Are Universities now just woke nurseries.
Discussion
Countdown said:
Teddy Lop said:
Probably. I'm still not sure how it relates to my comments though?
It was in relation to you suggesting Electro wasn't capable of critical thinking. I'll try to explainYou suggest (and I don't disagree) that 88% of people are generally centrist, and you probably agree that also applies to students. yet you state that "typically outwardly lefty (although theres a lot that aren't that feel the environment demands they suppress but that's probably drifting to another discussion)" which is just nonsensical, from a "critical thinking" aspect.
Why would a centrist student want to appear outwardly lefty?
Why is it only the "centrist students who want to appear lefty" that aren't suppressing their views whilst other centrist students (who presumably don't want to appear outwardly lefty or outwardly righty or even outwardly centrist) ARE suppressing their views?
Not only is it nonsensical, it contradicts the OP's assertion - that Universities are some kind of hotbeds for lefty-breeding.
Wanting to be seen as lefty, or as "definably-not-right-wing" which is far more common today and not really the same, doesn't preclude the individual being of an overall centrist mindset. Being centrist doesn't mean you can't lean one way. Why would a student want to be seen as lefty? Again I could answer but it's not pertinent to the point I was making, suffice to say the political left/right divide is being defined as a binary all thats good/all thats bad in many quarters.
Universities are lefty leaning but that doesn't mean they have to pander to the extremist end. I think the hive mind/collectivist aspect of leftiness does make them sympathetic of their nut jobs in a way the right aren't, but they assume are.
Countdown said:
If you consider 88% of the general population to be centrist then (in the context of this thread) why should the student population be any different? I.e surely it makes sense for 88% of the student population to be centrist as well....?
Because on average they have more growing up to do than the general population.Teddy Lop said:
Universities are lefty leaning but that doesn't mean they have to pander to the extremist end. I think the hive mind/collectivist aspect of leftiness does make them sympathetic of their nut jobs in a way the right aren't, but they assume are.
This is an extremely common thinking error that is called the ‘out group homogeneity effect’. i.e. Christians can think that their extremist/radical Christians are nut jobs who are unrepresentative of the bulk of their faith, but that extremist Muslims are more like all Muslims than they really are. Or TVR drivers think Porsche evangelists are representative of all Porsche drivers, but RAFDUG is not representative of all TVR drivers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneit...
Countdown said:
Teddy Lop said:
Sorry not sure I understand your question. What difference did I attach to university students, beyond typically outwardly lefty (although theres a lot that aren't that feel the environment demands they suppress but that's probably drifting to another discussion)
The 88% is widely used to describe people of centrist non radical position in society, the problem is that a lot of (certainly the more vocal) people don't seem to appreciate that they and the "other side" within that 88 are much more alike than different, not that a difference is a problem, it precisely isn't.
If you consider 88% of the general population to be centrist then (in the context of this thread) why should the student population be any different? I.e surely it makes sense for 88% of the student population to be centrist as well....?The 88% is widely used to describe people of centrist non radical position in society, the problem is that a lot of (certainly the more vocal) people don't seem to appreciate that they and the "other side" within that 88 are much more alike than different, not that a difference is a problem, it precisely isn't.
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
You mean people complaining they are not allowed to be racist.
This sentiment perfectly summarises the problem at the heart of this and much more, the inability to think critically about your own beliefs and the arguement being presented and accommodate differing beliefs as being a vital component of a free society, and instead having this specter representing all thats vile image that one attaches to anyone who deviates from the correct opinion on any topic. While this exists on both left and right the left are far more susceptible to it because of the herd mentality - it affects those who should exhibit the intelligence to know better. (Don't worry kiddies the right have their traps too) I've known lefties who suffer from this all my life but it does seem much more prevalent today, many think it's an effect of social media. I guess the universities simply *have* to be the most progressive, so if such attitudes are more prevalent in society (which with the uptick in university education they will be) then the universities have to go even more extreme to maintain its position relative to mainstream. 88% of people are considered to be of centrist position ie not radical/extremist ends of left/right, and this 88% have far more in common with each other and what they want from life than they do with said extremists. Calling anyone who arrives at the apparent right-wing conclusion a racist is itself bigotry, it is akin to me the non-believer considering a Muslim man completely fundamentally incompatible for his beliefs, whereas the truth is he just wants the best life possible for himself and those important to him, he has a different aspect in one regard to achieving that, but for the most part he's exactly like me.
