CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
Nickgnome said:
I am currently here in the UK , I come and go every few months as my business dictates along with Italy and France.
Perhaps you may wish to brush up on your knowledge of one of the most technologically advanced countries of the Eu.
Nice to know all those billions in EU sourced direct structural funding are having some effect. Flushing bogs common outside Tallinn yet? Perhaps you may wish to brush up on your knowledge of one of the most technologically advanced countries of the Eu.
Vanden Saab said:
Nickgnome said:
MEC said:
So you're one of those roving Super Spreaders?
PCR pre and post flight so NO.Double vaccinated
Try again.
Of course not and if you had bothered to follow i had posted the stats.
The vaccine reduces my susceptibility by about 80% and my transmissibility by 50%.
At the time of my flight my PCR says I'm uninfected. It's not perfect but it's that probability thing again.
Andy888 said:
Does anyone know of any route into the US for a family holiday, that doesn’t require quarantine on the outgoing leg?
Quarantine is the least of your problems. You can't fly to the US from the UK full stop (unless you're a green card or US passport holder).The USA said:
Entry of foreign nationals who were physically present within the following list of countries within 14 days prior to their entry or attempted entry into the United States is suspended, per Presidential Proclamations 9984, 9992, 9993, 9996 and the subsequent proclamations issued May 24, 2020, and January 25, 2021:
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe.
The Republic of Ireland.
The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland).
The Federative Republic of Brazil.
The Islamic Republic of Iran.
The People’s Republic of China, not including the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
The Republic of South Africa.
The travel restriction does not apply to:
U.S. citizens.
Legal permanent residents (LPRs).
Most immediate family members of U.S. citizens.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe.
The Republic of Ireland.
The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland).
The Federative Republic of Brazil.
The Islamic Republic of Iran.
The People’s Republic of China, not including the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
The Republic of South Africa.
The travel restriction does not apply to:
U.S. citizens.
Legal permanent residents (LPRs).
Most immediate family members of U.S. citizens.
jameswills said:
Alucidnation said:
The 'brainwashed' will end up being the ones that set you 'free'!
Sorry it was summed up by NewBod why that is the inverse of what will happen. People thought getting tested would help us get out of it, that led us further into it. People thought vaccination would lead us out of it, that has led us further into it. You can’t keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, that’s insane. I am sure we will though with boosters, and another lockdown and more testing for at least another year. Sadly you’ll not understand that the complicity of it all is what is prolonging it. Nickgnome said:
It may seem strange but i think I'd be happy to have a beer with you unlike many here as you are honest and open.
The government have made one almighty cock up of this whole thing, too little too late, reactive not proactive all those lovely buzz words.
Beginning of last year I read something out of the Far East who had taken their previous failed experience and learned form it saying that we, the West would not follow their example. Sure enough until it hit us we did nothing.
If the vaccine reduces both the ability to become infected. Ie now only 20% also transmutability down by 50% then al other things being equal for a particular situation the likelihood of infection goes fro 100% to 10%. That's a good risk reduction in my book. You need to take out all other facts which will on any case only reduce the risk further. Compound probabilities.
I never pee in the wind from the stern. It can change Veer or back but rarely does 180.
We disagree on things Nick, but at least we can talk about things.The government have made one almighty cock up of this whole thing, too little too late, reactive not proactive all those lovely buzz words.
Beginning of last year I read something out of the Far East who had taken their previous failed experience and learned form it saying that we, the West would not follow their example. Sure enough until it hit us we did nothing.
If the vaccine reduces both the ability to become infected. Ie now only 20% also transmutability down by 50% then al other things being equal for a particular situation the likelihood of infection goes fro 100% to 10%. That's a good risk reduction in my book. You need to take out all other facts which will on any case only reduce the risk further. Compound probabilities.
I never pee in the wind from the stern. It can change Veer or back but rarely does 180.
I would be interested in the drink (although I cannot do alcohol due to anticoagulants) and a chat as I enjoy talking to people who have differing opinions to myself.
I explained in detail on the last volume why I won't have the vaccine. But I also feel that there is something amiss with this and even if I didn't have genuine health concerns, the way it has been handled would put me off. Too much behaviour control for my liking.
