Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

Author
Discussion

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all


Moray East, latest = June 2021 heritage. Constraints payments, cost to consumers £25m / 6 months to Feb 2022.

Good policy at work. Keep the faith and panic more.

hairykrishna

13,158 posts

202 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
It's happened only once, not at least twice. Where are the others? In your imagination. It didn't work as claimed on the one occasion either.
I was thinking of the time you were claiming a correlation between heavy winter rainfall and solar activity. You were presenting a graph of their smoothed data, published on the "Association of British Drivers" website. A lobbying organisation I believe you were spokesman for. The lead author of the paper some of the data was pulled from described your interpretation as 'nonsense'. Did that not count?

The problem is TB you've been banging the same drum for a very long time now. Over that period, the predictions you rage against have been tracking reality very well. The ones you favour have not. Follow the data.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
hairykrishna said:
turbobloke said:
It's happened only once, not at least twice. Where are the others? In your imagination. It didn't work as claimed on the one occasion either.
I was thinking of the time you were claiming a correlation between heavy winter rainfall and solar activity. You were presenting a graph of their smoothed data, published on the "Association of British Drivers" website. A lobbying organisation I believe you were spokesman for. The lead author of the paper some of the data was pulled from described your interpretation as 'nonsense'. Did that not count?

The problem is TB you've been banging the same drum for a very long time now. Over that period, the predictions you rage against have been tracking reality very well. The ones you favour have not. Follow the data.
Is this correct TB?

Do you have any connections to any lobbying organisations or similar?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
hairykrishna said:
turbobloke said:
It's happened only once, not at least twice. Where are the others? In your imagination. It didn't work as claimed on the one occasion either.
I was thinking of the time you were claiming a correlation between heavy winter rainfall and solar activity.
And there is a correlation, as shown by the data as opposed to mere opinion from an agw support centre. Are you saying you pestered somebody as per durbster, and got an opinion? Awesome.

As usual agw supporters like opinions matching their own, that's not science is it. There's no monopoly on opinion apart of course from the infallibility ho ho ho of IPCC religious agw doctrine.

Try the data again and see the obvious correlation. The periodicity is in keeping with the average length of the solar cycle, maxima occurring 68/69, 79/80, 90/91. As the Sun was active in this period, some cycles are shorter.than average.



Nice attrition looping, after the TOA loop failed we now get a rainfall loop fail.

That said, the revelation of potentially two pests pestering for mere opinions is interesting. A agw support knowledge deficit and chutzpah overload

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
El stovey said:
They sound nuts.
The ad homs and sundry off-topic personal attacks, same old. Some people disagree with you, that's to be expected.

Brunstrom -"here is no excuse for drifting over the limit any more than there is for drifting a knife into someone." Obvious analogy, totally sane. Based on a quote.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
They sound nuts.
The ad homs and sundry off-topic personal attacks, same old. Some people disagree with you, that's to be expected.

Brunstrom -"here is no excuse for drifting over the limit any more than there is for drifting a knife into someone." Obvious analogy, totally sane. Based on a quote.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You’ve just posted an old thread about a policeman?

Is he the one that said you were “crackpots”? rofl

What about the other people also criticising it and saying similar, have you got threads about them too?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
Mere opinion with no credible empirical data behind it is like pro-agw post content in this thread, vacuous.

durbster

10,223 posts

221 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Try the data again and see the obvious correlation. The periodicity is in keeping with the average length of the solar cycle, maxima occurring 68/69, 79/80, 90/91. As the Sun was active in this period, some cycles are shorter.than average.

What data?

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
El stovey said:
https://www.abd.org.uk/

The Alliance of British Drivers is a voluntary organisation promoting the interests and concerns of Britain’s drivers.


About the ABD
Working for you, the motorist

The Alliance of British Drivers is a not-for-profit organisation that is owned and controlled by its members. We are independent and simply represent the views of our members who are representative of the mass of road users in the UK. Anyone can join the ABD so as to help to support our aims.

We promote your views to national and local Government bodies, and provide information to our members and the general public. We try to counter the misinformation spread by many people on the use of private vehicles, and we promote freedom of choice about how you travel.

