Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 11

[hiccy18]

Yesterday Mike "Honest guv" Russell claims they didn't know the membership figures had dropped as they only release the figures once a year. Today we find out he's been sending letters to former members begging them to come back:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1748416/st...

Another barefaced SNP lie then.

[SpeckledJim]

What these guys need is more power.

[stevensdrs]

SpeckledJim said:

What these guys need is more power.

Preferably into a chair they are strapped in.

[Ridgemont]

eccles said:

Roderick Spode said:

munroman said:

anonymoususer said:

I see that Loose Women on ITV (yes I know) have given Nicola Sturgeon a platform to appear on.

Should be renamed to 'Loosely described as a Woman'

Should be renamed to "Boufin Quines" or perhaps "Screaming Harridans you wouldn't touch with your worst enemy's" with Sturgeon on it.

I'm surprised she went on a show that has 'women' in the title!

article said:

For now, she seems wistful. Sturgeon regretted how bitter politics has become – nothing to do with the SNP! –and how stressful is the job of running a country into the ground. She had watched Jacinda Ardern step down and thought “I wish that was me,” which proves she is human after all. Who among us didn’t watch Jacinda resign and think, “I wish that was Nicola Sturgeon”?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/20/ni...

[alangla]

An extra ferry at last! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65013731

It’s the Alfred rather than the Pentalina though

[Ridgemont]

To be fair as per the above article writer her comments re miscarriage and dealing with that trauma remind us that politicians are human. We miss that while they may strut their stuff and polarise like mad, but they are also have to go home and deal with the rest of the human condition.

The last comment is absolutely apposite:

article said:

I’m afraid that in the subconscious of many English Tories, the Scottish nation has become synonymous with the SNP – an error that plays right into their opponents’ hands.

[hiccy18]

£9m for 9 months charter of a £14m ferry, sound business practice from someone there.

[sherman]

alangla said:

An extra ferry at last! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65013731

It’s the Alfred rather than the Pentalina though

Alfred is newer than the Pentalina.
Only one crash to its name though.
It hit a reasonably large island in Orkney last year.

[shtu]

Ridgemont said:

To be fair as per the above article writer her comments re miscarriage and dealing with that trauma remind us that politicians are human. We miss that while they may strut their stuff and polarise like mad, but they are also have to go home and deal with the rest of the human condition.

And the reverse should be true - regardless of their personal lives, they are in a position of trust, and there are Party and Ministerial standards to be upheld.

Brinigng up the miscarriage in a soft TV interview, now of all times, strikes me as a rather cynical sympathy move on her part.

edit - typos. ( and I assumed the miscarriage was brought up during loose wimmin.

Edited by shtu on Monday 20th March 21:59

Edited by shtu on Monday 20th March 22:03

[irc]

hiccy18 said:

Yesterday Mike "Honest guv" Russell claims they didn't know the membership figures had dropped as they only release the figures once a year. Today we find out he's been sending letters to former members begging them to come back:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1748416/st...

Another barefaced SNP lie then.

Why not? 45% of the population believe anything they are told.

Telling the truth is easy. Once you start lying you need to have an incredible memory to remember which lies you have told in the past and whether there is anything on paper or online anywhere that will disprove your current lie. Which is why Nippy's stock answer is not being able to remember. Giving clear answers means having them quoted back at you when they are later proven to be wrong.

I can't understand it. There is no shame in losing members. A proper party would look at itself and survey leaving members to find why it was losing support. The SNP have got so used to getting re-elected no matter what they don't care about the proles.

Edited by irc on Monday 20th March 22:12

[hidetheelephants]

Ridgemont said:

To be fair as per the above article writer her comments re miscarriage and dealing with that trauma remind us that politicians are human. We miss that while they may strut their stuff and polarise like mad, but they are also have to go home and deal with the rest of the human condition.

The last comment is absolutely apposite:

article said:

I’m afraid that in the subconscious of many English Tories, the Scottish nation has become synonymous with the SNP – an error that plays right into their opponents’ hands.

Marvel Superhero levels of projection going on there.

hiccy18 said:

£9m for 9 months charter of a £14m ferry, sound business practice from someone there.

Mr Banks will be laughing all the way to the bank, so to speak. This is desperate stuff. The fact they're chartering a vessel that was delivered more or less to schedule and budget(30 months, £14m) to do the job of vessels that haven't been delivered and may never be, were originally supposed to be £50m each but are over £150m and rising, highlights so many things that are wrong with how govt runs ferries in Scotland.

[ninepoint2]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola...

Head still firmly in the sand, same obfuscation as usual, she really is so delusional, perfect example of the
Dunning–Kruger Effect.

[technodup]

I haven't watched it for obvious reasons but apparently she claimed the baby box as one of her best achievements in office.

Giving away a box with £150 of stuff in it to new parents, lots of them to people who don't actually need it is your crowning glory? In over eight years of office? That's the paucity of your accomplishments laid bare right there. I'd be fking embarrassed by that, and staying well off the airwaves.

Why mention that when she could have said improving NHS waiting times, attracting more business investment, reducing drug deaths, improving schools, stopping Brexit or gaining independence? Oh. Aye.

[Evercross]

technodup said:

I haven't watched it for obvious reasons but apparently she claimed the baby box as one of her best achievements in office.

Giving away a box with £150 of stuff in it to new parents, lots of them to people who don't actually need it is your crowning glory? In over eight years of office? That's the paucity of your accomplishments laid bare right there. I'd be fking embarrassed by that, and staying well off the airwaves.

