First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

[bunchofkeys]

https://babylonbee.com/news/female-weightlifter-su...

If only this was true

[J4CKO]

Say anything other than she should be allowed to compete and you get called Transphobic ? I am not in the least Transphobic as a phobia is an irrational fear and I have no fear of the Trans community.

At the other end you have someone who was born and developed as a male, trained as a weightlifter before transitioning so has physiology more akin to a male weightlifter than one that was born female and competes as a female.

Its an unusual set of circumstances and I don't believe it will create a rush for sportspeople to transition to gain an advantage, but stranger things have happened in sport, there is certainly previous with drugs, blood transfusions and god knows what.

So, come the Olympics when Laurel Hubbard probably gets the Gold based on that graph, is it because she is the best female weightlifter or because she was born male ?

Nobody actually wins in this situation, as if she does win, nobody will really consider it as a true victory. I wonder what the situation would be if she wanted to compete as a male again, would she be hampered by the reassignment and hormones relative to her pre operative performance ?

[anonymous-user]

J4CKO said:

Say anything other than she should be allowed to compete and you get called Transphobic ? I am not in the least Transphobic as a phobia is an irrational fear and I have no fear of the Trans community.

At the other end you have someone who was born and developed as a male, trained as a weightlifter before transitioning so has physiology more akin to a male weightlifter than one that was born female and competes as a female.

Its an unusual set of circumstances and I don't believe it will create a rush for sportspeople to transition to gain an advantage, but stranger things have happened in sport, there is certainly previous with drugs, blood transfusions and god knows what.

So, come the Olympics when Laurel Hubbard probably gets the Gold based on that graph, is it because she is the best female weightlifter or because she was born male ?

Nobody actually wins in this situation, as if she does win, nobody will really consider it as a true victory. I wonder what the situation would be if she wanted to compete as a male again, would she be hampered by the reassignment and hormones relative to her pre operative performance ?

He hasn’t had any operation or reassignment

[anonymous-user]

If a woman was caught taking testosterone as a PED they would be banned. Being born male and having a lifetime of male testosterone is a ridiculous advantage for a trans athlete over a woman.

[chrispmartha]

Iwantafusca said:

J4CKO said:

Say anything other than she should be allowed to compete and you get called Transphobic ? I am not in the least Transphobic as a phobia is an irrational fear and I have no fear of the Trans community.

At the other end you have someone who was born and developed as a male, trained as a weightlifter before transitioning so has physiology more akin to a male weightlifter than one that was born female and competes as a female.

Its an unusual set of circumstances and I don't believe it will create a rush for sportspeople to transition to gain an advantage, but stranger things have happened in sport, there is certainly previous with drugs, blood transfusions and god knows what.

So, come the Olympics when Laurel Hubbard probably gets the Gold based on that graph, is it because she is the best female weightlifter or because she was born male ?

Nobody actually wins in this situation, as if she does win, nobody will really consider it as a true victory. I wonder what the situation would be if she wanted to compete as a male again, would she be hampered by the reassignment and hormones relative to her pre operative performance ?

He hasn’t had any operation or reassignment

How do you know she hasn’t had any reassignment

[wst]

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? If not, is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

[ZedLeg]

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? Is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

I didn’t say they had to change the way they talk. I’m under no obligation to talk to them either though.

[anonymous-user]

8.4L 154 said:

chrispmartha said:

Iwantafusca said:

J4CKO said:

Say anything other than she should be allowed to compete and you get called Transphobic ? I am not in the least Transphobic as a phobia is an irrational fear and I have no fear of the Trans community.

At the other end you have someone who was born and developed as a male, trained as a weightlifter before transitioning so has physiology more akin to a male weightlifter than one that was born female and competes as a female.

Its an unusual set of circumstances and I don't believe it will create a rush for sportspeople to transition to gain an advantage, but stranger things have happened in sport, there is certainly previous with drugs, blood transfusions and god knows what.

So, come the Olympics when Laurel Hubbard probably gets the Gold based on that graph, is it because she is the best female weightlifter or because she was born male ?

Nobody actually wins in this situation, as if she does win, nobody will really consider it as a true victory. I wonder what the situation would be if she wanted to compete as a male again, would she be hampered by the reassignment and hormones relative to her pre operative performance ?

