Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

[Diderot]

Randy Winkman said:

Ivan stewart said:

Biker 1 said:

Ridiculous isn't it?
My local Sainsbury's has an entire aisle dedicated to plant based food, including fake burgers & 'meat' - the packaging & in your face advertising signage must have used up more hydrocarbons than the supposed offset against genuine meat, & that's before we consider all the other additives to make this stuff. Interestingly, it appears to be the quietest aisle in the supermarket.
I live in the sticks & will probably take to hunting if this crap gets much worse.

I’d prefer it if you’d stay in the town and Hunt vegans instead !!!

Packaging, signs and additives? Does meat-based food not have that? And before you say, "it doesn't at my local butchers/farm shop", neither would veg at the local greengrocers/farm shop.

We buy all our meat, fish and veg from local suppliers. I haven’t set foot in a supermarket since before the pandemic - we get a Waitrose delivery for the other stuff.

[J210]

Cut down old established trees to fight climate change by putting a bus route in. got it

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/2...

[turbobloke]

Randy Winkman said:

Ivan stewart said:

Biker 1 said:

Ridiculous isn't it?
My local Sainsbury's has an entire aisle dedicated to plant based food, including fake burgers & 'meat' - the packaging & in your face advertising signage must have used up more hydrocarbons than the supposed offset against genuine meat, & that's before we consider all the other additives to make this stuff. Interestingly, it appears to be the quietest aisle in the supermarket.
I live in the sticks & will probably take to hunting if this crap gets much worse.

I’d prefer it if you’d stay in the town and Hunt vegans instead !!!

Packaging, signs and additives? Does meat-based food not have that? And before you say, "it doesn't at my local butchers/farm shop", neither would veg at the local greengrocers/farm shop.

It's relevant to resource management and preventing food waste during storage and in transit, but the carbon dioxide aspect is irrelevant. When the available credible empirical evidence is examined within the scientific method, the conclusions are as folliows (in case you missed it last time rather thanl looked the other way). Even so, as this is the climate politics thread, the point that our government is taking us down a pointless but harmful and costly path is certainly relevant.

Atmosphere science specialists Prof Lindzen and Prof Happer in Challenging Net Zero With Science said:

• Scientific research and studies that do not support the “consensus” narrative of harmful
man-made global warming are routinely censored and excluded from government
reports such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the National
Climate Assessments.
• Conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that contradict the
narrative of catastrophic global warming from fossil fuels are rewriten by government
bureaucrats for public reports to support the false narrative of Net Zero.
• The many benefits of modest warming and increasing carbon dioxide are routinely
either eliminated or minimized in governmental reports.
• Eliminating fossil fuels and implementing Net Zero policies and actions mean the
elimination of fossil fuel-derived nitrogen fertllizers and pesticides that will result in
about half the world’s population not having enough food to eat. Many would starve.
• The adoption of Net Zero is the rejection of overwhelming scientific evidence that there
is no risk of catastrophic global warming caused by fossil fuels and CO2

Maybe the evidence will be sticky this time.

[turbobloke]

Shell has noted in The Times (22 March) that Net Zero is unlikely to be realised before 2100. Shell as a corporate is quite hot on climate, no pun inetnded.

That must be an extraordinarily optimistic place to work. Chances of Net Zero by then, aside from exporting tax gas numbers and similar adjustments, are close to zero without the net.

Getting politicians to that point where reality dawns, given ego issues and tax / control potential remaining plus the fashion factor for electability, can only happen through the long slog of baby steps. Part and parcel of going mad quickly in herds and recovering sanity slowly, one at a time.

ETA The latest UN emissions may well have been warmly received at the BBC and Guardian but global warmth to the scary report is absent.

UN climate study proves the fight to lower global temps won’t work
Editorial, New York Post, 20 March 2023

The UN’s ‘scientific’ climate report is nothing more than confected hysteria
The Daily Telegraph, 21 March 2021

The UN is a climate "Disinformation Threat Actor"
Public Substack, 20 March 2023

Climate hysteria is a luxury belief we can no longer afford
Spiked, 21 March 2023

UN report predicting climate catastrophe in 2030 met with mockery.
Fox News, 20 March 2023


2030-2050 will be interesting in terms of being able to review Abdusamatov and Landscheidt published science, but if spared long enough we can only wait and see .

