CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 15)

[frisbee]

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Everywhere you go
Is going to be cancelled

[isaldiri]

EddieSteadyGo said:

From Lilico's numbers, he is saying ~65% currently have been infected, so 2 weeks ago would have been ~55%. And based on that rate of infection next week would be around ~70%. And which point cases in kids should fall very quickly.

If it didn't fall quickly at 60% why would it do so suddenly at 70%?

My whole point above was that 5% of all of that age population infected means 12+% of those who would be susceptible if ~60% were previously infected. And that is also a rate that has doubled if not trebled in the last 6 weeks. It should not have been the case at 50+% prior infection levels.

[Boringvolvodriver]

hyphen said:

Mail:

[IMG]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/10/19/09/49355415-10106743-image-a-4_1634631220699.jpg[/thumb]

World beating!

Test more find more positives - which are different to cases of course

[ant1973]

I see we are at 223 deaths today... not sure if it is a reporting backlog or something. But the drums are beating increasingly louder for more restrictions.

[Ntv]

Brave Fart said:

scottyp123 said:

Did anyone else know its the renewal vote on the corona restrictions today?

I even asked on the actual legislation thread on SPL the other day when the vote was and didn't get an answer. Absolutely nothing in the news about it and I only found out through a random Youtube video.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...

Little plug for Talk Radio: this was discussed on the Mike Graham show this morning, when he featured the brilliant Laura Dodsworth. Apparently the government is not allowing any debate or questions, it's a straight vote on renewal (or not). However, schedules 16, 21 and 22 are being removed - these are the ones dealing with school closures, detention of infected persons, and banning gatherings.

Laura thought it very likely that renewal will be approved, which will take us to April 2022 I think, when the whole Act is due to expire (it originally had a two year life).

It is a case in point of "think end of the wedge" argument.

Whether to extend or not should be judged on its own merits and necessity now, rather than based on what was "needed" a year or more ago.

Much as locking up kids, kicking them out of school, making it illegal for them to leave the house is child abuse, irrespective on any supposed benefit.

[Harrison Bergeron]

It's that time again. ugh
to be fair figures 6 and 7 are just as good.

ONS said:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey Technical Article: Impact of vaccination on testing positive in the UK: October 2021
Figure 5

Figure 8: Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines both provided a similar level of protection to previous natural infection against symptomatic infection during the Delta-dominant period
Modelled risk ratios of testing positive for COVID-19 by reported symptoms, COVID-19 vaccine exposure and vaccine type, when the Delta variant was dominant, UK, 17 May to 14 August 2021

Do our PH doctors want to say anything or are they going to clam up like usual?

[bodhi]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/19/southwest-vaccine-...

Southwest Airlines in the US look to have softened their position on vaccine mandates ever so slightly. Why they're doing this after it was only bad weather that caused all those flights to get cancelled I don't know, but there we are.

[Bikesalot]

Donbot said:

g4ry13 said:

Bikesalot said:

Attended a charity dinner on Wednesday, circa 400 people. Well run and good fun actually.

LFT morning of event, fine. There was nowhere to 'check in' (NHS barcode) to the event but they have all our details from booking the tickets.

Surprise surprise one of the attendees has tested positive on Friday evening after a PCR test.

That's approx 400 people being told to go and get a PCR test now jabbed or not.

I don't have the app, so I've not been pinged but lots have, waiting on a phonecall now I guess.

Since the NHS haven't contacted me personally, do I need to isolate whilst I wait for my test...another unvaxxed, symptomless individual being locked up if so.

Don't answer the phone and go about your life as normal.

If you're concerned you may have it, take an LFT test at home.

Unless you can blag a paid holiday of course.

Are the government still paying people to isolate?

So just to follow up on this. I still have no symptoms, my PCR test came back inconclusive so I went to a site to get another one done today.

The double vaxxed chap I attended the event with has flu like symptoms and tested positive.

Be interesting to see how this one pans out.

[CarCrazyDad]

Bikesalot said:

Donbot said:

g4ry13 said:

Bikesalot said:

Attended a charity dinner on Wednesday, circa 400 people. Well run and good fun actually.

LFT morning of event, fine. There was nowhere to 'check in' (NHS barcode) to the event but they have all our details from booking the tickets.