He hasn’t had any operation or reassignment

How do you know she hasn’t had any reassignment

I've seen reporting from someone who I trust to know and given they knew details like she has met the previous IOC requirements for 8 years and is the only female athlete competing with TOTAL androgen deprivation, so forget that 10mg/L Testosterone limit being higher than the female range, she will have less than 1mg/l and likely close to zero, so well below her cisgender competitors. So Iwantafusca is completely wrong and I assume is just following the trans critical narrative which is more often than not wrong also.

Source for these claims ? Rather than someone, someone, someone lol.





From Alison Heather , Professor of physiology at Otago University.


Male and female sports are separated for a reason. The world records in sporting events provides exhaustive evidence that males dominate athletic performance.

AH: Androgens have effects on male physiology that begin in utero, continue across infancy and then manifest during adolescent development. These effects include increasing heart size, lung capacity, bone development, muscle mass/and memory, as well as in utero effects of brain development.

Considering muscle memory first. There is a phenomena known as muscle memory whereby if you train hard and achieve larger, stronger muscles and then have a rest period (months, even years) where your muscles weaken and reduce in size, then go back to training again, the second time around the effort and time required to get back to the stronger muscles is less.

This occurs because when muscle cells grow (hypertrophy) they engulf the nuclei of neighbouring cells. Nuclei orchestrate the proteins needed for muscle growth. When the muscle cells weaken, and decrease in size during rest, or non-training phases, the nuclei remain.

So when you start back up again you have these protein generating machines ready to fire back up. The important thing for the trans female athlete is that testosterone enhances muscle memory.

Research has shown that testosterone increases the number of nuclei in muscle cells. So when a trans female transitions, inherently there will be more nuclei in the muscle cells to be called upon for muscle growth.

The second consideration is in utero and early life effects of testosterone on brain networks and later life male like behaviour.

This is a controversial research area, however there is little doubt from research-based studies that androgenisation of the male brain leads to male-like behaviours such as rough and tumble play, forming groups for combat play, and more aggressive play.

That it is androgenisation of the brain that leads to these behaviours is shown by females with congenital hyperplasia, a condition characterised by hyperandrogenism and in utero androgen exposure. Females with congenital hyperplasia show much more male-like behaviour than aged-match females (non-CAH).

In adult life, males tend to be more competitive than females. For example, USA data for 5km running events shows that one in three males are much more likely to run a time that is within 25 per cent of the world record time for the event. Even at recreational events, males are more predisposed to racing as fast as possible.


Lowering testosterone for one year with estrogen therapy does not reformat male physiology into female physiology, and this is an especially important consideration for elite athletes, where even small percentage advantages can make the difference between gold and silver.




Are you a transwoman or agp by any chance 8.4 ?

[wst]

ZedLeg said:

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? Is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

I didn’t say they had to change the way they talk. I’m under no obligation to talk to them either though.

It does make the sincerity of your participation in a conversation questionable if you threaten to flounce unless your specific interpretation of reality is laid out to be the only interpretation valid for use in the conversation. Would you accept those terms from somebody else, or are you just going to only talk with people who will happily concede a point right from the beginning without you having made any actual persuasive point to convince them of your point of view?

[ZedLeg]

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? Is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

I didn’t say they had to change the way they talk. I’m under no obligation to talk to them either though.

It does make the sincerity of your participation in a conversation questionable if you threaten to flounce unless your specific interpretation of reality is laid out to be the only interpretation valid for use in the conversation. Would you accept those terms from somebody else, or are you just going to only talk with people who will happily concede a point right from the beginning without you having made any actual persuasive point to convince them of your point of view?

From my point of view respecting someone’s pronouns is a common courtesy, if a person can’t do that they’re not worth talking to.

[chrispmartha]

Iwantafusca said:

8.4L 154 said:

chrispmartha said:

Iwantafusca said:

J4CKO said:

Say anything other than she should be allowed to compete and you get called Transphobic ? I am not in the least Transphobic as a phobia is an irrational fear and I have no fear of the Trans community.

At the other end you have someone who was born and developed as a male, trained as a weightlifter before transitioning so has physiology more akin to a male weightlifter than one that was born female and competes as a female.

Its an unusual set of circumstances and I don't believe it will create a rush for sportspeople to transition to gain an advantage, but stranger things have happened in sport, there is certainly previous with drugs, blood transfusions and god knows what.

So, come the Olympics when Laurel Hubbard probably gets the Gold based on that graph, is it because she is the best female weightlifter or because she was born male ?

