Aggression by Russia/uk?

Author
Discussion

Boom78

1,193 posts

47 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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I don’t really get why anyone cares or worries about modern Russia, they’ve got a economy smaller than Spain ran by a handful of self preserving cronies who aren’t going to be rolling divisions of tanks and soldiers over Europe (because they haven’t got them). Their ‘leaders’ only care about themselves, how they’re perceived by Russians and how much they can loot out of their country. They are far far removed from the soviet idealistically Stalinist regime of ww2 and Cold War.

Uncle John

4,270 posts

190 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Boom78 said:
I don’t really get why anyone cares or worries about modern Russia, they’ve got a economy smaller than Spain ran by a handful of self preserving cronies who aren’t going to be rolling divisions of tanks and soldiers over Europe (because they haven’t got them). Their ‘leaders’ only care about themselves, how they’re perceived by Russians and how much they can loot out of their country. They are far far removed from the soviet idealistically Stalinist regime of ww2 and Cold War.
Agreed, a busted flush.

Misanthrope

613 posts

44 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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If they're such a "busted flush", why don't we just leave them the fk alone? Surely their miniscule economy smaller than <insert random small country name here> will soon collapse and they will come crawling back begging for our munificence and ready to hand everything over to western control like in the 90's.

KingNothing

3,159 posts

152 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Was watching a programme about HMS Duncan the other week, they sailed closed to Crimea, and the Russians came out willy waving back then as well, think they flew about 15 different planes in close proximity to the ship, and tailed it with a Russian ship for most of the time it was in the sea.

barryrs

4,376 posts

222 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Misanthrope said:
If they're such a "busted flush", why don't we just leave them the fk alone? Surely their miniscule economy smaller than <insert random small country name here> will soon collapse and they will come crawling back begging for our munificence and ready to hand everything over to western control like in the 90's.
Going to have to try and sneak that into a conversation.


RichFN2

3,312 posts

178 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Misanthrope said:
If they're such a "busted flush", why don't we just leave them the fk alone? Surely their miniscule economy smaller than <insert random small country name here> will soon collapse and they will come crawling back begging for our munificence and ready to hand everything over to western control like in the 90's.
Because when you include their vast oil and gas reserves which will see them through to 2080 then their economy is not so small, add into context their military, employed, education etc and technically they are one of the global super powers. In fairness parts of Russia are pretty bleak and poor since the collapse of the Soviet Union, but Russia is not about to become another Moldova or Armenia.

Add the fact that they are allies with the likes of China, Iran and Syria and you end up with Western leaders who feel they need to have them as an enemy rather than an allie. Personally I would prefer it if we had a better relationship with Russia.

Smoggy XJR

550 posts

69 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Boom78 said:
I don’t really get why anyone cares or worries about modern Russia, they’ve got a economy smaller than Spain ran by a handful of self preserving cronies who aren’t going to be rolling divisions of tanks and soldiers over Europe (because they haven’t got them). Their ‘leaders’ only care about themselves, how they’re perceived by Russians and how much they can loot out of their country. They are far far removed from the soviet idealistically Stalinist regime of ww2 and Cold War.
I could be wrong, but don't they control much of the gas that goes to Europe?

Misanthrope

613 posts

44 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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RichFN2 said:
Misanthrope said:
If they're such a "busted flush", why don't we just leave them the fk alone? Surely their miniscule economy smaller than <insert random small country name here> will soon collapse and they will come crawling back begging for our munificence and ready to hand everything over to western control like in the 90's.
Because when you include their vast oil and gas reserves which will see them through to 2080 then their economy is not so small, add into context their military, employed, education etc and technically they are one of the global super powers. In fairness parts of Russia are pretty bleak and poor since the collapse of the Soviet Union, but Russia is not about to become another Moldova or Armenia.

Add the fact that they are allies with the likes of China, Iran and Syria and you end up with Western leaders who feel they need to have them as an enemy rather than an allie. Personally I would prefer it if we had a better relationship with Russia.
And we have a winner. The only point I would remark on is this:

RichFN2 said:
...but Russia is not about to become another Moldova or Armenia.
This is true now, but in the 90's it came quite close to splitting into several pieces which could have ended up in that category. Until Putin came along and stopped the descent into oblivion. That, above all else, is why the west hate him.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Misanthrope said:
This is true now, but in the 90's it came quite close to splitting into several pieces which could have ended up in that category. Until Putin came along and stopped the descent into oblivion. That, above all else, is why the west hate him.
So not the death squads that kill dissident Russians living in the UK and by mistake kill British citizens with polonium then?

Russia is a gangster state, i feel sorry for the people of Russia who are being robbed blind by the scum in charge there.