In more recent times, we have vaccinated the at risk and let people get on with their lives. At the moment, we have vaccinated the at risk and the government have kept restrictions in place on everyone's lives.
Everything points to the vaccines not being as effective as first thought. Do the government know things we don't and are they being truthful with us? Why else would they keep restrictions going because if the vaccines work, it shouldn't matter about the unvaccinated now, should it?
I think it all comes down to some thinking they are more intelligent than they actually are. Some like to play god, think they can eradicate this and drag us all down the path with them. It's not new. History is littered with examples of lions being lead by donkeys.
I firmly believe climate change is part of this too. As acknowledged by the WEF, covid has presented those who wish to rule the world the perfect opportunity to shoehorn in some changes. All dressed up using the best tool known to man to gain acceptance- fear.
I wish those in power would be more honest and stop being such damn hypocrites. Also, I wish they would acknowledge history and learn from it, rather than cast everything aside and plough on regardless.
Edited to add - forgot to mention the fact that there is also a lot of money exchanging hands at the moment. Covid is very good for certain businesses and certain mates of powerful people. Its probably another big reason why this is carrying on. Some are inspired by wealth and power.
Edited by NewBod on Tuesday 22 June 20:29
Nickgnome said:
The vaccine reduces my transmissibility by 50%.
Only on average within your household and across multiple different household occupancy types, based on one study looking at short times post-vaccination.And with secondary attack rates only around 12% on average anyway its not exactly a massive difference unless you happen to be a rare super spreader.
NewBod said:
https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/fears-over-fl...
As I have said all along, lockdowns will be used for much more than covid.
The NHS has really turned into something sinister. We won't be able to do anything soon because we might need to use it. I can't believe this is happening now. There is no way back.
I saw the dark side of the NHS last year when my GP couldn't be bothered seeing me. It's gone full on now. They don't want anyone using it anymore.
Not only that, but the stupid farticle said:
"Andy Fox, deputy director of public health at Lincolnshire County Council said there were concerns that “we didn’t have a flu season, essentially, last year, simply because of self-isolation.”
“The concern that some researchers and scientists have is that this means there’ll be less immunity in the population this winter and as people will be mixing we might see a significant and high rise in flu and we might get a sort of a flu epidemic.”
“So a lockdown could potentially make sense if we are in a situation where we’re very concerned not just about covid but about other respiratory viruses circulating.”
How can people simply sit back and accept this?“The concern that some researchers and scientists have is that this means there’ll be less immunity in the population this winter and as people will be mixing we might see a significant and high rise in flu and we might get a sort of a flu epidemic.”
“So a lockdown could potentially make sense if we are in a situation where we’re very concerned not just about covid but about other respiratory viruses circulating.”
As I have said all along, lockdowns will be used for much more than covid.
The NHS has really turned into something sinister. We won't be able to do anything soon because we might need to use it. I can't believe this is happening now. There is no way back.
I saw the dark side of the NHS last year when my GP couldn't be bothered seeing me. It's gone full on now. They don't want anyone using it anymore.
ker hasn't thought beyond March 2022. So then we'd have 2 winters without a flu season, so we'd better lock down in 2023 as well just in case the NHS can't cope, having had 3 years to prepare.f
king insanity. Mental in the extreme, and really shows the paucity of thinking in these really quite senior roles. I bet they earn more than many company directors on here too!
sim72 said:
Andy888 said:
Does anyone know of any route into the US for a family holiday, that doesn’t require quarantine on the outgoing leg?
Quarantine is the least of your problems. You can't fly to the US from the UK full stop (unless you're a green card or US passport holder).The USA said:
Entry of foreign nationals who were physically present within the following list of countries within 14 days prior to their entry or attempted entry into the United States is suspended, per Presidential Proclamations 9984, 9992, 9993, 9996 and the subsequent proclamations issued May 24, 2020, and January 25, 2021:
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe.
The Republic of Ireland.
The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland).
The Federative Republic of Brazil.
The Islamic Republic of Iran.
The People’s Republic of China, not including the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
The Republic of South Africa.
The travel restriction does?not?apply to:
U.S. citizens.