Nobody actually wins in this situation, as if she does win, nobody will really consider it as a true victory. I wonder what the situation would be if she wanted to compete as a male again, would she be hampered by the reassignment and hormones relative to her pre operative performance ?

He hasn’t had any operation or reassignment

How do you know she hasn’t had any reassignment

I've seen reporting from someone who I trust to know and given they knew details like she has met the previous IOC requirements for 8 years and is the only female athlete competing with TOTAL androgen deprivation, so forget that 10mg/L Testosterone limit being higher than the female range, she will have less than 1mg/l and likely close to zero, so well below her cisgender competitors. So Iwantafusca is completely wrong and I assume is just following the trans critical narrative which is more often than not wrong also.

Source for these claims ? Rather than someone, someone, someone lol.





From Alison Heather , Professor of physiology at Otago University.


Male and female sports are separated for a reason. The world records in sporting events provides exhaustive evidence that males dominate athletic performance.

AH: Androgens have effects on male physiology that begin in utero, continue across infancy and then manifest during adolescent development. These effects include increasing heart size, lung capacity, bone development, muscle mass/and memory, as well as in utero effects of brain development.

Considering muscle memory first. There is a phenomena known as muscle memory whereby if you train hard and achieve larger, stronger muscles and then have a rest period (months, even years) where your muscles weaken and reduce in size, then go back to training again, the second time around the effort and time required to get back to the stronger muscles is less.

This occurs because when muscle cells grow (hypertrophy) they engulf the nuclei of neighbouring cells. Nuclei orchestrate the proteins needed for muscle growth. When the muscle cells weaken, and decrease in size during rest, or non-training phases, the nuclei remain.

So when you start back up again you have these protein generating machines ready to fire back up. The important thing for the trans female athlete is that testosterone enhances muscle memory.

Research has shown that testosterone increases the number of nuclei in muscle cells. So when a trans female transitions, inherently there will be more nuclei in the muscle cells to be called upon for muscle growth.

The second consideration is in utero and early life effects of testosterone on brain networks and later life male like behaviour.

This is a controversial research area, however there is little doubt from research-based studies that androgenisation of the male brain leads to male-like behaviours such as rough and tumble play, forming groups for combat play, and more aggressive play.

That it is androgenisation of the brain that leads to these behaviours is shown by females with congenital hyperplasia, a condition characterised by hyperandrogenism and in utero androgen exposure. Females with congenital hyperplasia show much more male-like behaviour than aged-match females (non-CAH).

In adult life, males tend to be more competitive than females. For example, USA data for 5km running events shows that one in three males are much more likely to run a time that is within 25 per cent of the world record time for the event. Even at recreational events, males are more predisposed to racing as fast as possible.


Lowering testosterone for one year with estrogen therapy does not reformat male physiology into female physiology, and this is an especially important consideration for elite athletes, where even small percentage advantages can make the difference between gold and silver.




Are you a transwoman or agp by any chance 8.4 ?

Again, how do you know she hasn’t gone through gender reassignment which is what you claimed.

[wst]

Reassignment or not is a red herring anyway, as shown by a 40something male athlete of no real prominence in male competitions somehow becoming a representative of his nation in a female Olympic sport, competing against weightlifting women in their athletic prime and mid-20's.

When was the last time a woman in her 40's was competitive in weightlifting against world class 20's women weightlifters, and what makes Laurel the exception? Regardless of reassignment, things do not add up.

[Gecko1978]

ZedLeg said:

wst said:

ZedLeg said:

It was from her own wiki and the wikis for the tournaments. I won't be responding to you again if you keep misgendering her.

Would it be reasonable for somebody else to say "I insist that you call Laurel Hubbard a man, and refer to him as he/him if not naming him directly"? Is it reasonable that you make a comparable demand of someone else to talk in a way that does not fit their perceived reality?

I didn’t say they had to change the way they talk. I’m under no obligation to talk to them either though.

Deliberately misgendering someone is offensive childish and petty. Laurel Hubbard far as I am aware goes by she her and I am happy to use thoes terms. My sole objection is her clear advantage to her cis competitors creating a gap that can never be overcome.

[chrispmartha]

wst said:

Reassignment or not is a red herring anyway, as shown by a 40something male athlete of no real prominence in male competitions somehow becoming a representative of his nation in a female Olympic sport, competing against weightlifting women in their athletic prime and mid-20's.

