Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

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Discussion

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
dickymint said:
turbobloke said:
Is there any increased optimism compared to this, frm The Guardian last month:

Pessimistic Article said:
COP26 climate talks will not fulfil aims of Paris agreement, key players warn. Vital United Nations climate talks, billed as one of the last chances to stave off climate breakdown, will not produce the breakthrough needed to fulfil the aspiration of the Paris agreement, key players in the talks have conceded.
Climate Breakdown laugh

Join the AA ffs.
No point they can't jump start EV's biglaugh
They'll need more bright sparks.

Nations to accelerate oil, coal and gas production over the next decade, UN discovers
The Times, 20 October 2021
(no quotation marks)

Fossil fuel production set to soar over the next decade. Shocking. That Hz.

kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
What offer?
A straightforward bet - the av annual temp of the 2020s will be warmer than the 2010s av

Same or less is a win for you

Metric, your favourite - the lowest in the pack UAH satellite dataset.

Completion date - 8 years in January.

durbster

10,804 posts

230 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Awesome guff.

Nobody on here made predictions of global cooling, some have posted the predictions of cooling from Abdusamatov, Archibald and Landscheidt, when I've done so I've usually said that we must keep looking at the data to see what's happening, up to the point of sufficient repetition. Faith, true belief; they belong with agw.
You in 2007:



From this thread

Unfortunately for you, it's really easy to find this stuff. We can simply find a scientist who's climate predictions were wrong, search their name on Pistonheads and invariably there's turboboke, shouting about how right they are. hehe

Because you have been peddling this material so hard, and for so long, it's everywhere. And you can't hide the source - the internet never forgets.

Note: I snipped the first part of the post so the screenshot wasn't massive

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
Awesome guff.

Nobody on here made predictions of global cooling, some have posted the predictions of cooling from Abdusamatov, Archibald and Landscheidt, when I've done so I've usually said that we must keep looking at the data to see what's happening, up to the point of sufficient repetition. Faith, true belief; they belong with agw.
You in 2007:

Quite so, I couldn't have put it better myself. What's more, your n'th "gotcha" post is a fail.

In the failed gotcha post where you quoted me, I clearly state that we must "wait for the 'experiment' to roll out in real time" i.e. wait for the data to arrive, which is clearly not in keeping with your, or El s's claim to a faith on cooling. "Once we see"...so, we wait for the 'experiment' to proceed through 2030 to 2050.

If you look into threads you'll see the chain linking to predictions from either Landscheidt or Abdusamatov or Archibald.

In many but not all of the posts just like the one you mined, I mention keeping a watch on the data to see what's happening, including the 2017 example I gave earlier today.

Why didn't you highlight the 'wait for the data' bit in your snip?

The Don of Croy

6,107 posts

167 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
Listening to R4 just now, a talking head reckoned these COP shops do not reach agreement, more that they set the agenda for future negotiations...which sort of makes you wonder why they make such a song and dance over it.

Still, I fully expect Bojo to claim a massive new deal out of it, even if it is simply a continuation of the UK’s decline as a manufacturing power.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
The Don of Croy said:
Listening to R4 just now, a talking head reckoned these COP shops do not reach agreement, more that they set the agenda for future negotiations...which sort of makes you wonder why they make such a song and dance over it.

Still, I fully expect Bojo to claim a massive new deal out of it, even if it is simply a continuation of the UK’s decline as a manufacturing power.


Jets ahoy for the carbonfest.

kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
It’s hilarious looking back at old PHs climate threads to see how wrong all our PH ‘experts’ have been.
Straw is doing well atm.

The only hilarity arising from experts in error on PH relate to pro-AGW pro-IPCC types with hilarious predictions on non-vanishing arctic summer ice, absence of winter snow, tropical troposphere temperature errors, New York not under water, etc.