Surprise surprise one of the attendees has tested positive on Friday evening after a PCR test.

That's approx 400 people being told to go and get a PCR test now jabbed or not.

I don't have the app, so I've not been pinged but lots have, waiting on a phonecall now I guess.

Since the NHS haven't contacted me personally, do I need to isolate whilst I wait for my test...another unvaxxed, symptomless individual being locked up if so.

Don't answer the phone and go about your life as normal.

If you're concerned you may have it, take an LFT test at home.

Unless you can blag a paid holiday of course.

Are the government still paying people to isolate?

So just to follow up on this. I still have no symptoms, my PCR test came back inconclusive so I went to a site to get another one done today.

The double vaxxed chap I attended the event with has flu like symptoms and tested positive.

Be interesting to see how this one pans out.

You have no symptoms. So why test?

What is in it for you?

[scottyp123]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This was posted on another thread so I cant take any credit but this hilarious picture sums up the whole debacle.

[Cold]

Ntv said:

Brave Fart said:

scottyp123 said:

Did anyone else know its the renewal vote on the corona restrictions today?

I even asked on the actual legislation thread on SPL the other day when the vote was and didn't get an answer. Absolutely nothing in the news about it and I only found out through a random Youtube video.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...

Little plug for Talk Radio: this was discussed on the Mike Graham show this morning, when he featured the brilliant Laura Dodsworth. Apparently the government is not allowing any debate or questions, it's a straight vote on renewal (or not). However, schedules 16, 21 and 22 are being removed - these are the ones dealing with school closures, detention of infected persons, and banning gatherings.

Laura thought it very likely that renewal will be approved, which will take us to April 2022 I think, when the whole Act is due to expire (it originally had a two year life).

It is a case in point of "think end of the wedge" argument.

Whether to extend or not should be judged on its own merits and necessity now, rather than based on what was "needed" a year or more ago.

Much as locking up kids, kicking them out of school, making it illegal for them to leave the house is child abuse, irrespective on any supposed benefit.

You'll be pleased to know that the Act was extended for a further 6 months this afternoon.

Apparently "it’s not the mood of the House to vote on the issue" according to the Deputy Speaker.

[Brave Fart]

monkfish1 said:

Short summary: Everything you do can be stopped at the whim of a minister. And likely will be.

Yes, pretty much. In the words of Lord Sumption: "on well established legal principles, the powers under the Public Health Act were not
intended to authorise measures as drastic as those which have been imposed".

This government has knowingly abused the very general provisions of the Public Health Act to impose some very specific and draconian measures on the English public. It's telling that the only critcism of that has come from Tory MP's, notably Steve Baker.

We have witnessed rule by ministerial decree. If it happened in some other countries, we'd be pointing at them, saying how inferior they were to us, with our democratic ways............

[Ntv]

Cold said:

Ntv said:

Brave Fart said:

scottyp123 said:

Did anyone else know its the renewal vote on the corona restrictions today?

I even asked on the actual legislation thread on SPL the other day when the vote was and didn't get an answer. Absolutely nothing in the news about it and I only found out through a random Youtube video.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...

Little plug for Talk Radio: this was discussed on the Mike Graham show this morning, when he featured the brilliant Laura Dodsworth. Apparently the government is not allowing any debate or questions, it's a straight vote on renewal (or not). However, schedules 16, 21 and 22 are being removed - these are the ones dealing with school closures, detention of infected persons, and banning gatherings.

Laura thought it very likely that renewal will be approved, which will take us to April 2022 I think, when the whole Act is due to expire (it originally had a two year life).

It is a case in point of "think end of the wedge" argument.

Whether to extend or not should be judged on its own merits and necessity now, rather than based on what was "needed" a year or more ago.

Much as locking up kids, kicking them out of school, making it illegal for them to leave the house is child abuse, irrespective on any supposed benefit.

You'll be pleased to know that the Act was extended for a further 6 months this afternoon.

Apparently "it’s not the mood of the House to vote on the issue" according to the Deputy Speaker.

COVID response did great damage to our democracy that will only be rectified by politicians motivated by justice, who have nuts (metaphorically), who believe in liberty, and don't run scared from Twitter

Know any?