Where have I made any claims about what the far-right do?
The hiding I see most apparent, is the inability to correctly observe 45% of the population and instead hiding them behind an idiot 5%
FWIW I have no doubt all sorts of nasty people exploit the ideals of free speech; I don't think that free speech is the cause or its curtailment the solution though. Every tyrant of both the right and left has restricted free speech to the bits they approve of.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
You mean people complaining they are not allowed to be racist.
This sentiment perfectly summarises the problem at the heart of this and much more, the inability to think critically about your own beliefs and the arguement being presented and accommodate differing beliefs as being a vital component of a free society, and instead having this specter representing all thats vile image that one attaches to anyone who deviates from the correct opinion on any topic. While this exists on both left and right the left are far more susceptible to it because of the herd mentality - it affects those who should exhibit the intelligence to know better. (Don't worry kiddies the right have their traps too) I've known lefties who suffer from this all my life but it does seem much more prevalent today, many think it's an effect of social media. I guess the universities simply *have* to be the most progressive, so if such attitudes are more prevalent in society (which with the uptick in university education they will be) then the universities have to go even more extreme to maintain its position relative to mainstream. 88% of people are considered to be of centrist position ie not radical/extremist ends of left/right, and this 88% have far more in common with each other and what they want from life than they do with said extremists. Calling anyone who arrives at the apparent right-wing conclusion a racist is itself bigotry, it is akin to me the non-believer considering a Muslim man completely fundamentally incompatible for his beliefs, whereas the truth is he just wants the best life possible for himself and those important to him, he has a different aspect in one regard to achieving that, but for the most part he's exactly like me.
Where have I made any claims about what the far-right do?
The hiding I see most apparent, is the inability to correctly observe 45% of the population and instead hiding them behind an idiot 5%
FWIW I have no doubt all sorts of nasty people exploit the ideals of free speech; I don't think that free speech is the cause or its curtailment the solution though. Every tyrant of both the right and left has restricted free speech to the bits they approve of.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Electro1980 said:
Accusations of hypocrisy and criticism of my critical thinking? Oh the irony.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Yet again that's another arguement, while I know it goes on and it's a closely linked issue, the point I'm making here isn't about the supression of free speechPlease do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Not-The-Messiah said:
Demographics, try going to uni and learning about it.
Perhaps you could educate me. I’m assuming you know all about it rather than just trying to sound clever.1. What’s the difference in demographics between 18-25 year olds who go to University and 18-25 year olds that don’t?
2. Is there a difference in political views between the above groups and if so, how has demographics influenced this?
ks they where spouting.Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
Accusations of hypocrisy and criticism of my critical thinking? Oh the irony.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Yet again that's another arguement, while I know it goes on and it's a closely linked issue, the point I'm making here isn't about the supression of free speechPlease do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
Accusations of hypocrisy and criticism of my critical thinking? Oh the irony.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
Yet again that's another arguement, while I know it goes on and it's a closely linked issue, the point I'm making here isn't about the supression of free speechPlease do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
I loved every minute of my university experience and will likely go back at some point. I found my university non judgemental and encouraging of critical thinking from all sides of the political and cultural argument, and the students came from all walks of life, a true microcosm of society. This is a very interstong thread with some excellent contributions, and it is intersting that others experiences have not mirrored mine, but then we do tend to make our judgments within our own lived exoerience, which can mean a somewhat narrow set of parameters...as is forming our opinions from reading one newspaper or watching one news channel.
biggbn said:
I loved every minute of my university experience and will likely go back at some point. I found my university non judgemental and encouraging of critical thinking from all sides of the political and cultural argument, and the students came from all walks of life, a true microcosm of society. This is a very interstong thread with some excellent contributions, and it is intersting that others experiences have not mirrored mine, but then we do tend to make our judgments within our own lived exoerience, which can mean a somewhat narrow set of parameters...as is forming our opinions from reading one newspaper or watching one news channel.