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Complete bilge. No one wanted Russia to disintegrate. Apart from the fact that no one would wish that on the Russian people, the less stable it is the more dangerous it is; spasms of nationalistic lunacy, losing track of nukes, etc. What the West wants is a stable, plural Russia. The only people who benefit from its current state and the conflict with the West are its current dictatorial leadership, and of course the people suffering the most as a result of that leadership are the Russian people themselves.

Misanthrope

613 posts

44 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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ATG said:
Complete bilge. No one wanted Russia to disintegrate. Apart from the fact that no one would wish that on the Russian people...
I really don't understand how you can spout this horsest with a straight face. Look at all the countries the west has destroyed over the last 30 years - Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria to name some of them. Surely "nobody could wish that on those people"? Nevertheless it happened. Oh, hold on, 500,000 dead Iraqi children was "a price worth paying" remember? Even if they didn't actively wish harm on those people, they just don't give a st. They're just pawns, and if they don't want to be our slaves then who cares if they get killed or reduced to destitution?

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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Misanthrope said:
ATG said:
Complete bilge. No one wanted Russia to disintegrate. Apart from the fact that no one would wish that on the Russian people...
I really don't understand how you can spout this horsest with a straight face. Look at all the countries the west has destroyed over the last 30 years - Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria to name some of them. Surely "nobody could wish that on those people"? Nevertheless it happened. Oh, hold on, 500,000 dead Iraqi children was "a price worth paying" remember? Even if they didn't actively wish harm on those people, they just don't give a st. They're just pawns, and if they don't want to be our slaves then who cares if they get killed or reduced to destitution?
The fact that you think the West destroyed those countries shows you don't understand what happened in any of them nor why it happened.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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ATG said:
If Russia stuck all of the SU-24s ever built in the air simultaneously, a Type-45 would be able to track all of them.
I see your sophisticated anti-air defence and I raise you a a Russian submarine trailing the destroyer. Tough to use your radar when you have a torpedo up the jacksie.

633Squadron

1,727 posts

36 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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Ayahuasca said:
ATG said:
If Russia stuck all of the SU-24s ever built in the air simultaneously, a Type-45 would be able to track all of them.
I see your sophisticated anti-air defence and I raise you a a Russian submarine trailing the destroyer. Tough to use your radar when you have a torpedo up the jacksie.
Surely they must have considered this when designing it.

CardinalBlue

833 posts

76 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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The Lib Dems have released a statement saying the location of all our warships should be live-streamed…


633Squadron

1,727 posts

36 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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CardinalBlue said:
The Lib Dems have released a statement saying the location of all our warships should be live-streamed…

A massive deterrent for baddies!

anxious_ant

2,626 posts

78 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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633Squadron said:
CardinalBlue said:
The Lib Dems have released a statement saying the location of all our warships should be live-streamed…

A massive deterrent for baddies!
We need to livestream politicians, Big Brother style, to ensure they always act in public interest jester

Boom78

1,193 posts

47 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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RichFN2 said:
Because when you include their vast oil and gas reserves which will see them through to 2080 then their economy is not so small, add into context their military, employed, education etc and technically they are one of the global super powers. In fairness parts of Russia are pretty bleak and poor since the collapse of the Soviet Union, but Russia is not about to become another Moldova or Armenia.

Add the fact that they are allies with the likes of China, Iran and Syria and you end up with Western leaders who feel they need to have them as an enemy rather than an allie. Personally I would prefer it if we had a better relationship with Russia.
They may be rich in reserves but how can they be a global super power with such a small economy, tiny GDP, widespread poverty, depleted forces and a population rinsed by a few gangsters at the helm? If the country was run properly it could be successful and it’s people much better off, we all want to see this version of a modern Russia. This is the Russia we want to be closer to, not the current corrupt gangster bully boy state. Never pander to a bully.

China and Russia are also not natural allies, they’re actually very weary of each other and have very little in common.


Edited by Boom78 on Thursday 24th June 07:57

fiatpower

3,005 posts

170 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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I see there just happened to be a BBC correspondent and a Daily Mail journalist onboard. Very convenient when the move they made was very likely to antagonize the Russians.

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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Bill said:
The majority speak Russian due to Soviet era ethnic cleansing.
That is inaccurate

Crimea was taken in the late 18th century and developed as Russia's main black sea base. The people settling in it were predominantly drawn from Russia rather than the Ukraine. Hence why it was around 50% Russian BEFORE the deportation of the Crimean Tartars.

The Crimea is either Russian, Tartar, or the peoples the Tartars displaced (if you want to go ever further back in history). What it has never been is Ukrainian. Khrushchev handed it over to the Ukraine in 1954 without any popular vote on the issue and many believe that this contravened USSR law, but went ahead anyway.