The ABD is also represented on the Road User Panel of Transport Focus — the independent transport user watchdog.


Example from their website

Taxation

Each year the Government raises over £50 billion in taxes from road users and that’s why we have some of the most expensive fuel in Europe. Only a very small fraction of the money raised is spent on improving our roads (about £7bn). The result — you end up sitting in traffic jams.

Take the chip off your shoulders, join it, it's not expensive, and discover what they are and what they do

dai1983

2,902 posts

148 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
"have you noticed how most car orientated websites now have a section on the ubiquitous 'environment'? You could be forgiven for thinking it is a compulsory subject. It is in fact the latest form of political correctness. Green activists have succeeded in brainwashing many people into accepting that the 'environment' is the new god before whom we must all bow down in submission. Well our environment page is different. Our page does not use the 'environment' as a weapon against drivers, our page tells the truth. Find out how emotive scaremongering about pollution and man-made 'global warming' are being used to intimidate you out of your car."

ABD twitter feed reads a bit like NPE

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
robinessex said:
El stovey said:
https://www.abd.org.uk/

The Alliance of British Drivers is a voluntary organisation promoting the interests and concerns of Britain’s drivers.


About the ABD
Working for you, the motorist

The Alliance of British Drivers is a not-for-profit organisation that is owned and controlled by its members. We are independent and simply represent the views of our members who are representative of the mass of road users in the UK. Anyone can join the ABD so as to help to support our aims.

We promote your views to national and local Government bodies, and provide information to our members and the general public. We try to counter the misinformation spread by many people on the use of private vehicles, and we promote freedom of choice about how you travel.

The ABD is also represented on the Road User Panel of Transport Focus — the independent transport user watchdog.


Example from their website

Taxation

Each year the Government raises over £50 billion in taxes from road users and that’s why we have some of the most expensive fuel in Europe. Only a very small fraction of the money raised is spent on improving our roads (about £7bn). The result — you end up sitting in traffic jams.

Take the chip off your shoulders, join it, it's not expensive, and discover what they are and what they do
Are you in it too?

rofl

It’s quite clear what they are and what they do.

Much like what you two do on here, spread misinformation about climate change and generally get ignored.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
Try the data again and see the obvious correlation. The periodicity is in keeping with the average length of the solar cycle, maxima occurring 68/69, 79/80, 90/91. As the Sun was active in this period, some cycles are shorter.than average.

What data?
Data from more than 600 uk rain gauges through to 2006, represented graphically with time on the horizontal axis.

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
El stovey said:
robinessex said:
El stovey said:
https://www.abd.org.uk/

The Alliance of British Drivers is a voluntary organisation promoting the interests and concerns of Britain’s drivers.


About the ABD
Working for you, the motorist

The Alliance of British Drivers is a not-for-profit organisation that is owned and controlled by its members. We are independent and simply represent the views of our members who are representative of the mass of road users in the UK. Anyone can join the ABD so as to help to support our aims.

We promote your views to national and local Government bodies, and provide information to our members and the general public. We try to counter the misinformation spread by many people on the use of private vehicles, and we promote freedom of choice about how you travel.

The ABD is also represented on the Road User Panel of Transport Focus — the independent transport user watchdog.


Example from their website

Taxation

Each year the Government raises over £50 billion in taxes from road users and that’s why we have some of the most expensive fuel in Europe. Only a very small fraction of the money raised is spent on improving our roads (about £7bn). The result — you end up sitting in traffic jams.

Take the chip off your shoulders, join it, it's not expensive, and discover what they are and what they do
Are you in it too?

rofl

It’s quite clear what they are and what they do.

Much like what you two do on here, spread misinformation about climate change and generally get ignored.
The ABD campaigns for:

More investment in roads
Lower road taxes
No road pricing or tolls
Reduced traffic congestion
Evidence-based road safety
Improved parking provision

ABD Campaign

A summary of the key issues for drivers:

Our objective is to provide an active, responsible voice to lobby on behalf of Britain’s drivers. We believe that official policies in recent years, both from the national Government and from local authorities have discriminated against drivers by means of misleading information, obstruction, restriction, delay and taxation.