Legal permanent residents (LPRs).
Most immediate family members of U.S. citizens.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, excluding overseas territories outside of Europe.
The Republic of Ireland.
The 26 countries that comprise the Schengen Area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland).
The Federative Republic of Brazil.
The Islamic Republic of Iran.
The People’s Republic of China, not including the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau.
The Republic of South Africa.
The travel restriction does?not?apply to:
U.S. citizens.
Legal permanent residents (LPRs).
Most immediate family members of U.S. citizens.
2gins said:
Not only that, but the stupid fker hasn't thought beyond March 2022. So then we'd have 2 winters without a flu season, so we'd better lock down in 2023 as well just in case the NHS can't cope, having had 3 years to prepare.
Did you consider the possibility that he has? You get to sit on your arse next year, because you sat on it this year? Get in!ker hasn't thought beyond March 2022. So then we'd have 2 winters without a flu season, so we'd better lock down in 2023 as well just in case the NHS can't cope, having had 3 years to prepare.2gins said:
NewBod said:
https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/fears-over-fl...
As I have said all along, lockdowns will be used for much more than covid.
The NHS has really turned into something sinister. We won't be able to do anything soon because we might need to use it. I can't believe this is happening now. There is no way back.
I saw the dark side of the NHS last year when my GP couldn't be bothered seeing me. It's gone full on now. They don't want anyone using it anymore.
Not only that, but the stupid farticle said:
"Andy Fox, deputy director of public health at Lincolnshire County Council said there were concerns that “we didn’t have a flu season, essentially, last year, simply because of self-isolation.”
“The concern that some researchers and scientists have is that this means there’ll be less immunity in the population this winter and as people will be mixing we might see a significant and high rise in flu and we might get a sort of a flu epidemic.”
“So a lockdown could potentially make sense if we are in a situation where we’re very concerned not just about covid but about other respiratory viruses circulating.”
How can people simply sit back and accept this?“The concern that some researchers and scientists have is that this means there’ll be less immunity in the population this winter and as people will be mixing we might see a significant and high rise in flu and we might get a sort of a flu epidemic.”
“So a lockdown could potentially make sense if we are in a situation where we’re very concerned not just about covid but about other respiratory viruses circulating.”
As I have said all along, lockdowns will be used for much more than covid.
The NHS has really turned into something sinister. We won't be able to do anything soon because we might need to use it. I can't believe this is happening now. There is no way back.
I saw the dark side of the NHS last year when my GP couldn't be bothered seeing me. It's gone full on now. They don't want anyone using it anymore.
ker hasn't thought beyond March 2022. So then we'd have 2 winters without a flu season, so we'd better lock down in 2023 as well just in case the NHS can't cope, having had 3 years to prepare.f
king insanity. Mental in the extreme, and really shows the paucity of thinking in these really quite senior roles. I bet they earn more than many company directors on here too!Anyone seen JVT recently btw?
Nickgnome said:
Vanden Saab said:
Nickgnome said:
MEC said:
So you're one of those roving Super Spreaders?
PCR pre and post flight so NO.Double vaccinated
Try again.
Of course not and if you had bothered to follow i had posted the stats.
The vaccine reduces my susceptibility by about 80% and my transmissibility by 50%.
At the time of my flight my PCR says I'm uninfected. It's not perfect but it's that probability thing again.
Nickgnome said:
Why the stupid 'Oh my'? Look silly in a pub conversation.
Of course not and if you had bothered to follow i had posted the stats.
The vaccine reduces my susceptibility by about 80% and my transmissibility by 50%.
At the time of my flight my PCR says I'm uninfected. It's not perfect but it's that probability thing again.
The vaccine is more effective than that I think? How many 1000 'breakthrough' infections amongst the vaccinated do we have? From 30m+ vaccinated. Of course not and if you had bothered to follow i had posted the stats.
The vaccine reduces my susceptibility by about 80% and my transmissibility by 50%.
At the time of my flight my PCR says I'm uninfected. It's not perfect but it's that probability thing again.
(I appreciate you cant just say your odds of testing positive when vaccinated are 3,000 in 30m (or whatever))
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