The predictionsof solar-eruptivity related cooling from Landscheidt, Abdusamatov and Archibald have approx 10 to 30 years to run (2030 - 2050); your hilarious, over-egged, baselessly smug, serially biased, premature adjudication is showing (again).
Well there's premature adjudication and there's hanging on for grim death to the bitter end isn't there tb thumbup

No premature adjudication whatsoever for Archibald's 2006 prediction of a little ice age by 2020 however - dead as dodo

Landscheidt's little ice age predictions running very late indeed and temps have gone the wrong way - a stunning temperature plunge now required (which isn't what was predicted)

Abdumasatov's sharp temperature decline 2014 - 2050 has more time but off to a bad start with temps going the wrong way again (and no sign of the solar TSI drop required to make it happen).


kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Quite so, I couldn't have put it better myself. What's more, your n'th "gotcha" post is a fail.

In the failed gotcha post where you quoted me, I clearly state that we must "wait for the 'experiment' to roll out in real time" i.e. wait for the data to arrive, which is clearly not in keeping with your, or El s's claim to a faith on cooling. "Once we see"...so, we wait for the 'experiment' to proceed through 2030 to 2050.

If you look into threads you'll see the chain linking to predictions from either Landscheidt or Abdusamatov or Archibald.

In many but not all of the posts just like the one you mined, I mention keeping a watch on the data to see what's happening, including the 2017 example I gave earlier today.

Why didn't you highlight the 'wait for the data' bit in your snip?
Gawd knows what "keeping a watch on the data to see what's happening" is supposed to mean. The idea of cycle-based predictions is that cycles are err predictable.

Perhaps you can explain what you mean by that.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
Quite so, I couldn't have put it better myself. What's more, your n'th "gotcha" post is a fail.

In the failed gotcha post where you quoted me, I clearly state that we must "wait for the 'experiment' to roll out in real time" i.e. wait for the data to arrive, which is clearly not in keeping with your, or El s's claim to a faith on cooling. "Once we see"...so, we wait for the 'experiment' to proceed through 2030 to 2050.

If you look into threads you'll see the chain linking to predictions from either Landscheidt or Abdusamatov or Archibald.

In many but not all of the posts just like the one you mined, I mention keeping a watch on the data to see what's happening, including the 2017 example I gave earlier today.

Why didn't you highlight the 'wait for the data' bit in your snip?
Gawd knows what "keeping a watch on the data to see what's happening" is supposed to mean.
Comprehension problems at such a basic level? For you and anyone else in this unfortunate situation, it means that any and all predictions are in need of testing (!) which can only happen in real time as data arrives to allow comparison with the prediction.

For those interested, Landscheidt (1of 3, as an example) analysed solar eruptivity patterns and made the prediction at the turn of the century when solar activity was still high, that it would decline and reach a minimum around 2030 and that this would be linked to global cooling. This is what's happened so far.



Given the 2030 date from Landscheidt, and the time lag from forcing to climate, claims that this and other 2050 predictions of cooling are in error, are in error. We don't know yet. We do, however, know that arctic ocean summer ice hasn't disappeared, New York hasn't become submerged, snow isn't a thing of the past in UK nor is it a rare event, etc as the data is in on the series of dates agw supporters in one form or another, from scientists to Al Gore, offered for these non-happenings - several dates, in each case, one after the other as the predictions failed.

PS the latest summer arctic ice punt is 2035.

kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
For those interested here's what Landscheidt actually said in his 2003 "New Little Ice Age Instead Of Global Warming?" paper:

"Analysis of the sun's varying activity in the last two millennia indicates that contrary to the IPCC's speculation about man-made global warming as high as 5.8° C within the next hundred years, a long period of cool climate with its coldest phase around 2030 is to be expected"

and

"We need not wait until 2030 to see whether the forecast of the next deep Gleissberg minimum is correct. A declining trend in solar activity and global temperature should become manifest long before the deepest point in the development"

bringing up TB's usual link shortfall - http://bourabai.kz/landscheidt/new-e.htm

Imagine if this were a forecast made by the IPCC in 2003 of *extremely* rapid warming to a peak in 2030 - enough to double the warming since the early 19th century - and then there was signicant cooling to 2020.

Hands up who buys it? biggrin




Edited by kerplunk on Wednesday 20th October 19:43


Edited by kerplunk on Wednesday 20th October 19:44

anonymous-user

62 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
It’s hilarious looking back at old PHs climate threads to see how wrong all our PH ‘experts’ have been.
Straw is doing well atm.

The only hilarity arising from experts in error on PH relate to pro-AGW pro-IPCC types with hilarious predictions on non-vanishing arctic summer ice, absence of winter snow, tropical troposphere temperature errors, New York not under water, etc.

The predictionsof solar-eruptivity related cooling from Landscheidt, Abdusamatov and Archibald have approx 10 to 30 years to run (2030 - 2050); your hilarious, over-egged, baselessly smug, serially biased, premature adjudication is showing (again).
Well there's premature adjudication and there's hanging on for grim death to the bitter end isn't there tb thumbup

No premature adjudication whatsoever for Archibald's 2006 prediction of a little ice age by 2020 however - dead as dodo

Landscheidt's little ice age predictions running very late indeed and temps have gone the wrong way - a stunning temperature plunge now required (which isn't what was predicted)

Abdumasatov's sharp temperature decline 2014 - 2050 has more time but off to a bad start with temps going the wrong way again (and no sign of the solar TSI drop required to make it happen).
There was loads more too. None happened.

Tb now making out he didn’t actually make all those predictions on here. laugh

Years of his self congratulatory propaganda, failed predictions and misrepresentation ALL proven to be wrong.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
kerplunk said:
Well there's premature adjudication and there's hanging on for grim death to the bitter end isn't there tb

No premature adjudication whatsoever for Archibald's 2006 prediction of a little ice age by 2020 however - dead as dodo

Landscheidt's little ice age predictions running very late indeed and temps have gone the wrong way - a stunning temperature plunge now required (which isn't what was predicted)
An on-message view made up for the moment, we aren't yet posting in the year 2051 so the only dodos around are in the long list of failed agw predictions.

There are 29 years to 2050 and no stunning anything is needed. The entire agw temperature rise claimed for tax gas over 100 years is around 0.8 deg C. So not stunning it's pedestrian.

Any stunning events that deserve the title are in reality the series of hilarious agw-based predictions which have failed so many times that those still being offered are on their third or fourth date, including but not limited to summer arctic ocean ice not disappearing and New York not going underwater. Warm wet winters from the last century is still being gamely punted after the severe winters between 2009-2017.

El stovey said:
There was loads more too. None happened.

Tb now making out he didn’t actually make all those predictions on here. laugh

Years of his self congratulatory propaganda, failed predictions and misrepresentation ALL proven to be wrong.
Pure fiction and assertion, as usual. The predictions are clearly from scientists such as Abdusamatov and Archibald, and the dates involved are 2030-2050 so nothing has been proven wrong as yet, unlike the many dozens of failed agw predictions. Your transparent and desperate terminological inexactitudes are as obvious as ever, but thanks as always for the flattery of your close attention including the impressive but misguided uppercasery.

There are many mentions on PH over the years of the work from the aforementioned scientists including the Landscheidt paper in Energy & Environment are based on empirical date not gigo built on assumptions and faith. Empirical approaches engender greater confidence, but nothing warrants faith including in particular agw.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
It is indeed a double whammy for COP 26.

Putin was mentioned recently in this thread as not attending and, as I thought, Jinping had also been announced as an absentee.

Jinping
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/china...

Putin
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58977993

With leaders from India and Saudi already reported as staying away, the 25,000 essential travellers will miss thea aforementioned big guns, while missing the updated carbon cutting plans which are still awol along with their various political leaders.

Bacardi

2,235 posts

284 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
Plunky, going back a bit, did you ever come to a conclusion as to why that 70% of Lake Oroville water is flushed out to sea?

dickymint

25,972 posts

266 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
El stovey said:
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
It’s hilarious looking back at old PHs climate threads to see how wrong all our PH ‘experts’ have been.
Straw is doing well atm.

The only hilarity arising from experts in error on PH relate to pro-AGW pro-IPCC types with hilarious predictions on non-vanishing arctic summer ice, absence of winter snow, tropical troposphere temperature errors, New York not under water, etc.

The predictionsof solar-eruptivity related cooling from Landscheidt, Abdusamatov and Archibald have approx 10 to 30 years to run (2030 - 2050); your hilarious, over-egged, baselessly smug, serially biased, premature adjudication is showing (again).
Well there's premature adjudication and there's hanging on for grim death to the bitter end isn't there tb thumbup

No premature adjudication whatsoever for Archibald's 2006 prediction of a little ice age by 2020 however - dead as dodo

Landscheidt's little ice age predictions running very late indeed and temps have gone the wrong way - a stunning temperature plunge now required (which isn't what was predicted)

Abdumasatov's sharp temperature decline 2014 - 2050 has more time but off to a bad start with temps going the wrong way again (and no sign of the solar TSI drop required to make it happen).
There was loads more too. None happened.

Tb now making out he didn’t actually make all those predictions on here. laugh

Years of his self congratulatory propaganda, failed predictions and misrepresentation ALL proven to be wrong.
List of these actual predictions please - shouldn't take you long to trawl through your filing cabinet - Durbs will give you a hand as "it's really easy to find this stuff. We can simply find a ........."

As an aside are they paying double time for flying in all the COP 26 celebs?

Murph7355

38,998 posts

264 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
It is indeed a double whammy for COP 26.

Putin was mentioned recently in this thread as not attending and, as I thought, Jinping had also been announced as an absentee.

Jinping
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/china...

Putin
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58977993

With leaders from India and Saudi already reported as staying away, the 25,000 essential travellers will miss thea aforementioned big guns, while missing the updated carbon cutting plans which are still awol along with their various political leaders.
Utter piss take.

We are going to cripple ourselves economically and the biggest polluters by a very large margin can't be arsed.

Still, we'll be saving the planet.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
dickymint said:
List of these actual predictions please - shouldn't take you long to trawl through your filing cabinet - Durbs will give you a hand as "it's really easy to find this stuff. We can simply find a ........."

As an aside are they paying double time for flying in all the COP 26 celebs?
The collective attempt at a hatchet job from the usual suspects is quite touching. The closer you are to the target, the thicker the flak, and in this case the greater the desperation/panic at agw central.

Dealing with agw part-time using tax, while in a state of Gretaesque panic - it's a good job our politicians are wiser; cooler heads and all that.

turbobloke

108,082 posts

268 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
Utter piss take.

We are going to cripple ourselves economically and the biggest polluters by a very large margin can't be arsed.

Still, we'll be saving the planet.
Thank Gaia for those comforting thoughts.


kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
kerplunk said:
Well there's premature adjudication and there's hanging on for grim death to the bitter end isn't there tb

No premature adjudication whatsoever for Archibald's 2006 prediction of a little ice age by 2020 however - dead as dodo

Landscheidt's little ice age predictions running very late indeed and temps have gone the wrong way - a stunning temperature plunge now required (which isn't what was predicted)
An on-message view made up for the moment, we aren't yet posting in the year 2051 so the only dodos around are in the long list of failed agw predictions.

There are 29 years to 2050 and no stunning anything is needed. The entire agw temperature rise claimed for tax gas over 100 years is around 0.8 deg C. So not stunning it's pedestrian.
From Archibald 2006:

"Based on solar maxima of approximately 50 for solar cycles 24 and 25, a global temperature decline of 1.5°C is predicted to 2020, equating to the experience of the Dalton Minimum."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/253027167...

Maybe it was a typo smile





kerplunk

7,327 posts

214 months

Wednesday 20th October 2021
quotequote all
Bacardi said:
Plunky, going back a bit, did you ever come to a conclusion as to why that 70% of Lake Oroville water is flushed out to sea?
Yes - output exceeding input smile