It looks as if a few here are in the wrong place, PistonHeads isn't for you. Have you tried Mums Net ?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Much like what you two do on here, spread misinformation about climate change and generally get ignored.
The frequency of your replies, and the frequency of replies from pro-agw metoos, shows you (plural) just can't ignore what credible empirical data in peer reviewed publications shows. Touched nerves demand that replies lack any credible alternative empirical data but come replete with ad homs and other nothingness.

In the last 2 days I've posted statements from and summaries of over 50 peer-reviewed papers to which you and others have provided personal attacks mixed with mere opinion by way of reply. You must find this approach convincing, but it's not - however, continue as you no doubt will as it's good to see nothingness in reply to published research,

hairykrishna

13,158 posts

202 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
And there is a correlation, as shown by the data as opposed to mere opinion from an agw support centre. Are you saying you pestered somebody as per durbster, and got an opinion? Awesome.
No, what I'm saying is that you spent rather a long time avoiding telling us what the data actually was. Then I dropped Prof Osbourne who was lead author of the rainfall data study an email. He pointed out that the data you used was just part of a figure and the decadally-smoothed curve only.

Yes, he expressed the opinion that your conclusion was 'nonsense'.

Got an update? Your figure (with no Y-axis) stops in 1994. The MIDAS rainfall data is still available. I believe at the time you claimed it had been removed.

Edited by hairykrishna on Monday 16th May 13:29

hairykrishna

13,158 posts

202 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
I note the new ABD website has removed the links to 'the electric universe' as one of their science sources hehe

hairykrishna

13,158 posts

202 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
In the last 2 days I've posted statements from and summaries of over 50 peer-reviewed papers to which you and others have provided personal attacks mixed with mere opinion by way of reply. You must find this approach convincing, but it's not - however, continue as you no doubt will as it's good to see nothingness in reply to published research,
Like said, you've been doing this too long and we all know by now that it's a pointless Gish Gallop. If anyone invests the time to point out the flaws or misrepresentation in one of your points or studies you just jump onto the next bullst then come back to the original one at a later date.

kerplunk

7,052 posts

205 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
-Recent temperature rate of change and extent is not unprecedented
Implies what we're seeing now isn't unusual so we can ignore it. So when was the last time this rate of change happened?
I'd like to know where this one comes from too but don't hold your breath waiting for a usable ref from turbobloke.

durbster said:
turbobloke said:
-Arctic expedition1930/31 data 4.6 °C warmer than 1981-2010 with Feb ’31 average 10.7 deg C warmer
Implies the arctic is not warming. Is the arctic warming turbobloke?

Faster than anywhere else on earth perhaps?
I remember this one. It's for a single place in the the arctic (Franz Jospeh Land), winter temps only, and compares a single winter in 1930/31 on FJL to a recent 30yr average so not very informative of climate change in the arctic, either spatially or temporally and certainly not something you could use to claim the arctic was warmer in 1930s than today - not without looking like a sham 'empiricist' anyway biggrin

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00704-0...

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 16th May 2022
quotequote all
kerplunk said:
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
-Recent temperature rate of change and extent is not unprecedented
Implies what we're seeing now isn't unusual so we can ignore it. So when was the last time this rate of change happened?
I'd like to know where this one comes from too but don't hold your breath waiting for a usable ref from turbobloke.
The 50+ recent examples make you think that? Sensible comment there kerplunk.

It's been removed , it was from UEA.

durbster said:
turbobloke said:
-Arctic expedition1930/31 data 4.6 °C warmer than 1981-2010 with Feb ’31 average 10.7 deg C warmer
Implies the arctic is not warming. Is the arctic warming turbobloke?

Faster than anywhere else on earth perhaps?
kerplunk said:
I remember this one...
It's 'hotter 30s' so lump it then explain it using much lower carbon dioxide levels (effects are global and dominantremember), an instant fail.

Heathrow Airport's tarmac/concerte/jetwash temperature sensor a single location beyond all others.

Still nothing new on offer from agw central.