Edited by turbobloke on Wednesday 22 March 12:29

[Biker 1]

Randy Winkman said:

Packaging, signs and additives? Does meat-based food not have that? And before you say, "it doesn't at my local butchers/farm shop", neither would veg at the local greengrocers/farm shop.

I was surprised by the amount of packaging on all these 'green' plant based fake burgers etc. The signage was hanging from the ceiling on big plastic advertising & lit up with some snazzy lighting. I'm not familiar with all the ingredients for these trendy vegan things, but it all looked like a bit of a fad & I would be very surprised if the carbon footprint is much different to genuine meat.
Reminded me a bit of eating kosher: in Israel you can buy reconstituted kosher fish formed into a fake prawn with the help of food colourings, preservatives & flavour enhancers - all seemed to go against the spirit of the thing......

[hairykrishna]

Biker 1 said:

Ridiculous isn't it?
My local Sainsbury's has an entire aisle dedicated to plant based food, including fake burgers & 'meat' - the packaging & in your face advertising signage must have used up more hydrocarbons than the supposed offset against genuine meat, & that's before we consider all the other additives to make this stuff. Interestingly, it appears to be the quietest aisle in the supermarket.
I live in the sticks & will probably take to hunting if this crap gets much worse.

It'd need a lot of advertising tat. Meat, and food in general, is pretty CO2 heavy.

Printing, on paper, is ~a few g of CO2-eq per sq meter. PVC foam board is ~6kg CO2-eq/m2.

Each kg of pork takes something like 10kg CO2-eq to produce, similar for poultry. Beef's worse, but it's hard to fix numbers because it's so skewed by the Americans habit of keeping cows in car parks and feeding them corn.

Even a stty fake meat like quorn only requires ~4kg CO2-eq/kg so you don't need to reduce many peoples meat intake, by very much, to print a shed load of annoying signs. Life's too short though. All this stuff is wking around the edges. Decarbonise electricity, switch as many industries and transport to electrical as is feasible and nobody has to eat fking jackfruit 'burgers'.

[turbobloke]

Political advocacy group IPCC has had an Assessment assessment and it's just in.

Click

[Randy Winkman]

Diderot said:

Randy Winkman said:

Ivan stewart said:

Biker 1 said:

Ridiculous isn't it?
My local Sainsbury's has an entire aisle dedicated to plant based food, including fake burgers & 'meat' - the packaging & in your face advertising signage must have used up more hydrocarbons than the supposed offset against genuine meat, & that's before we consider all the other additives to make this stuff. Interestingly, it appears to be the quietest aisle in the supermarket.
I live in the sticks & will probably take to hunting if this crap gets much worse.

I’d prefer it if you’d stay in the town and Hunt vegans instead !!!

Packaging, signs and additives? Does meat-based food not have that? And before you say, "it doesn't at my local butchers/farm shop", neither would veg at the local greengrocers/farm shop.

We buy all our meat, fish and veg from local suppliers. I haven’t set foot in a supermarket since before the pandemic - we get a Waitrose delivery for the other stuff.

Yes - I thought you'd say that; hence the second sentence of my post above. Vegetables don't come out of the ground with packaging and additives and can be bought without them too.

[turbobloke]

Article on UN report from across the pond said:

The alarmist frenzy was joined by prominent scientists, eco-activists, Democratic politicians and even the UN chief himself, who called the report a “how-to guide to defuse the climate time-bomb.

In other words, the media, elites and the scientific establishment want you to take this report very, very seriously. The problem is no one who actually cares about sound science should give it the time of day.

Click

Elites

Politics not science, shirley shome mishtake.

[durbster]

turbobloke said:

Article on UN report from across the pond said:

The alarmist frenzy ...

We wouldn't want to be alarmist would we.

Ivan stewart said:

So we are going to be locked into the country live and die in the same area and we will have to huddle in rabbit hutch homes and live simple lives , basically how most people lived pre industrial revolution???

Ivan stewart said:

I guess the only thing that will stop this absurdity is a world war ??

turbobloke said:

We were warned via a climate mitigation symposium years back, which turned into a go-vegan-and-let's-all-regress-to-a-hunter-gatherer-society fest. That told us all about what's planned. To save the planet we must regress to a localised medieval lifestyle.