I've been fortunate enough to go back and do an employer funded MBA. Our Course Director was an ex-PTI in the British Army, has led various mountain climbing expeditions, as well as running the Marathon des Sables. When the Universities are full of lefties like this is it any wonder why students are such liberal snowflakes 
Countdown said:
biggbn said:
I loved every minute of my university experience and will likely go back at some point. I found my university non judgemental and encouraging of critical thinking from all sides of the political and cultural argument, and the students came from all walks of life, a true microcosm of society. This is a very interstong thread with some excellent contributions, and it is intersting that others experiences have not mirrored mine, but then we do tend to make our judgments within our own lived exoerience, which can mean a somewhat narrow set of parameters...as is forming our opinions from reading one newspaper or watching one news channel.
I've been fortunate enough to go back and do an employer funded MBA. Our Course Director was an ex-PTI in the British Army, has led various mountain climbing expeditions, as well as running the Marathon des Sables. When the Universities are full of lefties like this is it any wonder why students are such liberal snowflakes HustleRussell said:
I love it when people attempt to weaponise the word ‘woke’ and use it in a derisory context. Without any conversation whatsoever, it immediately betrays the entrenched prejudice of those people.
Agreed, the thread title is not a question at all, it is a statement, the language used betrays its provocative purpose. Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
Teddy Lop said:
Electro1980 said:
You mean people complaining they are not allowed to be racist.
This sentiment perfectly summarises the problem at the heart of this and much more, the inability to think critically about your own beliefs and the arguement being presented and accommodate differing beliefs as being a vital component of a free society, and instead having this specter representing all thats vile image that one attaches to anyone who deviates from the correct opinion on any topic. While this exists on both left and right the left are far more susceptible to it because of the herd mentality - it affects those who should exhibit the intelligence to know better. (Don't worry kiddies the right have their traps too) I've known lefties who suffer from this all my life but it does seem much more prevalent today, many think it's an effect of social media. I guess the universities simply *have* to be the most progressive, so if such attitudes are more prevalent in society (which with the uptick in university education they will be) then the universities have to go even more extreme to maintain its position relative to mainstream. 88% of people are considered to be of centrist position ie not radical/extremist ends of left/right, and this 88% have far more in common with each other and what they want from life than they do with said extremists. Calling anyone who arrives at the apparent right-wing conclusion a racist is itself bigotry, it is akin to me the non-believer considering a Muslim man completely fundamentally incompatible for his beliefs, whereas the truth is he just wants the best life possible for himself and those important to him, he has a different aspect in one regard to achieving that, but for the most part he's exactly like me.
Where have I made any claims about what the far-right do?
The hiding I see most apparent, is the inability to correctly observe 45% of the population and instead hiding them behind an idiot 5%
FWIW I have no doubt all sorts of nasty people exploit the ideals of free speech; I don't think that free speech is the cause or its curtailment the solution though. Every tyrant of both the right and left has restricted free speech to the bits they approve of.
Please do show me examples of where people in the U.K. have had their free speech curtailed for expressing none extremist views. And, no, free speech is not the right to say what you want without criticism.
As an outside observation then I wouldn't worry too much about your lack of critical thinking.
I think your lack of ability to think at all should be your first concern.
I would guess those that think Universities have only recently become centres of left wing thoughts have either never gone to uni, or only gone recently and think this is something new.
When I went in the early 90s, well before Blair’s changes, certain facility & the student unions were extremely left wing, and routinely ignored by the majority of students. Indeed when the student union organised strikes against the introduction of loans the only lecturers that were cancelled was because the lecturer didn’t turn up.
When I went in the early 90s, well before Blair’s changes, certain facility & the student unions were extremely left wing, and routinely ignored by the majority of students. Indeed when the student union organised strikes against the introduction of loans the only lecturers that were cancelled was because the lecturer didn’t turn up.
MBBlat said:
I would guess those that think Universities have only recently become centres of left wing thoughts have either never gone to uni, or only gone recently and think this is something new.
Indeed. As per the information previously posted, it's been around for decades and has been increasing steadily since the 60s-70s.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff