaccination, why would we delay opening to vaccinate more people? Surely they planned for "x first dose, y second dose" (*)

Whats more worrying is the project fear nudge department seem to have got 52% of the population begging for continued restrictions (*)

(*) (to both points). Delta variant Maybe they should have kept the bloody thing out? Just a thought. Pakistan had a higher positivity percentage of the delta variant (I think?) - how many cases have been traced back to Pakistan travel matters? Zero, or damn close (as far as I'm aware)

[gizlaroc]

Yeah.....?


It was a discussion, he said about keeping it out, you asked how were we meant to keep it out, I replied does it matter either way?


It was just a conversation evolving. Well I was trying to start a conversation to stop any bickering. Never mind.

[SS2.]

Didn't take long for the jungle drums to start beating, suggesting a link between Eriksen's [suspected] cardiac event and his recent Pfizer jab.

[unident]

SS2. said:

Didn't take long for the jungle drums to start beating, suggesting a link between Eriksen's [suspected] cardiac event and his recent Pfizer jab.

I’m sitting in the pub and said that some idiot would suggest that soon enough.

Guess we’ll just have to wait for every other player to suffer the same then.

And it’s bang out of order for people to make up st like that when someone life is on the line.

[scottyp123]

unident said:

SS2. said:

Didn't take long for the jungle drums to start beating, suggesting a link between Eriksen's [suspected] cardiac event and his recent Pfizer jab.

I’m sitting in the pub and said that some idiot would suggest that soon enough.

Guess we’ll just have to wait for every other player to suffer the same then.

And it’s bang out of order for people to make up st like that when someone life is on the line.

Has he been vaccinated though? I've no idea. If he has when was it done, sports stars put their body through all sorts of abuse daily and its a very rare event for one of them to suffer a problem like this, you just never hear of it. But there are several stories of people keeling over after having the vaccine, that's not a conspiracy theory its even been caught on camera.

I have absolutely no idea what has happened to him or indeed anything about him but if it turns out he has had a reaction to the vaccine then that is the vaccine roll out finished for good, they might as well pack up the needles and burn them.

[unident]

scottyp123 said:

Has he been vaccinated though? I've no idea. If he has when was it done, sports stars put their body through all sorts of abuse daily and its a very rare event for one of them to suffer a problem like this, you just never hear of it. But there are several stories of people keeling over after having the vaccine, that's not a conspiracy theory its even been caught on camera.

I have absolutely no idea what has happened to him or indeed anything about him but if it turns out he has had a reaction to the vaccine then that is the vaccine roll out finished for good, they might as well pack up the needles and burn them.

So no overreaction there then just a complete set of assumptions leading to a doomsday scenario for the vaccines.

You are aware that sportspeople have suffered major events previously? Or are you choosing to ignore that to suit your narrative.

Once again very poor form to try to use this event to push your own tinfoil hat drivel.