Ah yes - the "Baby Box". Literally a cardboard facade, a superficial imitation of something else, displaying the public face of a scheme but bereft of the substance behind it.

Just like the painted-on windows on the ferries (representing the lies and deceit of Sturgeon and her husband) - a perfect metaphor for our outgoing failure of a First Minister.

[biggles330d]

hiccy18 said:

£9m for 9 months charter of a £14m ferry, sound business practice from someone there.

But doesn't that just tell you of how much of a red herring the vessel cost argument is? Most of the costs of running the ferries will be crew, fuel, berthing dues and other operating costs. The bit of the lease / charter related to the vessel cost itself is probably, what, 10% of that £9m?
But you'd hope Pentland Ferries are making a decent return from it. Not sure why a private company who are forever vilified by those flag wavers who say a nationalised network operator is the only answer and often picked upon by the RMT amongst others should be cutting Calmac any slack when it's their investment and solution that is having to be called in to make up for the many many failings of the state solution!

[emicen]

biggles330d said:

hiccy18 said:

£9m for 9 months charter of a £14m ferry, sound business practice from someone there.

But doesn't that just tell you of how much of a red herring the vessel cost argument is? Most of the costs of running the ferries will be crew, fuel, berthing dues and other operating costs. The bit of the lease / charter related to the vessel cost itself is probably, what, 10% of that £9m?
But you'd hope Pentland Ferries are making a decent return from it. Not sure why a private company who are forever vilified by those flag wavers who say a nationalised network operator is the only answer and often picked upon by the RMT amongst others should be cutting Calmac any slack when it's their investment and solution that is having to be called in to make up for the many many failings of the state solution!

Doesn’t suggest it is or isn’t a red herring without knowing further detail tbh.

From what I have read, the situation sounds more like a bareboat charter than contracting Pentland to deliver the service.

In the latter case, you would be correct. The £9m needs to cover crew, fuel and other operating costs.

However the former, which is what it sounds like with all the fussing from the RMT et al about training etc, would mean CalMac are still paying their own crew, paying for fuel and now also paying £9m to rent the vessel on top.

[hiccy18]

biggles330d said:

hiccy18 said:

£9m for 9 months charter of a £14m ferry, sound business practice from someone there.

But doesn't that just tell you of how much of a red herring the vessel cost argument is? Most of the costs of running the ferries will be crew, fuel, berthing dues and other operating costs. The bit of the lease / charter related to the vessel cost itself is probably, what, 10% of that £9m?
But you'd hope Pentland Ferries are making a decent return from it. Not sure why a private company who are forever vilified by those flag wavers who say a nationalised network operator is the only answer and often picked upon by the RMT amongst others should be cutting Calmac any slack when it's their investment and solution that is having to be called in to make up for the many many failings of the state solution!

I'm not going to pretend to have any insight into the running costs of ferry operations (although I'd be surprised if the crew costs were more than 10%), but the correlation of the two figures expose the shocking state of vessel procurement in Scotland. Fag packet £900k profit for 9 months work towards the cost of a £14m vessel that will last for, what, 25 years? Seems a decent ROI.

The wording in the Herald article suggests Pentland Ferries are operating the services on behalf of Calmac:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23399...

I stand ready to be corrected though!

Edited by hiccy18 on Tuesday 21st March 08:11

[irc]

They are hardly negotiating from a position of strength. The SNP are well know for paying top dollar and higher.

However. As the lease includes Pentlands staffing it. £9M probably not a rip off.

"

The MV Alfred will be based in Campbeltown until ready to go into service, and will be operated, staffed and maintained by the ship’s owners, Pentland Ferries."

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highland...

Edited by irc on Tuesday 21st March 08:22

[biggles330d]

I read the Herald article on the Alfred. I have to say I really wonder about some of the islander attitudes and the priorities of some of our politicians. Now I'm no SNP fan, but fair play to the Transport Minister, she's ok'd the charter of the Alfred to try and fix the running sore that is the west coast ferries debacle.
In the report, some islanders seem to be grateful through gritted teeth, talking about unsuitable vessels and cost etc. And the Labour MSP Katy Clark is muttering about "panic'd decisions" and chartering vessels from operators with poor reputation for health and safety. FFS, it's not as if CalMac hasn't banged a few ferries about over the years running into piers and stuff. Judging by the amount of maintenance being needed today, I'd suggest you have to question how robust their repair and maintenance strategies have been over the years as well to have let the vessel get into such a poor condition.

No doubt the Labour MSP is well aware that if Alfred proves to be perfectly adequate for operating the route it shatters the nonsense that RMT and all the vested interests have had over years trying to protect the golden goose that keeps laying. Whether it works to give the islanders the connectivity they are asking for is probably well down her priority list.

There's a solution, it'll improve resiliency. The Alfred and Pentland Ferries have been operating perfectly well in waters far more severe than some ambling run to Arran or wherever its deployed and despite the scaremongering the Pentland Firth isn't littered with bodies and broken vessels from a shoddy and unsafe operation. Can't they just be a tiny bit grateful for once? Can't Labour or RMT accept that CalMac and State owned operation is a long long way from world class? Sometimes it sounds like some folk on the West Coast and definitely some of the political leadership would prefer to continue to wallow in the mire and moan a lot rather than actually find a workable solution.

[ZedLeg]

biggles330d said:

Sometimes it sounds like some folk on the West Coast and definitely some of the political leadership would prefer to continue to wallow in the mire and moan a lot rather than actually find a workable solution.

I would add a fair few folk on here to that list tbh.