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo]

Harrison Bergeron said:

It's that time again. ugh
to be fair figures 6 and 7 are just as good.

ONS said:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey Technical Article: Impact of vaccination on testing positive in the UK: October 2021
Figure 5

Figure 8: Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines both provided a similar level of protection to previous natural infection against symptomatic infection during the Delta-dominant period
Modelled risk ratios of testing positive for COVID-19 by reported symptoms, COVID-19 vaccine exposure and vaccine type, when the Delta variant was dominant, UK, 17 May to 14 August 2021

Do our PH doctors want to say anything or are they going to clam up like usual?

I can only speak from what my wife’s seeing. That is the majority of covid positive cases are double injected. The respiratory ward is split half covid / half non-covid, her colleague who works there told her only one of the twenty covid patients is non-vaccinated.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Brave Fart said:

Yes, pretty much. In the words of Lord Sumption: "on well established legal principles, the powers under the Public Health Act were not
intended to authorise measures as drastic as those which have been imposed".

This government has knowingly abused the very general provisions of the Public Health Act to impose some very specific and draconian measures on the English public. It's telling that the only critcism of that has come from Tory MP's, notably Steve Baker.

We have witnessed rule by ministerial decree. If it happened in some other countries, we'd be pointing at them, saying how inferior they were to us, with our democratic ways............

You do surely have to wonder why they have carried on in this manner when it should be obvious that some of the measures do not make sense in a health context if a virus that has such a low fatality rate.

The fact that it is happening in many countries is a coincidence?

I am losing what little faith I had in our MPs and the rest of the population.

[Ntv]

ant1973 said:

It's good that Ferguson is honest about the facemask nonsense:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10106743/...

'Nobody likes having their freedoms curtailed by measures but it's prudent to be cautious in everyday interactions — certainly wear(ing) masks helps, it reminds people that we're not completely out of the woods yet.'

Perhaps to extend the analogy, he should have been fitted with a chastity belt last May as a way of "constraining" his "freedom".....

Guy's a daft .

I don't regard us as being "in the woods". It's a small % of old unwell people dying. But FWIW it's not going anywhere, so all this "out of the woods" ste is just that.

How about trying to manipulate public opinion with the context being "this will never end"

[Boringvolvodriver]

Ntv said:

COVID response did great damage to our democracy that will only be rectified by politicians motivated by justice, who have nuts (metaphorically), who believe in liberty, and don't run scared from Twitter

Know any?

Or (tin foil alert) there may be something else going on?

I don’t know anymore but something doesn’t feel right to me and hasn’t done for a while.

[isaldiri]

djc206 said:

isaldiri said:

Given covid very obviously affects older people more (quick jab up more young people or ban them), why wouldn't you compare age adjusted total mortality rates to figure out how each state might have done wrt to actual success in handling the pandemic?

Because a state that is basically a nursing home shouldn’t react in the same as one with a younger demographic for the very reason you gave. In the same way that Mississippi as the poorest and one of the unhealthiest states shouldn’t have been so blasé because it doesn’t have the resources to cope. I love the way Americans stand up for personal freedoms, I really do but I wish they’d sometimes show a little more regard for their fellow Americans. For a religious nation they can be quite selfish.

Well, your post was questioning why one should use age adjusted mortality rates to compare how different states had done not about whether states with older people should necessarily have reacted differently die to age demographics.

If Florida as a state as you say that's basically a nursing home didn't have much worse age adjusted mortality rates compared to others despite relatively far less restrictions, perhaps they did show more regard for those less affected by the virus and more affected by restrictions as compared to being 'selfish' as you posted.

[Knoxville2410]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Or (tin foil alert) there may be something else going on?

I don’t know anymore but something doesn’t feel right to me and hasn’t done for a while.

May just be my cynicism but it certainly feels like everything that is said or done by gov, media, people in power etc is geared toward keeping us in this mess, rather than finding a way out of it.

There is never any positivity about how we can get on with our lives or what's being done to ensure we don't have restrictions again. It feels like the decision has already been made about future restrictions and they are just finding the best way to tell the public.

Again, could just be my cynicism from reading st article after st article, but certainly feels this way.

[sunnygym]

Why has one side got masks on and the other not….