Pan Pan Pan said:

Albeit, getting people in third world countries to accept the better lifestyles experienced by those living in first world countries is going to be a bit easier (At least as long as the resources needed for all the world to enjoy those first world lifestyles exist). After that it will be back to the usual human practice of fighting for resources. Soylent Green anyone?

turbobloke said:

Biker 1 said:

Basically the only way to get to zero is to go back to medieval times - there is simply no other option according to the study. The trouble is that most of today's huge global population would simply starve/freeze to death within weeks.

Quite right. Such bizarre and baseless suggestions would lead to a localised medieval lifestyle with millions of deaths on the menu.

[Kawasicki]

“The overt politicization of science, of which these editorials are only one manifestation, seems to be damaging the institution“

Sad really.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/22/...

[turbobloke]

Kawasicki said:

“The overt politicization of science, of which these editorials are only one manifestation, seems to be damaging the institution“

Sad really.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/22/...

Definitely. Hence the term being used by those working on climate in the USA, who weren't / aren't joined at the hip to the advocacy group IPCC and its workings, to describe those who are: Federal scientists.

https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scienti...

[turbobloke]

Don't mention it.

Growing backlash over climate policies causes German govt crisis
Politico, 23 March 2023

Germany rejects EU Commission’s proposal for ending ICE car ban impasse
Politico, 23 March 2023

German government in crisis over EU ban on car combustion engines
The Guardian 23 March 2023

German government in crisis amid boiler ban controversy
Euractiv, 23 March 2023

Did Germany just kill the electric car?
Energy Monitor, 23 March 2023

Go Dutch.

Dutch farmers on collision course with Brussels over compulsory farm buyouts
The Daily Telegraph, 23 March 2023


The plan is going swimmingly.

[Kawasicki]

The Greens in Germany.

Voted in to deliver net zero.

Show their concrete measures to do so, public says “Nein“ and they plummet in the polls.

It’s the difference between what feels like a nice idea and painful specific actions to actually deliver.

Two ways forward to head quickly towards net zero.

Stop using democracy or start using carrot approach and tech.
Carrots and tech cost money.

[Kawasicki]

Interesting read on the cult of the climate apocalypse…

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/26/the-cult-...

[PRTVR]

Kawasicki said:

Interesting read on the cult of the climate apocalypse…

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/26/the-cult-...

Thanks for posting that, we have been pointing this fact out for years on here .
Here is a YouTube video on climate change in education, basically telling lies, the comments make for interesting reading , the Latin for polar bear converted to English is sea bear, known for swimming up to 50kh from shore.
https://youtu.be/ESjJyAp8vrY

A while back I commented on my granddaughter coming home and telling us all about climate change, this is at 8 years old, indoctrination starts young…. Last week we had bought a maths book to help her at home, when we tried her with some examples she was struggling, she couldn’t even recite her 2 times table, so sad, the only hope for her is a climate scientist as you just make it up as they go along.

[turbobloke]

Putting their all-consuming panic over local global warming cooling climate chaos change aside, the EU has agreed not to ban the sale of cars with internal combustion engines after 2035. Germany ftw. Ice melting away but not is a bit of a thing these days, Glacier National Park car park etc.

Over to you Mr Sunak. Net Zero by 2500, maybe.

[Randy Winkman]

turbobloke said:

Putting their all-consuming panic over local global warming cooling climate chaos change aside, the EU has agreed not to ban the sale of cars with internal combustion engines after 2035. Germany ftw. Ice melting away but not is a bit of a thing these days, Glacier National Park car park etc.

Over to you Mr Sunak. Net Zero by 2500, maybe.

I'd say that's in recognition of the fact that global agreements are hard or impossible to get than because there is no need to try to do so.

[turbobloke]

[ant1973]

Our political system is largely self-correcting.

No one is going to vote themselves substantially poorer.

The consequences of the war in Ukraine is nothing but a preview of what net zero looks like. KPMG have said as much today - and that's assuming no further energy shocks.

Net zero's success largely depends on either a) a complete change in our way of life (and not for the better); or b) the invention of technology that does not exist at present to continue as we have.

You can tell folk that the world is going to end in 30 years time, but they won't believe until it directly affects them.

Eventually they will vote for people who promise to make them richer (or at least no less well off).

What happens when people democratically reject the climate agenda?

Interesting times.