When was the last time a woman in her 40's was competitive in weightlifting against world class 20's women weightlifters, and what makes Laurel the exception? Regardless of reassignment, things do not add up.

That may be so, I’m just asking him to back up his claims.

[wst]

chrispmartha said:

wst said:

Reassignment or not is a red herring anyway, as shown by a 40something male athlete of no real prominence in male competitions somehow becoming a representative of his nation in a female Olympic sport, competing against weightlifting women in their athletic prime and mid-20's.

When was the last time a woman in her 40's was competitive in weightlifting against world class 20's women weightlifters, and what makes Laurel the exception? Regardless of reassignment, things do not add up.

That may be so, I’m just asking him to back up his claims.

Makes sense, though I am offering him a climbdown as I don't think there is evidence in that regard.

Gecko1978 said:

Deliberately misgendering someone is offensive childish and petty.

Only to people that subscribe to your specific worldview. To those who don't, the concept is as bizarre as the idea of "taking the Lord's name in vain" is to an atheist.

[Gecko1978]

wst said:

chrispmartha said:

wst said:

Reassignment or not is a red herring anyway, as shown by a 40something male athlete of no real prominence in male competitions somehow becoming a representative of his nation in a female Olympic sport, competing against weightlifting women in their athletic prime and mid-20's.

When was the last time a woman in her 40's was competitive in weightlifting against world class 20's women weightlifters, and what makes Laurel the exception? Regardless of reassignment, things do not add up.

That may be so, I’m just asking him to back up his claims.

Makes sense, though I am offering him a climbdown as I don't think there is evidence in that regard.

Gecko1978 said:

Deliberately misgendering someone is offensive childish and petty.

Only to people that subscribe to your specific worldview. To those who don't, the concept is as bizarre as the idea of "taking the Lord's name in vain" is to an atheist.

Its up there with calling someone the wrong name deliberately. I am happy to call Luarel, Miss, Ma'm, Mrs, She, her etc could care less. Basically dont be a be nice. Do I believe Laurel is a women....no not at all, but she does and it doesn't harm me to not call that into question. It does harm female athletes when someone 20 years past their prime is able to smash records because we allow her beliefs to deviate from her "real" status and compete in a different class.

[Tom _M]

Iwantafusca said:

Lowering testosterone for one year with estrogen therapy does not reformat male physiology into female physiology

Exactly. A woman is not just a man with a few different hormones. There is an entirely different chromosome, and around 6500 genes are expressed differently between males and females, including 3000 in skeletal muscle relating to composition and function. Differences in athletic performance exist pre-puberty, and this gap increases greatly with puberty. Even negligible levels of testosterone do not wipe this out. I wish Laurel well with her life, but I don’t see any fairness or equality in this situation. Competing in sport is not a basic human right. There is a young native woman from Tonga who has missed out on going to the Olympics, and the associated training and funding opportunities this brings, because a rich, vocal, and entitled 43 year old trans woman has decided this is the path she wants to pursue.

[chrispmartha]

wst said:

nly to people that subscribe to your specific worldview. To those who don't, the concept is as bizarre as the idea of "taking the Lord's name in vain" is to an atheist.

It’s disrespectful.

Would you call someone by their maiden name if you didn’t believe in Marriage.

Or call someone by their original name if they had changed it legally?

Wether you agree or not Trans People exist and they deserve respect as much as anyone else

[ZedLeg]

wst said:

nly to people that subscribe to your specific worldview. To those who don't, the concept is as bizarre as the idea of "taking the Lord's name in vain" is to an atheist.

Not really

The lord is an abstract concept that some people believe in. Laurel Hubbard is an actual person who lives. It’s not a semantic argument.

[chrispmartha]

Tom _M said:

Exactly. A woman is not just a man with a few different hormones. There is an entirely different chromosome, and around 6500 genes are expressed differently between males and females, including 3000 in skeletal muscle relating to composition and function. Differences in athletic performance exist pre-puberty, and this gap increases greatly with puberty. Even negligible levels of testosterone do not wipe this out. I wish Laurel well with her life, but I don’t see any fairness or equality in this situation. Competing in sport is not a basic human right. There is a young native woman from Tonga who has missed out on going to the Olympics, and the associated training and funding opportunities this brings, because a rich, vocal, and entitled 43 year old trans woman has decided this is the path she wants to pursue.

She’s from New Zealand isn’t she?